Here's my take on my 2010 Honda Fit and oil. That's the Fit I own and can not, knowingly, comment on others.

1) Conventional 5W20 oil is what is recommended and will perform well over the service life of the engine. It's the only oil you'll ever need - buy a named brand.

2) Honda is particular as to how their engines are broken-in.

3) Honda suggests the factory fill remain in the engine till the first oil change is called for. The reason being is that the piston skirts are moly coated and Honda feels this 'additive' circulating through the engine during the first engine oil cycle contributes to the break-in process. By the second oil change there's hardly a measurable trace of moly left, based on oil analysis that have been posted on this site.

4) The switch to synthetic will not impact the warranty or adversely effect the performance of the engine. My Honda tech suggested I wait till the second oil change before switching over. Careful research has confirmed this practice.

5) A single grade change on the winter rate of a multi-grade oil will not adversely effect the the operation of the engine, especially when switching to a full synthetic oil. My question is, however, why do it. The only situation I could see warrantying it would be if you lived north of zone 5 and made the switch on the winter oil change. But honestly, it's a 1.5L Honda motor. It will turn over perfectly well in sub-zero weather w/ 5W20 in the crank. I would be more concerned with the battery.

6) It seems Honda has switched to 0W20 oil on the 2011's. Why? My guess is they have mistaken the NA market and also the fact that synthetic oils are coming on strong. The reason being they are less expensive to produce and can command a premium price off the shelf. Can we all say 'profit margin'.

That's my take.

K_C_

 

Less expensive to produce? That's the one real point I disagree with you on, as most synthetic oils today are highly refined conventional oils (hydrocracked Group III) and therefore would be more expensive to produce.

 

Yeah, I did get a bit ahead of myself there.
I was thinking of full synthetics and an article I read not too long ago... poof, I retract the cost/price part and will say I have absolutely no idea why Honda might have gone over to 0W20.

Strike #6 due to too much caffeine and DSM's heated posts in that other thread___

 

It is important to remember Honda is a corporation and their main concer is how much money can they make. I am having trouble believing that entry level economy car with 1.5L engine requires ultra 100% synthetic oil. I would understand a need for an ultra 100% pure synthetic oil if I was driving a turbocharged performance vehicle, but for God's sake we are driving a entry level economy car. I believe this is just one of those marketing strategies by which they calculated more money could be made by announcing this is the oil they recommend. How can you recommend %w-20 for 2010 and suddenly recommend 0W-20 for 2011??? Something does not add up to me here and I'm smelling a marketing strategy which makes them more money.

 

Heh. Yea.. it's been a long day. Got up at 4 been at the hospital since 5. I've kinda been on edge.


My dad had surgery today, and again on the 9th.

 

The truth is likely somewhere in the middle of you two. Think of how much money on R&D was spent on that decision.

As time goes by, technology advances and they learn more.

I would wager that maybe they make a slightly larger margin on it, but for reasons I am too tired to type out after exhausting my self in the other thread there are myriad benefits to synthetics Turbo or NA, in an engine as tightly toleranced as ours that sees climates as cold as some of us do..

 

Like they say - follow the money. I'm sure I read somewhere that syn oil was a cheaper product to produce, my brain is just not registering on it right now. It could be more to the fact that Honda has mistaken the NA market. I see simple things like heated mirrors and low washer fluid level warning standard in Canada but not even offered in the US. Cold climate vehicles will benefit from a lower winter weight oil. Oil technologies are rapidly developing.... but I to keep smelling that smell.

 

Deep breath DSM - we're all with you! As confrontational as it seems to get sometimes we are a freak community and freaks is friends.

 

I don't think profit margin is a driving factor behind this.

Why? because they set the oil change interval to 12,500k. If they wanted to screw you they'd set the OCI to like 5k which would still be considered a good length of time for those used to 3k. Honda, and particularly their dealer service departments,stands to make much more profit from labor charges in oil changes, rather than through fluid.

How much is the upcharge per oil change? $65-28/12=$3 extra/quart=$12 extra / oil change

How much will this save you in pure fuel costs?
According to Mobil1 AFE (0w-20) calculator
Mobil 1 - World's Leading Synthetic Motor Oil Brand - Official US Site

they estimate a potential 2% fuel savings from using AFE oil over regular oil.

So 12,500miles /30mpg=415 gallons.
415 x $3.30=$1375 in fuel costs.
2% = $26 in potential savings or so. (Granted, this maybe a bit optimistic)

But really, when you realize you are spending $1375 in fuel over the same period of time, does the $12 for better oil really seem like that much anymore?

Note: You should be running your MM down to 0. If you're changing your oil while still in double digits you only have yourself to blame for wasting oil and money.

This is also ignoring any of the other potential benefits from having a synthetic oil. Fresh out of the bottle, I'd agree little to no benefit between the oils, but nearer to the end of the OCI, I'd think the synthetic will be doing better than the conventional and staying closer to the specs and getting closer to realizing the 2% fuel savings.

If you think it through, there's no big profit margin to be had here, somehow people just get focused on the one-time charges and lose the big picture.

It's the same as people who drive slightly farther to save a few cents/gallon on fuel. If fuel were $1/gallon, a few cents/gallon would be a significant difference. But as gas approaches $4/gallon, the few cents actually become less significant, but people actually start focusing on the price more, rather than less.


As a side note: I switched over to mobil1 0w-20AFE after first oil change. Car does seem slightly smoother during startup especially in colder conditions (ski trip).
Not to say the 5w-20 wouldn't have started up, or worked fine, but just as I said in my other post, it seems like it is already pre-warmed up.
I don't really track fuel usage, and 2% differences would be within a margin of error even if I did track it.

 

Also, my local dealership told me their 0W-20 is a semisynthetic and the whole oil change is like $5-$10 more than a standard oil change, and it's the dealers who will be taking most of that money, not Honda.

 

Not trying to incite a flame war here, as I just pulled some scorched earth maneuvers in the other thread..

But as per Honda (the manual) and my OCD recommendations.. I would change your Oil when the MM says 15% if you are going to bother with the MM at all.

"0%" is past due on both accounts.

I see what you and others might rightfully call wasted money as insurance on my ~$17K investment.

But you are all free to do as you please, and I am sure the impacts will be minimal.

Like I said based on what I know of Oils and engines, specifically the L15A1 and gradually more about the L15A7, you could run a straight dino 10w30 oil and be fine if your climate allows for it.

0w20 offers empirical advantages, and changing your oil more often v. less often does as well.

In the end it is up to you guys, the end users what you feel like doing!

For the record there is a Honda Tech on this board, and I will not name names, he can chime in if he pleases.. that is on board with me on this point.

 

Honda recommend changing oil at around 15% though... i don't think is a good idea running it down to 0.

 

My owners manual says to start planning for an oil change at 15% and make sure it's done before it hits 0. So you're probably fine down to 0 (especially if you can change it yourself right at 0) but I wouldn't go further. I believe they say 15% so a buffer is built in. My girlfriend's dad routinely goes to -500 miles or more on his 2006 Pilot and so far he's got 100,000 miles out of it.

 

After reading your last two posts I have to say that you bring up a valid point and maybe this was a case where a corporation actually wanted their customers actually to save money with their oil changes.

 

You've got it right, the 15% is so you can schedule the oil change. I'm at 20% till the second oil change. I'm also at 19Kmiles. I'll take it to 15% then do the switch to synthetic. I'll say seeing 10K miles between oil changes oil dino oil is new territory for me. I trust Honda but will feel better with synthetic.

Funny how I/we emotionalize such a mechanical thing...

 

I've heard the 'don't put in syn oil until the second oil change' comment a few times. Exxon (Mobil 1) says it's nonsense.

Does anybody have an official Honda opinion on this?

 

Mobil 1 is a group 3 base with POAs and esters. Thats what tri syn means. Group 3 is a cleaned up oil better than group 2. But group 2 and group2+ is a very good oil too. Its the base to most regular oil and truck oil. Mobil one is safe in a new car but not needed until after the first oil change because of the oil additives Honda uses.

 

Are you referring to the oil fill that comes from the factory? Thats a high moly break in oil..

If you are going to change it use another break in oil for the first OCI. Then switch to synthetic.

 

Factory fill is most likely a semi synthetic oil with a bottle of moly. The rest comes off the piston skirts until the formation is complete on the engine parts. M1 would work fine too but not need unless server driving and Hot or Cold temps. Kinda like here in Chicago, but the regular oil is doing fine.


Like you said about turbos, and racing synthetics would be a better choice. But its a matter of choice.

 

I read this string and why I wonder. I will follow the MM and take it to my dealer and trust them to do the right thing. I suspect a lot of Honda owners do this and get long lasting reliable service from their car.