2nd Generation (GE 08-present)The New Fit... Generation specific talk and questions here.
Welcome to Fit Freak!
Welcome to Fit Freak,
You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!
i dunno how legit the 'hatchbacks are not as stable' argument is...subie changed the sti to a hatchback config because they were getting thier butts handed to them in rallying (when they still participated) and they switched the design claiming added rigidity that the sedan body couldnt offer.
(and this actually kinda makes sense considering mitsu has always run sedan evos and has not been actively involved in rallying much these days)
at any rate, i dunno if its something we should proclaim as fact...wouldn't all that extra 'bracing' in the hatchbacks result in higher curb weights? last time i checked, the jetta is heavier than the rabbit (be it two or four door guise) and the ep3 civic was much more rigid than the other civics available at that time.
i dunno. just saying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Type 100
Depends on the design, perhaps.
Even Nissan thought its 350Z and 370Z needed a cross-brace in the rear cutting into the usable luggage room...comically more so in the 350Z than the newer car. (That 350Z rear brace is FAT!)
Despite the coupe designation, both Z-cars are technically hatchbacks/liftbacks too, with a top-hinged hatch lid covering what basically is a huge gaping hole.
Then again, who knows what goes on in the heads of chassis engineers? This might be a case-to-case basis thing really
Though the new STi/WRX hatches may be more torsionally rigid than the previous sedans, that wasn't the primary reason for Subaru's switching to them for rallying.
After all, by the time the cars are prepared for racing, with all the roll bars, seam welding, etc. they could make a noodle of a chassis stiffer.
The main advantage of the new hatch for Subaru in rallying is that they could shorten the car, while simultaneously increasing the wheelbase. Without having to have a separate trunk opening, the rear wheels can move closer to the back of the car, or for the same given wheelbase, the rear overhang is shorter. Just look at our Fits.
It ultimately made the smaller and more manageable through the tighter stages, without losing stability.
If I recall, the active diffs that made tiny cars like the 206 more stable were restricted in their abilities, so Subaru preferred a car that was both shorter than the previous and longer in wheelbase for stability, hence the choice of the hatch.
My sister had an Austin America in the early 70s and despite it's weaknesses, loved its accommadating hatch.... After driving a Rabbit that I souped up a bit in the mid eighties and a Diesel model in the early to mid 90s I knew when I read the first article I saw in Motor Trend followed by another in Road and Track that I was going to buy one.... It has replaced my GMC Safari cargo van and no one has called me when they moved since. Now if the drivers seat was as accommadating to my 6'2" 210 Lb. arthritic body, it would be the perfect car..... I still have the van but keep it hidden in the barn.
We get the sedan here in Oz. It's called the City here.
Comes under the heading of "what were they thinking" IMHO. They cost nearly as much as a Civic, they have more weight and the same power as a Jazz, and a less flexible interior. the only things they really have going for them are styling and rear leg room (they have a longer wheelbase).
Nah, I think I'll stick with the hatch. It's practically a station wagon compared with other small hatches anyway (eg Hyundai Getz, Suzuki Swift or Holden Barina/Chevy Aveo/Daewoo Kaleos)
You fellows down under have a more practical choice of vehicles than we do in the States. Does the government there still stick a 100% import tax on cars. It may not have been that much but it was higher than hell in 1969 when I was on R&R in Sydney.... The guy that owned The Whiskey A Go Go paid nearly twice what a Cadillac sold for here for a Mustang convertible.... It was also a trip seeing Plymouth Valiant versions of the Rancheros and El Caminos that were popular at that time in the States..... Damn it was hard to get use to walking on the left and looking to the right when crossing the street but I learned to when I got clipped by a car while walking back to my hotel in Kings Cross, drunk out of my mind.... The counter clock wise spin of water going down a drain was a trip as well..... I was only there for six days but it was great.... It is early morning here and I am drinking Mescal. Sorry about the reminiscing, but old war veterans do that during the wee hours after a little imbibing of spirits.... I love your wonderful country.
We get the sedan here in Oz. It's called the City here.
Comes under the heading of "what were they thinking" IMHO. They cost nearly as much as a Civic, they have more weight and the same power as a Jazz, and a less flexible interior. the only things they really have going for them are styling and rear leg room (they have a longer wheelbase).
Nah, I think I'll stick with the hatch. It's practically a station wagon compared with other small hatches anyway (eg Hyundai Getz, Suzuki Swift or Holden Barina/Chevy Aveo/Daewoo Kaleos)
Over here the GM1/2 Cities overlap and straddle the (very small) pricing gap between the GE6/8 Jazzes and FD1 Civics.
Personally I liked the ride quality of the GM1 City much better than the equivalent GE6 Jazz. Both of them have the same 1.3L L13A i-VTEC mill and basic chassis, but the City's ride is noticeably plusher, behaving as if it was a much bigger car while still retaining the GE's darty nature.
That's just me though. If the City were priced in a silly manner the GE Fit/Jazz would get my vote too
Even Nissan thought its 350Z and 370Z needed a cross-brace in the rear cutting into the usable luggage room...comically more so in the 350Z than the newer car. (That 350Z rear brace is FAT!)
Despite the coupe designation, both Z-cars are technically hatchbacks/liftbacks too, with a top-hinged hatch lid covering what basically is a huge gaping hole.
Then again, who knows what goes on in the heads of chassis engineers? This might be a case-to-case basis thing really
i agree that it may be a case by case thing. hell, cross braces could just be there to enhance handling and rigidity in general, not so much because its absolutely necessary.
i guess there is no real way to quantify it..i have not heard of say, a gli sedan out manuevering or doing anything better (but be slower and heaveir) than a gti hatchback.
i'm imagining a sedan over a hatch, and in reality (i could be wrong) all i see thats really 'filling' that space is the expanse of plastic behind the back seats that usually houses a couple of speakers and maybe some stuffed animals if you are into that.
doesnt seem like that would add to much in the way of chassis rigidity or stability.
again since there is no real way to measure it, i guess we can 'discuss' amongst each other all day long. but it makes for good discussion.
__________________
if i could travel through time sometime....
pep pep?
Originally Posted by Btrthnezr3 Say Wha??? You mean, there's another reason to have a suspension?
Over here the GM1/2 Cities overlap and straddle the (very small) pricing gap between the GE6/8 Jazzes and FD1 Civics.
Personally I liked the ride quality of the GM1 City much better than the equivalent GE6 Jazz. Both of them have the same 1.3L L13A i-VTEC mill and basic chassis, but the City's ride is noticeably plusher, behaving as if it was a much bigger car while still retaining the GE's darty nature.
That's just me though. If the City were priced in a silly manner the GE Fit/Jazz would get my vote too
The City has a longer wheelbase, so there is tons of room in the back seat, and you do get a plusher ride. But yes, for only a small amount more here
you can get a Civic.
To answer Texas Coyote, yes we do have import taxes here. I think it used to be about 70%? but it gets smaller every year and will ultimately phase out. At the moment I think it's about 10%, at least for a privately imported car. If it costs more than A$57,000 or so you have to add on another 33% for the Luxury Car Tax. Quite how a Landrover Defender qualifies as a luxury car, I'm not sure .
Most Hondas are imported from Thailand, and we have a free trade agreement with them, so there is no duty.
again since there is no real way to measure it, i guess we can 'discuss' amongst each other all day long. but it makes for good discussion.
Actually there is a way of measuring torsional rigidity, strictly speaking...but I know you gotta be a chassis engineer for at least BMW or Porsche to get access to a machine that can do so.
So yeah, no practicable way of measuring it for us mere mortals. And agreed, it does make for good pub talk though
This is the current-generation GM1/2 Honda City - the successor to the GD-series Fit Aria/City. Despite the "GM" chassis code, it's a mechanical twin to the GE Fits/Jazzes.
Apparently it's not out in Japan yet. The City sedans have been made primarily for the ASEAN/Australian market.
If you compare the GD City/Fit Aria with the GM City you'll note the looks have been tidied up a lot. Gone is the "fat ass" look of the GD Fit Aria/City sedan.
I have wondered the exact same thing about Americans and their disdain for hatchbacks. What is with their love-affair with sedans and coupes? I understand coupes are "cool" because they very "sports car" like, but sedans? There is really nothing a sedan has that a hatchback can't do better, and look good while doing it.
Could the disdain come from the love affair with SUVs? In the 80s hatchbacks and station wagons were pretty common, right? (I was born '83 so I'm guessing here.) SUVs are just giant hatchbacks/station wagons, after all. Perhaps when SUVs were introduced part of the selling point was how "big and spacious" they were compared to those dinky hatchbacks. Americans like "big and spacious", even if it's expensive and impractical, so perhaps the subconsciousness of America started associated hatchbacks smallness and/or inferiority. Thus making it "not cool".
I was thinking what if the Fit was a sedan, or a coupe, or a three door hatch? I don't know about you guys, but I would not have purchased the Fit if it was any of those body styles. Americans for the most part have looked down on hatchbacks and I don't understand why. Hatchbacks are the best of all worlds, they look sporty like a coupe, but they hold far more stuff than a typical sedan trunk. Although it does seem like people in this country are coming around to the idea of small hatchbacks like they have in Europe because of escalating gas prices.
I've considered the Fit a mini-minivan...
I used to hate hatchbacks and imports until bought a used Integra almost 15yrs ago... since then I prefer hatchbacks, and Honda's... Any car I've had since if it wasn't a hatch I hated it... lolol... I guess once you own one, you see the versatility of a hatch, and reliability of a Honda...
... must be something with americans...
I saw an episodde of the Soprano's yearssss ago, the one where Edie Falco(sp?) and the her friend went to Paris (I believe), they're at a cafe and almost every car on the street is a hatchback.... huge difference in Europe.
When I tell people we have a Honda Fit, and they ask what it is, I will refer to it as a subcompact station wagon. If there is a clear definition of the point of demarcation between a five door hatchback with folding rear seats and a station wagon, I certainly cannot locate or define it.
The description is in the eye of the beholder. If I feel it is a station wagon, then that is what it is. Perhaps that makes me a bit like the guy who describes his wife as the most beautiful or sexiest woman he has ever met, but is that so bad??
When I tell people we have a Honda Fit, and they ask what it is, I will refer to it as a subcompact station wagon. If there is a clear definition of the point of demarcation between a five door hatchback with folding rear seats and a station wagon, I certainly cannot locate or define it.
The description is in the eye of the beholder. If I feel it is a station wagon, then that is what it is. Perhaps that makes me a bit like the guy who describes his wife as the most beautiful or sexiest woman he has ever met, but is that so bad??
My Texas Certificate Of Title says Station Wagon...... The same for my wife's Subaru Forester and Motor Trend and Automobile Week gave it the SUV of the year award..... I see them both as station wagons, the Mini is a hatch back.
I've considered the Fit a mini-minivan...
I used to hate hatchbacks and imports until bought a used Integra almost 15yrs ago... since then I prefer hatchbacks, and Honda's... Any car I've had since if it wasn't a hatch I hated it... lolol... I guess once you own one, you see the versatility of a hatch, and reliability of a Honda...
... must be something with americans...
I saw an episodde of the Soprano's yearssss ago, the one where Edie Falco(sp?) and the her friend went to Paris (I believe), they're at a cafe and almost every car on the street is a hatchback.... huge difference in Europe.
The VW Golf set a trend, and everyone followed it.
Roads are narrow in Europe and fuel is expensive. You want something small and yet roomy and the hatchback fits the bill. There are sedans as well, but when I lived in High Wycombe (UK) for a while, the only big minivans were driven by the Americans from the Airforce base nearby, probably brought over for them in a C-5.
FitFreak Fossilized Fuddy-Duddy 
Linear Mode
