2nd Generation (GE 08-present)The New Fit... Generation specific talk and questions here.
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I am most likely going to buy an 09 Fit this month. I know I want at least the sport model, but I am not sure if I want to make the jump to the sport w/ nav. I really could care less about the nav feature (I already have a portable GPS that works great) I am only considering this option because of the VSA feature. Are those of you who got the Fit w/ Nav happy with this feature? Would you consider it worth it? And do any of you who did not get the Fit w/ Nav wish you did?
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If you plan on keeping the car stock (same tire grip, rolling circumference, wheel width, stock brakes, etc.) I'd say go for it. If you plan on even just changing the tires and wheels out, I would say don't do it.
My dad's VSA kicked in constantly when I was driving his car near the edge. It caused the car to react quite a bit differently than my base model. It was almost scary.
If you swap out wheels that don't have TPMS sensors, VSA is always engaged in super-nanny mode. Not fun at all.
Another thing to consider is that while you can't add VSA afterwards, you can add the Navi system after the fact.
I think the VSA works great in my Sport Navi. The road feel at highway speed is excellent, and there's plenty of assist when parking, etc.
That said, I haven't driven near the edge, and probably won't...
VSA modulates the brakes to keep the car from slipping and sliding around. It shouldn't come on at speeds lower than about 5mph. If it comes on while you're parking then either the system is malfunctioning, or the nut behind the wheel needs adjusting.
In my case, it's almost never the car, more the nut behind the wheel that needs to be adjusted.
Haha thanks for the laugh awptickes. I recently found a new "back way" home from work..lot's of twisties and 35mph corners. It's fun to push it hard and know where the limit of the car is with VSA. If my instrument cluster is not glowing orange and flashing at me I know I'm doin' fine!
Last winter I took a spin in a remote area of my subdivision with 6" of fresh snow on the ground. I was genuinely impressed with the function of the VSA system: I would turn VSA off and barrel towards a cul-de-sac, then try to turn the wheel as to make a sharp turn - obviously the car would just plow straight ahead even with both wheels turned all the way...not ideal! I did it again with VSA on...VSA engaged briefly and the car made a much safer more controlled turn.
I then worked the back end of the car, testing with VSA. I would get the front end of the car half-way around a turn then tug hard hard the wheel into the turn (this took a few tries to get right) . With VSA off - the rear tires would break free of the turn and initiate a rear skid, requiring me to counter-steer and accelerate through the turn to straighten the car. It sounds a bit exaggerated, but the point is if you weren't paying attention, were a inexperienced driver, or were going too fast - you may end up taillights first around that corner . VSA on - the car sticks to the line you started with...at the apex of the turn VSA engages and keeps you right on track through the turn.
As awptickes stated previously, if you plan to upgrade your tires and suspension, and you are a relatively experienced driver whom does not need to drive through snow a lot, you may not need VSA. So far I have enjoyed my VSA. I like the reminder when I am getting a bit too crazy, and the safety net it provides in situations I outlined above and other emergency maneuvers.
This is an interesting question, and one I had to deal with myself.
First, what convinced me that I really should get VSA:
1. The NHTSA thinks so highly of it, they're going to require it to be standard on all cars in 2012: NHTSA to make ESC standard on all cars
2. The IIHS will only give its "Top Safety Pick" designation to a car that has stability control available.
3. People suggest it's as much of a revolution in safety as the seat belt or air bags.
Now the next question is, is it worth the nearly $2000 increase in price? (Putting aside the fact that Honda really shouldn't be bundling the 2 together, but whatever.) Well, if it saves you from getting in an accident once, then it's paid for itself, in my opinion.
I originally thought, yea, VSA is nice to have but not all that necessary, especially for almost $2k... until I was in a situation with my previous car that didn't have it where I spun my car while driving at around 65mph after swerving to avoid a dear. It was mostly due to driver error (I overcorrected after the swerve), but I'm nearly positive VSA would have stopped me from spinning out.
I've only had my Fit a week and haven't had the VSA activate yet, but I have high hopes for the system.
I think if you're just going to be doing mostly low speed city driving, you might be alright without it... but I think it's worth it.
As an aside, the navi does include steering wheel audio controls, which is awfully convenient and the voice recognition is kind of useful, so it makes the sting of the $1800 not as bad. And depending on your area, there may not be as much demand for the navigation models, so you might be able to negotiate a bit more (mine was sitting on the dealer's lot for like 4 months, so they were a bit more willing to negotiate... not too many people buy a loaded cheap car).
If you drive in bad weather get it, or if your just bad at judging a turn get it, but if you are a good practical driver, which I think most of us are day to day...it hardly seems worth it. Although I have to Quantify my statement by saying I do have another car that I drive in bad weather(rare thing in CA) and for going to snow (snowboarding), and a bit of Dirt fun. So if its your only car, and if VSA saves you just that one time...it may pay for itself given hospital bills are probably going to be a lot more than 2G's.
this question pops up freqently so you should probably do a search for additional comments.
for me, since we have snow we went without vsa and got snow tires. from experience i know that snow tires will be more effective than vsa with all season tires.
__________________ 08 FitSport (5MT) Storm Silver - My modded dd 09 FitSport (AT) Taffeta White - My stock GE8 as her dd 04 G35Coupe (6MT) Silver - My modded weekend touring car. 09 370Z (6MT) Silver - My weekend sports car.
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I haven't tried it out in my Fit but my 01 Benz has it as a standard feature. It did help me avoid a serious accident one time. Also in the snow when the car starts to lose traction I can feel the ESC (its called electronic stability control in the benz)take affect , its also a 4-matic all wheel drive, so between those two features the car feels like its planted to the ground firmly.
__________________ 2009 Fit Sport Tidewater blue/nav/auto/moonroof
2001 MB E320 wagon
1977 Caddy Coupe Deville
Just in case anybody else is interested, Consumer Reports had a recent blog entry on stability control (in regards to cash for clunkers). If you watch the video, starting around 1:00 they test an Audi without and with stability control.
VSA is good, yes, it's nice to have, but it is not a replacement for good training.
Had I not been trained on a track by true professionals on how to handle any car in a variety of conditions, I would have wrecked my car many times. Please, please, please, write your legislators and make them require drivers' training that actually teaches theory. If you do one thing for yourself and for your car, attend a Performance Driving School.
It was the best thing I ever did.
That said, I have paid probably $4000 or so on driving schools. While that seems like a lot, and some people may say "ah-ha! you could have bought VSA twice!" No, I couldn't have bought VSA for every car I will ever drive from now on for that 4k. Yes, vsa is a good thing, but it's not needed if you know how to drive the car.
Works great on dry roads, too, if you suddenly have to swerve to avoid something in the road. Many say that if you are a good driver, you don't need it. VSA really comes into its own when a situation develops rapidly because of something you couldn't see until the last second and you have to make sudden evasive maneuvers. It thinks much faster than I can. There are a lot of things that happen--you can hear it cut power to the engine, the ABS pump comes on, and whatever brake needs to engage will do so. The result is that the car goes where you point it without getting upset or sliding around, and you don't start weaving as you try to catch up with a slide.
What really happens is almost nothing--the car goes where you point it with no tire chirps or slide. No drama. I like that on a long drive.
We waited to buy our Fit until VSA was available because we had used a car that had it. I'd never own another without it.
For a lot of people, they need all the help they can get to stay on the road. But for anyone who really knows how to wheel a car, stability control is almost worthless and many of the worst systems on the market can get you in a wreck rather than help avoid one.
The best stability control systems I've driven have been in GM cars, I actually don't mind leaving them engaged while driving as the threshhold of engagement is very high and the system brings the car back in line without taking control away from the driver.
The worst is Toyota. I think even a mediocare driver is better off without stability control than with Toyota stability control. Very low threshold of engagement, takes control of the car away from the driver, can be so slow to react to a sudden input that it doesn't react until the driver has corrected, leading to a seesaw type battle with the car, and even comes on driving down gravel roads for no reason at all.
I haven't tested Honda's system, but judging by the fact they can't even do electric throttle right, I doubt they hit a home-run with their stability control system, especially on an entrylevel car like the Fit.
For a lot of people, they need all the help they can get to stay on the road. But for anyone who really knows how to wheel a car, stability control is almost worthless and many of the worst systems on the market can get you in a wreck rather than help avoid one.
VSA is good, yes, it's nice to have, but it is not a replacement for good training.
Had I not been trained on a track by true professionals on how to handle any car in a variety of conditions, I would have wrecked my car many times. Please, please, please, write your legislators and make them require drivers' training that actually teaches theory.
A noble sentiment, uptick, but a vain one. We Americans figure the right to drive is in the Constitution or something; how many people do you know who have actually been turned down for a driver's license, even under the current system? I watched a fool on the PA turnpike today; no lane or speed discipline, gabbing on the cell phone, but no doubt an upstanding citizen, and entitled to drive. I guess.
Even worse, a buddy quotes his clients at the welfare office; their take is 'you don't NEED a driver's license; you just have ta' know HOW...'
I agree with you entirely, we should have mandatory training, but it ain't gonna happen. The Germans have extensive driver training, but then the Deutschers do have a track record of making stuff happen.
Maybe the VSA is a help.
Moon
The Germans have extensive driver training, but then the Deutschers do have a track record of making stuff happen.
Let's face the facts: American Public Transport sucks, and it's cultural barrier to get people to use it. A lot of people have this image of poor people being the only ones using public transport. All of the money was dumped into other things instead of public transportation programs. I sure hope this changes.
Funny you should mention Germany. All of the schools I attended were in Germany. Both performance driving schools were hosted at Nürburgring, and the other school I attended was for motorcycle licensing (Not cheap at all, probably paid close to $3500), but I feel like I got every cent worth. I have since learned that ABS on a motorcycle is really something to behold, after watching the videos in that class.
Last night I played Designated driver for a couple friends at a Brooks and Dunn concert. The guy whose car we rode in was in the front seat and he said something like "Relax, you don't have to be so uptight" because he saw that my hands were always at either 9-3 or 10-2 the whole way home. I told him that it's a habit, and it's just how I drive, I can't help it. That's the issue with american drivers' education; there isn't enough behind the wheel time to build the good habits.
I haven't tested Honda's system, but judging by the fact they can't even do electric throttle right, I doubt they hit a home-run with their stability control system, especially on an entrylevel car like the Fit.
Please back up your rant with data.
I'm sure I am one of those people you wrote about who need all the help they can get to stay on the road. If you have anything helpful to say, I'd be happy to listen. I have thousands of miles driving with both GM and Honda VSA and would recommend either system.
If you know some reason I should turn my Honda system off when I drive, feel free to share it.
For a lot of people, they need all the help they can get to stay on the road. But for anyone who really knows how to wheel a car, stability control is almost worthless and many of the worst systems on the market can get you in a wreck rather than help avoid one.
The best stability control systems I've driven have been in GM cars, I actually don't mind leaving them engaged while driving as the threshhold of engagement is very high and the system brings the car back in line without taking control away from the driver.
The worst is Toyota. I think even a mediocare driver is better off without stability control than with Toyota stability control. Very low threshold of engagement, takes control of the car away from the driver, can be so slow to react to a sudden input that it doesn't react until the driver has corrected, leading to a seesaw type battle with the car, and even comes on driving down gravel roads for no reason at all.
I haven't tested Honda's system, but judging by the fact they can't even do electric throttle right, I doubt they hit a home-run with their stability control system, especially on an entrylevel car like the Fit.
This is what Edmunds had to say about the VSA on the Fit:
"Slalom: It appears that when VSA is shut off, stability and traction control are totally off. When VSA is left on, electronic intervention is mild and returns control to the driver readily. The fastest runs, however, proved to be with the system off, allowing the driver to drift the car a bit past each cone." So I'd say the Honda system is pretty decent.
Compare that to what they have to say about stability control on the Toyota Corolla:
"Totally numb steering system has a fairly linear yaw response with a mostly neutral cornering attitude. Obviously car is designed to understeer, and as when the car begins to rotate in quick transitions, VSC again clamps down. No need for the sporty hardware if the electric nanny sets the limits."
So it's not as obtrusive as Toyota's system... which admittedly isn't saying much, but as least you know it's not the worst out there .
And I guess it's also better than the system on the Hyundai Elantra Touring (which I was thinking about before getting the Fit) which Edmunds describes as "ESP on is old-school intrusive."
And for what it's worth, I agree that good drivers don't need any electronics to help them drive (people survived before ABS too)... but I haven't personally met a good driver yet (myself included, which I readily admit!). So for people like me, I think VSA would help. And even if I was a good driver, I'm not sure everybody driving my car (wife, girlfriend, boyfriend, whatever) would be able to handle the car in an emergency situation.
I think it'd be great if everybody got some track time to learn how to control their cars at the limits, but I doubt it's going to happen any time soon. I sure would have liked to know how to handle a swerve at 65mph on a track instead of on a highway .
Anyway, I would love to take a performance driving course... that'll probably be my next gift to myself in a couple years .
. VSA on - the car sticks to the line you started with...at the apex of the turn VSA engages and keeps you right on track through the turn.
2009 Fit Sport Tidewater blue/nav/auto/moonroof
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