Potential Owner - Traction Control Disable?

[waltgary]

Hi to all: I've got a short list of buying a new Prius or Fit. My '07 Prius was recently totaled (not my fault, minor injuries) and I need to replace it. While overall I really liked the Toyota, the Fit has some decided advantages, most notable being it's price.

I've got two questions about a potential '09 Fit.

Can you disable the traction control when stuck? On the Prius you couldn't so when I got the slightest bit stuck in snow (I'm in NE Minnesota) you were out with a shovel trying to get it out. I'm convinced I could have rocked it out had I been able to disable the traction control. While I liked the safety benefits of it's stability control, the traction control was a pain in the arse.

The second has to do with manual vs. automatic transmission. If I go with an auto, has anyone changed the transmission fluid themselves? A manual tranny is essentially maintenance free for the life of the car and costs less up front, but it's inconvenient (for me) and gets slightly worse mileage. An automatic costs more up front and maintenance adds to the cost of ownership. On the upside it's more convenient to drive and apparently is slightly more fuel efficient (important to me or I wouldn't have gotten the Prius in the first place).

I thank everyone in advance. gary

[tdesi420]

If you buy the 2009 Fit sport with Navi, it comes with VSA and yes you can disable it. There is a button on the dashboard, left of the steering wheel with which you can disable VSA.

As for your 2nd question, i cannot answer that. I have less 300 miles on my car and am not gonna think about changing the auto tranny fluid for a long time.

[Blackout]

well the 09 sport w/nav AT (mine) does not need to tuch the tranny for 100,000 miles in fact the next time honda sees the fit for an opponent is 100,000 miles if i remember right so go with the fit people well love you more and the name is soooo much cooler

[Roger's Fit]

Originally Posted by waltgary

Hi to all: I've got a short list of buying a new Prius or Fit. My '07 Prius was recently totaled (not my fault, minor injuries) and I need to replace it. While overall I really liked the Toyota, the Fit has some decided advantages, most notable being it's price.

I've got two questions about a potential '09 Fit.

Can you disable the traction control when stuck? On the Prius you couldn't so when I got the slightest bit stuck in snow (I'm in NE Minnesota) you were out with a shovel trying to get it out. I'm convinced I could have rocked it out had I been able to disable the traction control. While I liked the safety benefits of it's stability control, the traction control was a pain in the arse.

The second has to do with manual vs. automatic transmission. If I go with an auto, has anyone changed the transmission fluid themselves? A manual tranny is essentially maintenance free for the life of the car and costs less up front, but it's inconvenient (for me) and gets slightly worse mileage. An automatic costs more up front and maintenance adds to the cost of ownership. On the upside it's more convenient to drive and apparently is slightly more fuel efficient (important to me or I wouldn't have gotten the Prius in the first place).

I had problems with snow and the traction control recently (only in deep snow in the driveway). I disabled the traction control and the car moved on fine. It works great in the snow and slop on the highway.

The manual gets better gas mileage from everything i know. Since you don't have to change the fluid that often in the auto trans, you could just have a mechanic change it for you.

Go with the fit. You know you want to, and besides, everybody else is doing it....

[waltgary]

"There is a button on the dashboard, left of the steering wheel with which you can disable VSA."

So, this disables both traction AND stability control temporarily? gary

[vtecfit1]

Originally Posted by waltgary

"There is a button on the dashboard, left of the steering wheel with which you can disable VSA."

So, this disables both traction AND stability control temporarily? gary

yes a button, only the "top of the line" fit gets VSA (Vehicle Stability Assist) its not traction control, no fits get an LSD either, and if you think you can go 100,000 miles without touching trans fluid (MT or AT) you'll be sorry, i think Honda say's to drain and refill at 30k (i'm 10k away from that on my 07sport AT so i havent really checked the book yet, the money you'll save even buying a top of the line fit with navi and VSA, is worth the little more money at the pump, the fit is a great car for the price, and i still love driving EVERY TIME I GET IN IT, EVEN AFTER TWO YEARS!!!

[waltgary]

"yes a button, only the "top of the line" fit gets VSA (Vehicle Stability Assist) its not traction control, no fits get an LSD either"

"I had problems with snow and the traction control recently (only in deep snow in the driveway). I disabled the traction control and the car moved on fine. It works great in the snow and slop on the highway. "

The above two posts seem contradictory to me. VSA is what I consider some form of stability control while traction control is akin to LSD (assuming that means limited slip diff). The post from Roger's Fit seems to indicate that the VSA shutoff disables the traction control function, which is what I'm looking for. I don't know how else to explain how he was assisted out of the driveway when the snow was deep? I'm assuming that vtecfit1's 07 Fit doesn't have the traction control function, but that perhaps the 09 models do?

" if you think you can go 100,000 miles without touching trans fluid (MT or AT) you'll be sorry, i think Honda say's to drain and refill at 30k "

30k mile tranny fluid changes seem a bit much to me. Is that really what the owner's manual indicates? The CVT in the Prius had a maintenance schedule of exactly zero items. I like that.

"The manual gets better gas mileage from everything i know "

Is this true? Both the EPA and Consumer Reports 'first drive' numbers indicate a slight improvement with the auto.

" go with the fit people well love you more and the name is soooo much cooler "

Ok, you got me on that one. All cars I seem to buy have dumb names. I guess that concept fits me as well.

I'll wait the two weeks for an announcement on the '10 Prius redesign but am leaning towards Honda at this time. It's just a question of being cheaper. I calculated up the fuel price differences for the two cars, and it looks like a payback for the Prius would be between 150 and 250k miles when figuring in the extra up front cost of the Prius. That's assuming an average price per gallon of $4. There are other fixed and variable costs uniquely associated with each car but I don't think I could fudge the numbers to make the Toyota come out cheaper over the life of the vehicle.

Now I just have to decide if the VSA is worth having to buy the frivolous (for me) nav option.

Some day I'll figure out how to post quotes without cutting and pasting.
thanks again, gary

[Roger's Fit]

Originally Posted by waltgary

"yes a button, only the "top of the line" fit gets VSA (Vehicle Stability Assist) its not traction control, no fits get an LSD either"

"I had problems with snow and the traction control recently (only in deep snow in the driveway). I disabled the traction control and the car moved on fine. It works great in the snow and slop on the highway. "

The above two posts seem contradictory to me. VSA is what I consider some form of stability control while traction control is akin to LSD (assuming that means limited slip diff). The post from Roger's Fit seems to indicate that the VSA shutoff disables the traction control function, which is what I'm looking for. I don't know how else to explain how he was assisted out of the driveway when the snow was deep? I'm assuming that vtecfit1's 07 Fit doesn't have the traction control function, but that perhaps the 09 models do?


"The manual gets better gas mileage from everything i know "

Is this true? Both the EPA and Consumer Reports 'first drive' numbers indicate a slight improvement with the auto.

It does control wheel spin of the front tires, and detects when the vehicle starts to slide. I've seen it activate several times when starting off from a stop. And, it does turn off when you turn off VSA.

Pardon my misspeak, when i say traction control, i mean VSA.

Look over at other parts of the forum, especially the ECO fit forum. That is where all the real mileage talk goes on.

[SheepNutz]

As someone who has an 07 Prius and an 09 Fit, I'd say go with the Fit. The good things about the Prius are gas mileage and a less bumpy ride, but the Fit beats it everwhere else and is a lot more fun to drive.

[mahout]

Originally Posted by waltgary

Hi to all: I've got a short list of buying a new Prius or Fit. My '07 Prius was recently totaled (not my fault, minor injuries) and I need to replace it. While overall I really liked the Toyota, the Fit has some decided advantages, most notable being it's price.

I've got two questions about a potential '09 Fit.

Can you disable the traction control when stuck? On the Prius you couldn't so when I got the slightest bit stuck in snow (I'm in NE Minnesota) you were out with a shovel trying to get it out. I'm convinced I could have rocked it out had I been able to disable the traction control. While I liked the safety benefits of it's stability control, the traction control was a pain in the arse.

The second has to do with manual vs. automatic transmission. If I go with an auto, has anyone changed the transmission fluid themselves? A manual tranny is essentially maintenance free for the life of the car and costs less up front, but it's inconvenient (for me) and gets slightly worse mileage. An automatic costs more up front and maintenance adds to the cost of ownership. On the upside it's more convenient to drive and apparently is slightly more fuel efficient (important to me or I wouldn't have gotten the Prius in the first place).

I thank everyone in advance. gary

Apparently the computer controlled stability/traction system can be turned off per other posters.

As far as the automatic vs manual, you need to know the automatic is not more fuel efficient than the manual. If we drove all the time like the EPA mandated fuel test its possible but since we don't count on a lot less mpg than your Prius, manual or automatic. I've driven a Prius for a week and two tanks of gas and my mileage was 30% better than my Fit.
And 5% worse than our Civic HX. Or our Geo Metro xFi, which is our mpg king.
.
PS if Top Gear shows it again be sure to watch the mpg test comparing their Prius with a BMW M3. Driving flat out the Prius got 17 mpg and the M3 19 tracking the Prius. Ought to be on you tube.

[Roger's Fit]

I tried an experiment in the snow. The highways were well covered. I put the car in first gear from a stop, and floored it. The engine would not go over 3K.


Turn off the "Stability Control" and tried it again (not totally floored). it will run all the way up to the redline if you let it.

I'd call that "Traction control".

[waltgary]

Your 'experiment' was the exact data I was looking for. I thank you, gary

[DZeckhausen]

Originally Posted by waltgary

The above two posts seem contradictory to me. VSA is what I consider some form of stability control

Yes - correct. VSA stands for Vehicle Stability Assist and is the same as Dynamic Stability Control (DSC), Electronic Stability Control (ESC), Electronic Stability Program (ESP), etc. All names used by different manufacturers to describe the same concept.

...while traction control is akin to LSD (assuming that means limited slip diff).

Traction control and a limited slip differential (LSD) are two totally different concepts. Traction control is a scheme that utilizes computer control over engine output and (on some cars) the selective application of individual brakes to control wheel spin. A car with traction control may or may not also have a limited slip differential. The Fit has an open differential.

An open differential applies the same torque to both wheels. If one of those wheels is on a low friction surface (ice, gravel, etc.) with respect to the other wheel, the low friction wheel will begin to spin, while the wheel with traction will not be able to get power to the ground. This is most noticable when attempting to power the car out of a sharp turn. Let's assume a right turn here for this example. The weight of the car shifts to the left and the unweighted right wheel has less traction. Thus it starts to spin and all the power is wasted smoking that tire. An electronic traction control system will then cut power to the motor, reducing the wheel spin, but also bogging the car down. A smarter electronic traction system will also apply the brake to the spinning wheel, allowing the engine to apply some more torque to the wheel with traction. (Remember, an open differential applies the same torque to both sides.)

A far more effective system at getting power down is a "real" limited slip differential, utilizing clutch plates, gears, or viscous fluid to limit the difference in velocity between a pair of driven wheels by redirecting torque to the wheel with grip. See: Limited slip differential - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia for details on the various schemes to accomplish a true limited slip differential.

The post from Roger's Fit seems to indicate that the VSA shutoff disables the traction control function, which is what I'm looking for. I don't know how else to explain how he was assisted out of the driveway when the snow was deep?

I believe it disables both electronic traction control and stability control.