Winter driving - Fit weaknesses

[zukered]

Well, thanks to a 2-month long transit strike, I've been forced to drive through almost every winter condition imaginable--freezing rain, black ice, slush, heavy snow, and temperatures as low as -35°C. I love my Fit but it has some definite winter weaknesses:

- even with winter tires on, it'll skid or lose traction even on small amounts of snow, either when stopping or accelerating from a stop. I was surprised, to be frank; I've previously driven a '96 Neon with winter tires, and it wasn't that big a problem (the Neon was an A/T though). Is the Fit really *that* light that it floats over a bit of snow?

- OEM wipers and blades streak really badly after about 25 minutes in wet snowfall. I think melted snow/wiper fluid gets into the flexing joints/coil/ spring and freezes, so the middle of the blades aren't getting pressed onto the glass like it should. Thankfully more a problem on the passenger-side wiper

- windshield defroster can't keep up with me and three passengers when it's below -25°C

- Mine's the non-Sport trim, but road clearance is still lower than expected on 14" wheels. About five times now I've spotted a chunk of wheel-well ice ahead and couldn't safely evade. They probably sat just a bit higher than a baseball would, and every time I passed over one I would feel it hit and scrape the bottom of the car--argh! I'm worried one might have dented or damaged something, but the dealer reported no issues when I took it in for its first oil change last week.

Anyone else encounter these winter issues?

[Fit of RAGE]

really???

Up here in vancouver, bc canada, we've had the most snow in like...20 years. I towed a Yaris out of the ditch!! I'm rolling on 14" Michelin X-Ices on steelies. I've had NO issues at all! I can't even slide much if i pull on teh park brake.


I do have to agree with you tho, the defrost sucks

[polaski]

Yup pretty much all of them. I'm still on the OEM dunlops though. Only way I have any usable traction is letting the air down to 30 psi. Any more and it's like slicks.

I have grease in the rear wiper joints to keep it from freezing up, which has worked like a charm, but the fronts are a lost cause. They work really well until the snow works its way in like you said and then they streak.

As for the ice chunks in the road, every time it's the same-- "Ooooooooh crap-" WHACK!thunk "aww man"

Let's not forget the rear hatch freezing shut. Oh yeah THAT was a treat. Hint- don't pull, just push hard all around the outside until it lets go. That handle is plastic (and now for me it rattles).

[zukered]

Originally Posted by Fit of RAGE

Up here in vancouver, bc canada, we've had the most snow in like...20 years. I towed a Yaris out of the ditch!! I'm rolling on 14" Michelin X-Ices on steelies. I've had NO issues at all! I can't even slide much if i pull on teh park brake.

I've got the same winter tires--14" X-Ices on OEM steel wheels (yes, I've checked ). I've not actually gotten stuck in snow, though I came close once; tried taking a residential alley after the first big snowfall, misjudged the height of the snow between the two existing tire tracks and went too slowly onto it.

Are you driving automatic or manual? For M/Ts, I was led to believe it's better to start in 2nd if on a slippery surface, to avoid wheel spin. It seems to help a bit, but it tends to jerk to the right nonetheless before it gets good traction.

[zukered]

Originally Posted by polaski

Yup pretty much all of them. I'm still on the OEM dunlops though. Only way I have any usable traction is letting the air down to 30 psi. Any more and it's like slicks.

Interesting... I've heard that if you're on ice you want more surface area (so less tire pressure), so you have more surface area to grip with, but on snow you want less surface area (more pressure) so more weight is pressed per unit area. My problem is generally more on snow, are my tires are under-inflated?

I have grease in the rear wiper joints to keep it from freezing up, which has worked like a charm, but the fronts are a lost cause. They work really well until the snow works its way in like you said and then they streak.

I'm wondering if a simple blade replacement is good enough--the flexing joints on them is a good idea in theory (rather than the more common free-flexing blades), but were probably designed for snow-less Japan.

Let's not forget the rear hatch freezing shut. Oh yeah THAT was a treat. Hint- don't pull, just push hard all around the outside until it lets go. That handle is plastic (and now for me it rattles).

Hasn't happened to me yet; thankfully I have underground parking where I live. Though that raises another winter annoyance: since the windshield defroster can't dehumidify well enough, parking outside I sometimes come back in the late afternoon/evening to find the *inside* of the windows all iced up. The ice chipper isn't designed to scrape inside, so I have to wait at least five minutes for the engine to warm up enough to melt away the frost.

This also wasn't something that happened with the Neon... but that was parked in an above-ground garage (i.e. barely warmer than the air outside), so any snow tracked in never had a chance to melt and humidify the cabin.

[wdb]

This is very timely. I just drove my Fit through a significant snowstorm, by accident because I'm supposed to be driving my AWD Subie when it snows. I made it home but oh boy was I happy to get there. The Fit seemed less than competent in that weather, but I thought it was just me because I was spoiled by my Subie, which has AWD + 3 limited slip diffs + winter wipers + winter tires.

Traction pretty much sucked. I'm on the stock Dunlops that come on the Sport model, plus I really miss my LS diffie. I felt really lucky to make it through some of the tough spots I encountered, from a traction standpoint. I'm sorry to hear that winter tires do not seem to help because I was counting on them making the car significantly better in snow.

Agree on the wipers; I'm looking at basically throwing the stockers away and getting something decent like Bosch Icons. For me, visibility is critical not just in winter but anytime.

I have a Beatrush front undertray so I'm not terribly worried about running over 'clunkers'. Plus it provides better gas mileage (about 2MPG better for me) and it plants the front end to the road at speed, so it's a real plus IMO.

Haven't had trouble with the defroster not keeping up yet but then I'm almost always the only person in the car. I might suggest making sure the AC is running, it may help with drying out the air and clearing the windows faster.

[kenchan]

well, the first issue in canada is that you dont use as many snow trucks and road salt like we do here.... so you're probably better off with a AWD and run snow tires in the winter time up there.

goodluck.

in IL, my wife has yet to complain about my GE8 with W60 snow tires. and she was driving my AWD legacy only a few months ago.

[mahout]

[quote=zukered;572444]Interesting... I've heard that if you're on ice you want more surface area (so less tire pressure), so you have more surface area to grip with, but on snow you want less surface area (more pressure) so more weight is pressed per unit area. My problem is generally more on snow, are my tires are under-inflated?


On ice and snow surfaces it's pressure, not area, that counts. Having a narrower section (thus tread width typically) and slightly higher tire pressures are the trick.
The increase in contact pressure between the tread and deformable road surface assists in the tread 'digging into' the surface, which of course aids traction. Think of it rolling on hard foam rubber.
Greater width tires lower that contact pressure and that reduces grip. The same rules apply equally well in rain. Higher tire pressure helps keep the tread grooves open and easier shedding of snow/ice impacted into the grooves. Of course when you have more than 50% worn tires you're out of luck.
Slightly greater tire diameter also helps by reducing the angle which the tire must climb over the surface as it rolls forward in the snow. Ice of course, matters less but even then the tire must climb over a small ridge of ice formed at the point of contact in front of the tread.

Part of the Fit sliding so easily when you try to stop and turn ever so slightly is the tremendous oversteer of Fits.
PS at -35C (-31 F) nothing should work right so count yourself lucky anything does.

[F0NIX]

My Jazz with CVT is the best car I have driven in wintertime. I can even get up steeper and more slippery hills than our firms Toyota Hicas that have 4x4 drive...
It can even drive in circles around the car I drive in my work: Toyota Yaris Verso. That is the WORST car I have driven in the wintertime. Today I had to get new front tires for the Yaris to stop spinning wheels on even flat winterroads...

We dont have that extreme cold here in my area (even if I live far north of the polar circle). But we can have some snow (up to 240cm). Most of the time the weather changes from snow and cold (-5°C) to mild (+5°C) and wet weather all winter...

But I agree that the windshield defroster is not the fastes I've seen. But it is probably a little diffrent on my car since I have automatic AC (electronic controlled).

[dyussen]

Originally Posted by zukered

Well, thanks to a 2-month long transit strike, I've - even with winter tires on, it'll skid or lose traction even on small amounts of snow, either when stopping or accelerating from a stop. I was surprised,
- OEM wipers and blades streak really badly after about 25 minutes in wet
- windshield defroster can't keep up with me and three passengers when it's below -25°C
- Mine's the non-Sport trim, but road clearance is still lower than expected on 14" wheels. About five times now I've spotted a chunk of wheel-well ice
Anyone else encounter these winter issues?

It may well depend on the size and make of snow tires you got. I bought Bridgestone Blizzaks and have driven in 2 Minnesota winters with them, including heavy snow driving on the Superior North Shore and Gunflint Trail and love it. I can drive through anything. The only thing I notice is the ABS kicks on when braking way more frequently than my last car. Not sure if that's due to the car weight being so light that it loses traction more easily over bumpy road.

Ditto on the OEM wipers. They totally suck, and I've had the same problem on the passenger side. Next winter I'm definitely going to put on Trico Winter blades and save the regular ones for summer.

Road clearance is certainly low but I've found this helpful at times. With my 08 Sport, the front bumper doubles as a snow plow for my driveway. ;-)

[Daemione]

I got rid of the OEM wiper blades within a week of buying my Fit. Granted, they could very well be the original ones & have been long overdue for replacement - but yeah, they sucked.

I bought some generic frameless ones off of eBay, they're great.


Zukered - what size winter tires are you running? The car is light, yes - but that just means you run skinnier tires. I've got 175 widths on right now, and it's almost as competent in blizzard weather as my Prelude is/was with 185 & 195 width snow tires.

In my opinion, any disadvantage in snow from the light(ish) weight of the Fit is more than made up by it's predictable behavior and "recoverability" when it does slide.

[airborne200208]

Winter driving - Bad driver litmus test.







Just saying.

[zukered]

Originally Posted by Daemione

I got rid of the OEM wiper blades within a week of buying my Fit. Granted, they could very well be the original ones & have been long overdue for replacement - but yeah, they sucked.

I was suitably impressed with them when I was driving in the summer/fall--but my basis for comparison were the cheap wipers from Canadian Tire my father put on the family minivan and Neon. Still, my OEMs were streak-free up 'til winter weather.

Zukered - what size winter tires are you running?

They're the same profile as the non-Sport all-seasons: P175/65R14

[der Mond]

The main frustration I have is that starting out on slick roads is so slow due to the quick wheelspin, particularly since the car is so nice and punchy from the start. I have Pirelli Winter Carving studded tires which are pretty great, I don't get stuck unless I'm stupid. It IS a light car, but has great directional stability and the ABS and EBD work great when I need brakes. Just need to feather that quick throttle. In those slushy temps I don't know of any car that doesn't get those windshhield wiper issues, so I learned finally just to pop the wipers off at night and keep them indoors until the next morning. Last winter I had a rear gas shock on the tailgate fail when we had a -40 streak. It IS low to the ground, lower than a '87 Porsche 911 I once had for sure! That can be a pain. This morning I heard a noise and found out that something had bent my front disc brake backing plate against the rotor. Never heard the rock or ice or whatever. Anyone had that happen? I'll just have to take a screwdriver and bend it back off the rotor.

[Sugarphreak]

I am finding my car loves to slide and spin despite my toyo snowtires. It feels like I am piloting a boat sometimes when it gets icy out.

I find the car is a bit too light for 195 snow tires, I think my next set of snow tires will be narrower.

[mahout]

Originally Posted by der Mond

The main frustration I have is that starting out on slick roads is so slow due to the quick wheelspin, particularly since the car is so nice and punchy from the start. I have Pirelli Winter Carving studded tires which are pretty great, I don't get stuck unless I'm stupid. It IS a light car, but has great directional stability and the ABS and EBD work great when I need brakes. Just need to feather that quick throttle. In those slushy temps I don't know of any car that doesn't get those windshhield wiper issues, so I learned finally just to pop the wipers off at night and keep them indoors until the next morning. Last winter I had a rear gas shock on the tailgate fail when we had a -40 streak. It IS low to the ground, lower than a '87 Porsche 911 I once had for sure! That can be a pain. This morning I heard a noise and found out that something had bent my front disc brake backing plate against the rotor. Never heard the rock or ice or whatever. Anyone had that happen? I'll just have to take a screwdriver and bend it back off the rotor.

Try starting out in second or even third gear to avoid the sudden thrust.

[der Mond]

I'll try starting out in second gear, thanks. I should mention that I run around six pounds less in the rear tires, 32 front, 26 rear. It evens out the handling a bit and no increase in tire wear.

[NMG]

My defroster can be a little slow, but if I scrape the windows it can keep up fine. I do find that the back interior windows can ice over a bit but that happens to every car I've ever owned in the winter.

As for handling, I have no issues to report. Sure it can spin the tires and slide around a little, but it is winter and snow and ice is slippery

I'm running Nokian WRG2's and the only time I feel concerned is in deep wet snow, deep enough that I'll get high centered that is. There have been days where I haven't taken the car out in those conditions because I knew it would get stuck. Any other conditions, even with deep powdery snow, I've had no problems whatsoever. You just have to adjust your driving and remember that it's winter. No agressive starts, no agressive stops and no quick or erratic turns. There isn't a winter tire in the world that will make you car behave like it does in the summer on dry roads.

[zukered]

Originally Posted by NMG

You just have to adjust your driving and remember that it's winter. No agressive starts, no agressive stops and no quick or erratic turns. There isn't a winter tire in the world that will make you car behave like it does in the summer on dry roads.

Agreed on all counts. I'm not intentionally aggressive on starts, but have to remember to start from 2nd more often.

I definitely slow before a stop early on, even in the summer--one thing I can't stand when I'm stopped at a light are the aggressive stoppers who don't even let off the throttle until three seconds before they stop. Not only are they wasting gas, I see them coming up fast in my mirror and worry they won't be able to stop in time.

[NMG]

Originally Posted by zukered

I definitely slow before a stop early on, even in the summer--one thing I can't stand when I'm stopped at a light are the aggressive stoppers who don't even let off the throttle until three seconds before they stop

LOL, I hear you on that. The classic "whiplash" driver syndrome. Hammer the gas when starting and hammer the brakes when stopping

As an aside, I find that starting in 1st usually isn't an issue as long as you shift into second fairly quickly. Low revs are definitely your friend in winter.