2nd Generation (GE 08-present)The New Fit... Generation specific talk and questions here.
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I like this theory the best because it means if we're ever able to reprogram out the delay we won't have to worry as much about longevity
Program? It's a hydraulic system that incorporates a restrictive orifice. You just have to make the orifice larger once the restrictive point is identified. In my BMW it was actually the end of the hose from the hard line to the slave. I replaced it with the standard z3 hose because the z3 has a CDV between it's hose and the slave. By installing the non-M hose, i got rid of my restriction point and achieved a 'CDV Delete'.
I definitely agree though that it is NOT a characteristic of the electronic throttle control. That's a myth I wish would go away. Someone tell me how long it takes for electrons to move down a wire that's a few feet long (hint: electrons move at the speed of light).
The main problem isn't the speed of electrons, electric throttles can be done correctly (ie, fast acting) as I have witnessed in GM products. Many car companies choose to make the throttle pedal very disconnected from the throttle blades for whatever reason (emissions, 'drivability', etc.). When I talk about problems with electronic throttle, I'm talking about companies that use the electronics to seperate drivers commands from what actually happens. For most car companies those things come hand in hand with electric throttle.
But even the best drive by wire setups still have some detectable lag, even if it is less than 100ms. No matter what.. there will be lag if you're sending a signal to a computer, asking the computer to analyze that signal along with several others and produce an output. If you ever doubt how numbed up todays cars have become take an old carberated vehicle for a drive, it really is amazing the difference in throttle response between that and todays fuel injection/electric throttle stuff.
Program? It's a hydraulic system that incorporates a restrictive orifice. You just have to make the orifice larger once the restrictive point is identified. In my BMW it was actually the end of the hose from the hard line to the slave. I replaced it with the standard z3 hose because the z3 has a CDV between it's hose and the slave. By installing the non-M hose, i got rid of my restriction point and achieved a 'CDV Delete'.
The main problem isn't the speed of electrons, electric throttles can be done correctly (ie, fast acting) as I have witnessed in GM products. Many car companies choose to make the throttle pedal very disconnected from the throttle blades for whatever reason (emissions, 'drivability', etc.). When I talk about problems with electronic throttle, I'm talking about companies that use the electronics to seperate drivers commands from what actually happens. For most car companies those things come hand in hand with electric throttle.
But even the best drive by wire setups still have some detectable lag, even if it is less than 100ms. No matter what.. there will be lag if you're sending a signal to a computer, asking the computer to analyze that signal along with several others and produce an output. If you ever doubt how numbed up todays cars have become take an old carberated vehicle for a drive, it really is amazing the difference in throttle response between that and todays fuel injection/electric throttle stuff.
I think we're almost saying the same thing. In your second sentence you allude to induced delay. I wasn't saying that there's no delay/lag. I'm saying it's put there on purpose.
The CDV does make sense. Since I've had such a hard time rev matching on shifts I thought I'd just control the clutch engagement point better, but have had a very hard time getting a feel for where that point is. I was chalking it up to the complete lack of feel... but with the CDV that means the driver may feel the clutch bite at a different engagement point depending on how fast you're moving the clutch pedal.
Driving new cars seems to be alot like playing a video game over a slow internet connection. And it makes it harder to switch between vehicles as you have to figure out each ones 'lag'. For me... Scout = 0 lag, Toyota = ~50ms, Dodge ~200ms, Fit ~400ms + clutch lag.
I felt like a total moron trying to get out of the Honda dealership lot with the manual for the first time. I kept racing the engine against the clutch, or I'd be dangerously close to dumping the damn thing. I've been driving manuals for 3 years now, and while I'll admit I'm not the best out there, I do know what I'm doing.
This is kind of bizarre to me. I find the Fit to be a pleasure to shift and the clutch/shifter to feel great - some of the best I've ever felt in a FWD car, and certainly worlds better than say...a new VW Rabbit.
For a point of reference, my three main vehicles over the past year have been a 1996 Jeep Cherokee 4.0L 5spd, a 1993 Miata 5spd, and my autocross car, a 1984 Rabbit...The Fit is certainly no Miata, but it's up there in shifter feel and the clutch engagement is very natural to me. Sure, there's some rev-hang, but it's nothing I wasn't used to within 100 miles of buying the car. Low rpm's coasting in traffic in 1st and 2nd is very smooth for me, too.
Are there any aftermarket parts or kits that imporve the feel of the shifting or clutch?
I know there is the Mugen short shifter, but I dont know if that makes it feel any better. I just got my fit a couple weeks ago, and it felt pretty stiff and nice at first, but the shifting is feeling real loose now.
I too have had the shifter feel like its jumping out of gear on me, especially 1st. Like others have said, it's usually in the morning when I'm still half-asleep or when I'm just not paying attention.
Glad I'm not the only one having this problem.
I also agree that the problem is that I daily drove a 1991 Subaru Legacy before I got this car, which has throttle and clutch cables. Thus, I'm used to more direct controls.
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*Formerly subyluvr2212*
Der Wahnsinn ist nur eine schmale Brücke/die Ufer sind Vernunft und Trieb
[quote=mike2100;734997]I thought I was just crazy with the tranny popping on the 1-2 shift, especially after reading the raving reviews about the smooth shifting (car and driver I think compared it to an s2000).
............
In my own life, I drove both a 2002 S2000, and a 2009 Fit Sport with automatic. I may be wrong, but I would point out that the S2000 has an unusually efficient shifter mechanism. The shifter itself has a very short throw, and the rods connected to it go down a fairly short distance to join the transmission, which is a bit back into the cockpit. Very direct positive linkage. The Fit would have the same problem that almost any FWD car with crosswise engine has. The shift linkage must either be of the cable type, or else fairly complex with the necessary right angle bends to accommodate the transverse location of engine and transmission. That popping out of first gear issue may be either inefficient shifting technique or need for adjustment of the shift mechanism ( I think it is a cable??). I would point out that some careful throttle technique is required with the automatic transmission. It has a tendency to jump forward very suddenly from a dead stop unless throttle modulation is near perfect. Let's blame that on the DBW throttle.
Gah, I thought I was driving the car terribly when I started noticing the pop from 1st. I didn't know the Fit had a CDV and now that makes a ridiculous amount of sense.
Side note: when I took my car into the dealer for it's 1st oil change (last time I'll ever let the dealer touch my car for anything that ISN'T warranty), I complained to the service technician about this exact same problem (Clutch pops/kicks from first when cold and shifting), and he looked at me and asked "Is this your first manual car?".
I doubt I'll be using that dealer again, even for warranty.
if you're getting scratches from the transmission when going to reverse, try clearing the gear, by first shifting to first gear before shifting to reverse, while keeping the clutch depressed the whole time.
This thread sure makes me feel better. I've driven a stick ever since getting my license 24 years ago and never had as many shifting issues as with this car. I do get >100K per clutch, so I don't abuse them. Everything described above. If I make a conscious effort to be really slow and deliberate, no issue, leading me to believe the CDV theory. Presumably all my other cars didn't have one or it operated differently.
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08 Blaze Orange Sport
H-Fit SSI intake
H-Fit Short shift and solid mount shift kit
HFP exhaust
HFP 16" Wheels
205/45/16 Yokohama Avid 4S tires
SSR-60 DIY intake (60deg bend) with K&N filter
ive noticed it sometimes as well. It does not feel well when you shift from 1st to 2nd and you feel the pop. From what I figure, its just a new clutch that needs to be broken in. I'm betting you car is less than 2k miles? after 1.5k miles, the clutch felt MUCH better. It feels like butter now that ive driven it a while. I say after 2k, you would eventually get the timing down and the feel for the car that you wont get much popping out.
Another this is, how is you driving style? Is it mostly highway driving or street? I think you need to keep using all your gears in order for a good "break-in" for the clutch. If you mostly use highway driving, the clutch might feel a little "sticky".
I'm right at 1500 miles on mine. It's starting to behave a little more, but I guess I still need some time with it. I'll feel the car starting to die and I'll look down and I'm turning 1800 RPM. Next time I go to start again I feel the car dying and I'll only be turning about 900. It's got a sensitive throttle, and this is the first car I've ever driven with a drive by wire throttle ever.
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09 GE8 MT Sport, in Milano Red
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konservative
Im 6'5" and I have sat in the drivers seat but not test driven the GE. I fit quite well, the fit seemed huge on the inside for being a compact outside its crazy.
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