Gotcha. I have been playing with stuff in the garage (and barn, and driveway, and beside the road, and motor pool, and German woods, and Saudi/Kuwaiti/Iraqi desert) since I was 5, and understand perfectly.

 

You are gonna be hard pressed to get an alignment covered under warrantee anywhere, as alignment can get pushed out of place by road-harzards or potholes

 

Hi all, I see this thread is a year old and I'm in the 1st generation Fit forum but thought I would add my recent post from the Edmunds Fit blog. I think Honda has a design problem and some of us owners are paying for it. The US Honda customer service rep called back today to say he was sympathetic but could not do anything for me. I'm not very motivated to buy another Honda. Cravat Emptor.

"Hi Fit freaks, This is my first post and I'm trying to revive this old thread. I bought a 09 Fit Sport back in fall 2008 also. And I just discovered I have the same issue as fithopeful.
I just took the car in to the dealer for it's second scheduled service interval at 14,200 miles. Tire rotations were done both times, first at 7,000 mi. The tread depth measurements both times show that the front tires wear 2/32 per 7,000 mi. while the back tires are wearing 4/32 over the same distance. Had they not been rotated the REAR tires would be worn to replacement (2/32) at 14K mi. I am a very moderate driver, usually trying to coax good gas milage from the car and average 36-37 with a high of 43.
I took the car back to the dealer who put the car on the alignment rack and found left rear toe-in to be 3.5mm; outside the 0 to 2.5mm spec. The tires are feathered on the outsides. Despite these conditions the handling is fine and the car tracks straight with no vibration or other indication of a problem so this all was surprising.
The rub is that the rear suspension is not adjustable. The dealer offered to pay for an aftermarket shim kit to bring it into spec if I paid $150 for installation. I called American Honda Customer Service who took down my story and assigned a case number. A rep called back and said Honda could not endorse aftermarket fixes and had no recommendation. He said there was no way to prove when this mis-alignment took place. I said the service records and no recollection of road damage strongly indicate it was delivered out of spec. He ask for a week to fully investigate and talk to the dealer before a final determination... the tone was generally "forget any help here"... and that's were it lies now.
I really hate the thought of replacing an otherwise fine little vehicle (with many non recoverable accessories) or get involved in a legal battle, but after 20 years of loyal and happy Honda ownership I am Pissed. So, anybody else out there with abnormal tire wear on the rear? Stand up and be counted!
I will be watching for replies.... Thanks."

 

We've seen a couple of these. One was fixed by squaring up the axle with the chassis and the other by shimming the one errant side after squaring up the axle.
You didn't mention what the toe was on the other rear wheel but if it was little toe-in or was toe-out all that was needed was to adjust the axle mounting so the toe was equal or close to it on both sides. IOW, square up the axle to the chassis centerline.
If that wasn't possible then the wheel hub back plate must be shimmed to the axle plate, a bit extensive and time-consuming, hence costly.
I suspect the dealer was aware that the axle was not square and he could square it up fairly easily.
As far as Honda is concerned, if they don't know when the misalignment occurred it could easily be you rammed a curb.

 

I lowered my car only to find out there is no way to align the rear at all. Well, there is. The rear axle is just a stub axle, held on by 4 bolts. I had mine off in about 30 minutes, if that, per side. Take it to a competent machine shop. They can take the stub axle and machine the flat side so when it bolts back up it will be in spec. I bought new stub axles for this in case I install my original suspension components back in. But it works like a champ!

 

Whoa. its not that simple. you must take measurements of the toe and camber very carefuilly and then calculate the shims required at the 4 bolt locations to bring the toe and camber correctly. Then check the result with the Fit fully streetable, even after driving a mile or two. More than likely you'll have to do it twice.
Maching the back side of the hub is bad news: if you screwed up the measurements of didn't quite get the new assembly same as the original your hub is now junk. A plate shim is much preferred. Again machined by a machine shop but replaceable or remachined.

 

wow!!!!

$200 is better....about an hour per side....parts?.....$20 MAX

 

One hour per side won't cut it.
First you have to make sure the axle is squared up to tne chassis centerline. Then you have to accurately measure the camber and toe of the car stationed and acclimated on a level alignment platform. Then you have to calculate the change in position of the hub to the axle plate very carefully, to 3 decimal places. It won't be the same for every car.
Then remove the hub from the plate and install washers to the calculated thickness at each of the 4 bolts separately and reassemble. Check the toe and camber again to see if its now OK. More likely its not and minor changes are needed so there's perhaps another trial. Once the toe on both sides is close to the same, you then machine a wedge plate to provide the shimming required. Reassemble again and recheck the alignment which should be pretty good.
Our job guide says thats minimum 6 hours work involving 1.5 mechanics. Even $350 may be a trifle light. Unless you stick with the washers $20 won't parts like machining a wedge plate either. One inch OD washers work though althogfh getting the washer stack to the right thicknesses may take some time.

 

Thanks for the reply mahout, here's the final outcome for other owners reference:
American Honda - Three conversations and they talked to the dealer. Result was a sympathetic ear and complaint duly noted but no compensation or advice.
Riverdale, UT. dealer Ken Garff - Two return visits and two telephone conversations after 14K mile service.
I asked for: 1. Them (as the Honda "official face") to cover all parts and labor to install aftermarket shim kit to align the right rear wheel (only one out of spec)
2. Compensate me for the excess tire wear that they failed to report as well as identify the alignment problem (despite being checklist items); two new tires.
Dealer agreed to: Fix the alignment per #1, but no to new tires.
I recommend all new Fit owners be watching rear tire wear for this potential problem.

 

Did you share with us the original toe and camber on both rear wheels?

We'd all like to hear what aftermarket kit the dealer wanted to use. Though we measured only 4 different Fits rear alignment, not one was the same (so a aftermarket kit was not possible) and yes 2 had both rears in spec but not square.

 

Uhhh, "buyer of necktie?" (Sorry, I usually let those kinds of things pass but that was too funny.)

And, for mahout's sake:

A pretty thorough accounting, wouldn't you agree?

Do you mean original as in "as delivered new"? I have never heard of anyone having those numbers, nor would I expect to have to ask for them at delivery. What I would expect is that the car delivered to the customer within factory specs, period.

This guy bought a car in good faith and has numbers that clearly show an out of spec condition that is directly costing him money. If Honda can't prove owner causation, they are bound by federal law (Moss-Ferguson Act I think is the statute) to fix it at their cost.

 

NOT THE 'AS-DELIVERED' TOE; THE TOE MEASURED ON both WHEELS when they checked it..
ONE MEASURED 3.5 MM;TOE-IN OR OUT? AND WHAT WAS THE TOE ON THE OTHER REAR WHEEL. AND IN OR OUT? Its important to compare the two and see if squaring the axle to the chassis cures the problem.
And under the MF law I thinkyou will find its up to the owner to show he's not at fault.

 

Thanks for the comments folks. The work is scheduled to be done Tue 11 May. I ask for the alignment report last visit but didn't get it. I will insure I get a "final" one and voice my concern that the rear toe and camber match (square axel). I did mention axel miss-alignment as a possibility to the service manager previously and he agreed but replied only the LR out of spec.

 

You need to know the toe on each side, not the total amount of toe-in (or out). If the right side has zero toe and the other side has negative (toe-in) of -.3 it will appear to be out yet if the axle is NOT perpendicular to the chassis centerline and undamaged it is a fairly simple matter to bring both sides in spec by 'squaring' the axle so both sides have -.15.
It is possible to adjust the axle by a competent alignment specialist.
If the axle won't bring it in line and you have to change toe by shimming the hub to the axle plate $350 is generous.

 

I looked, and I found exactly the opposite. Magnuson-Moss (that's the right name) places the burden of proof on the issuer of the warranty, not the recipient.
Please let us know how it works out.

 

My copy says otherwise. And court case law says also.