Right rear alignment problem

piperpiperpiper · #1 (**permalink**) 05-06-2009, 11:34 AM

I just got my car back from Firestone, they said they could not fix the right rear alignment as the rear axle is fixed and cannot be adjusted. They did rotate and balance my tires, but I'm wondering what I can do to fix the issue. I am thinking about calling a local Honda dealership, but was going to ask here as well. Any ideas? I know at least a few other members have had this problem. My car has never been wrecked and has always been driven carefully.

kenchan · #2 (**permalink**) 05-06-2009, 11:56 AM

can you post up some measurements firestone took?

you can get shim kits for the car but it's a pita to install imho just to make it look good on paper. if your car tracks straight and drives normal, tires are wearing pretty evenly... let it be.

my rear alignment has very aggressive toe-in but my tires wear pretty flat and even. im not worried.

piperpiperpiper · #3 (**permalink**) 05-06-2009, 12:28 PM

Rear: Right
Camber Actual -1.4 Before -1.4. Specified Range -2.5, -0.5.
Toe Actual .32 Before .33. Specified Range .00, .20

Does that help?

-joshua

GD3_Wagoon · #4 (**permalink**) 05-06-2009, 12:42 PM

i wouldn't worry about that. if it bugs you that much you can have your rears shimmed like kenchan recommended.

FYI, i was quoted $350 (labor only) to get my rears shimmed - that's with the friend discount already applied.

piperpiperpiper · #5 (**permalink**) 05-06-2009, 12:48 PM

Sheesh. $350? I'm just worried about tire wear, the tech said there was a bit of cupping on the right rear tire. However, the tires have been rotated now. Is this something that can be fixed under warranty? The car is only a year old with about 18k on the clock.

GD3_Wagoon · #6 (**permalink**) 05-06-2009, 01:04 PM

i'm not sure but it's definitely worth a shot; assuming you haven't modified the suspension at all.

i noticed that the Fit (not the Fit specifically, all other cars as well) does get a tad lower as the suspension gets worn. that could be the reason your rear alignment got all skewed - i would bring that up to the 'certified honda tech' if they try to throw some BS your way.

piperpiperpiper · #7 (**permalink**) 05-06-2009, 01:06 PM

The car is bone stock.

kenchan · #8 (**permalink**) 05-07-2009, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piperpiperpiper

Rear: Right
Camber Actual -1.4 Before -1.4. Specified Range -2.5, -0.5.
Toe Actual .32 Before .33. Specified Range .00, .20

Does that help?

-joshua

you're fine. per Honda, my rears are .44 each side for a total of whoppin' .88.

and tires are wearing pretty flat.

piperpiperpiper · #9 (**permalink**) 05-07-2009, 02:48 PM

Well, the Firestone folks told me that there was cupping on the right rear, so I was worried. I don't really have a way to inspect the tires myself.

kenchan · #10 (**permalink**) 05-07-2009, 05:09 PM

you can take a flash light, look under the rear bumper where you can see the rear tire treads, shine the light at the tire, and see if the wear pattern is same across the board.

piperpiperpiper · #11 (**permalink**) 05-07-2009, 05:15 PM

Well, now I feel stupid...

E = Mc2 · #12 (**permalink**) 05-07-2009, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaaree

i wouldn't worry about that. if it bugs you that much you can have your rears shimmed like kenchan recommended.

FYI, i was quoted $350 (labor only) to get my rears shimmed - that's with the friend discount already applied.

Danam! That's a whole lot of money for less than 2 hours' work! Really. SPC says that installation time is 1/2 hour per side. BTW, here is the shim kit for the Fit's rear. Near the bottom of the page are instructions and a video. They even have a online tool that shows you where to cut and how to position the shims for the correct camber/toe (given that you know your 'before' readings and what it's supposed to be 'after').

E = Mc2 · #13 (**permalink**) 05-07-2009, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piperpiperpiper

Well, now I feel stupid...

No, you feel ignorant. Just because you didn't know something doesn't make you stupid.

piperpiperpiper · #14 (**permalink**) 05-07-2009, 05:32 PM

Don't you tell me how to feel! This is AMERICA, I ain't no ignorant!

E = Mc2 · #15 (**permalink**) 05-08-2009, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piperpiperpiper

Don't you tell me how to feel! This is AMERICA, I ain't no ignorant!

mahout · #16 (**permalink**) 05-08-2009, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piperpiperpiper

I just got my car back from Firestone, they said they could not fix the right rear alignment as the rear axle is fixed and cannot be adjusted. They did rotate and balance my tires, but I'm wondering what I can do to fix the issue. I am thinking about calling a local Honda dealership, but was going to ask here as well. Any ideas? I know at least a few other members have had this problem. My car has never been wrecked and has always been driven carefully.

What did threy indicate the right rear alignment was?
The rear axle is fixed but can be adjusted if both sides can be moved. If the left rear was toed out (was the .32 out or in?) and the left rear toed in, the whole axle can be shimmed to even up.
Yes, you can shim one side but its a long and tough adjustment, meaning the hubs will have to come off several times and shims will be necessary, which may have to be machined.
Actually, $350 is a good quote. It isn't easy and requires considerable time. We've done two.

kenchan · #17 (**permalink**) 05-08-2009, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mahout

What did threy indicate the right rear alignment was?
The rear axle is fixed but can be adjusted if both sides can be moved. If the left rear was toed out (was the .32 out or in?) and the left rear toed in, the whole axle can be shimmed to even up.
Yes, you can shim one side but its a long and tough adjustment, meaning the hubs will have to come off several times and shims will be necessary, which may have to be machined.
Actually, $350 is a good quote. It isn't easy and requires considerable time. We've done two.

positive numbers are toe-in.

mahout · #18 (**permalink**) 05-09-2009, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenchan

positive numbers are toe-in.

Thanks for toe-in direction but I was really after comparing the toe on both left and right. If one is toe-out and the other toe-in its a more simple matter of 'squaring up' the axle to the chassis and front 'axle' at the axle 'tabs' and links.. But if both are toe-out or toe-in the correction is much more tedious. Shims are required to the hub to axle plate on at least one side and possibly both sides and thats not simple, nor easy to do.

E = Mc2 · #19 (**permalink**) 05-09-2009, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mahout

Yes, you can shim one side but its a long and tough adjustment, meaning the hubs will have to come off several times and shims will be necessary, which may have to be machined.

Are we talking about some other shim than the type sold by SPC that retails for $11?

Like I posted above: If you know what your 'before' numbers are and where you need to be 'after', the process should be painless. Put the numbers in SPC's online tool; cut the correct tabs out of the shims; pull the hub; install the shim; replace the hub. Unless you royally screw up somewhere, that should be it.

But I could be wrong.

mahout · #20 (**permalink**) 05-09-2009, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E = Mc2

Are we talking about some other shim than the type sold by SPC that retails for $11?

Like I posted above: If you know what your 'before' numbers are and where you need to be 'after', the process should be painless. Put the numbers in SPC's online tool; cut the correct tabs out of the shims; pull the hub; install the shim; replace the hub. Unless you royally screw up somewhere, that should be it.

But I could be wrong.

No, you aren't wrong; we just prefer to depend on our own math skills ratherthan SPC's.
we caculate the shim thicknesses required to change the camber and toe to what we want and machine them to the needed thicknesses based on the static position of the axle plate. Probably because the actual bolt up is not always precisely the same as taken apart we find differences from what we desired and we have to do it again. In any case it requires at least a couple of hours longer. Still, when done best, you have to square up the axle plates first anyway in order for the suspension to work as designed. And that may involve shimming both axle plates.

No we're nothing like SPC's 'dial-a'wheel' unit. Basically we install large washers on the four bolts betewen the axle plate and hub backplate to change both cambr and toe. The thicknesses are quite small so getting the hub back plate to seat squarely on the axle plate is not a problem and the washers are large nough and match the axle plate to hub plate section so good surface matching happens. Having just 4 'corners' makes the math straight forward and easy to compute knowing the angles they had to be.Lots of trig but easy for us.