I did not look inside the brake drum but I would assume separate bearings and spindle is solid welded. To replace the entire axle seems extremely silly. Though I'd rather be a surprised pessimist than a disappointed optimist.

 

If it is conventional spindle there would be a removable dust cap protruding from the middle of the brake drum. Other arrangements would lack the cap.

EDIT:
Hmmm, I searched for 2015 rear wheel bearing assemblies and I find multiple Honda sources that show a self-contained bearing pack that unbolts from the axle beam. That arrangement *can* be shimmed.

Either that, or the drawings are leftovers, but they look pretty official.

http://estore.honda.com/honda/images.../T5A4B1900.png

 

Only the 1st gen Fit could be shimmed. NOT the 2nd or 3rd. You are going to confuse a lot of people.

 

So the 2007 Fit I sold, was in fact the only version that could be shimmed. That is one of those facts you don't learn until long after you trade a car. Oh well, my daughter does love her 2015 Fit (and she will hopefully never need to deal with the alignment issue). We will be watching the tread wear closely however.

 

Jim, what do you read on the middle of the page? HONDA FIT 2015 M E X I C O
What do you expect from Mexico? I think pretty soon China will be making cars, and we'll be buying them? I'm not saying to buy import cars made in USA - same things. Honda- Japanese car, and supposed to be build in Japan from 100% their materials and by 100% their people, period. Even though they have had build crappy cars too. With your organizing skills call everyone to return their Mexico cars to where they belong. let poor people there buy them!..

 

Has anyone actually had their rear drums off and verified that the current Fit does not have sealed hub assemblies bolted to the beam? I've looked at several on-line parts sources and all of them seem to show a beam with bolt-on hub assemblies. The drawings look like they come from Honda.

Here is the 2008 beam, the bearing spindles are clearly demountable:



Here is the 2013 beam, the spindle is not shown exploded away from the beam but it might be demountable:


And here is the 2015 beam:



The 2015 has a bolt-on sealed bearing assembly, a more modern design than the older spindle:



The fact that the new-style sealed bearing pack bolts on means that it can be shimmed.

To correct 0.2 degrees of toe with this setup would require a shim about 15-20 thousandths of an inch thick.

Now, I'm just going by the parts drawings which may be wrong so I hope that someone will do an exploratory surgery behind their rear brake drums and see what really lurks there.

 

Interesting research George.


I'd be willing to check it out and take a picture when I get some daylight. Say this weekend? If one were to remove the tire and chock the wheels with the E-brake off, the drum should just slide right off right? I should then be able to see if there is a standard 4 bolt pattern to attach the brake/spindle assembly to the beam?


When I looked underneath the car when installing my trailer wiring I saw no bolt holes behind the drum assembly, I only saw the welded hub. If removing some parts reveals the bolts then maybe I could have been wrong.

 

Based on the drawings, it looks like the spindle mount bolts go directly into the beam, which must be machined/threaded to receive them (with no nuts).

Be curious to see what you find…

EDIT - if indeed the spindle is bolt-on, this also means there's opportunity for the aftermarket to create and offer a disc brake setup.

es

 

That appears to be how it goes together. Not the best arrangement for service down the road as the bolts can corrode to the welded-in nuts on the beam. I'd give them a bit of anti-sieze the first time I had the drum off.

Still, it means that shims can be placed between the hub and axle beam to correct alignment issues. The dealer can't do it because the shims aren't a Honda part, but the aftermarket can provide what will be needed.

 

Maybe a steering wheel that's not dead center, or a pronounced pull in either direction, or excessive effort for the car to trsck straight, or numerous other valid reasons to which you may be oblivious. Point is OP owes you no explanation. If his nondjustable rear is out, he's in for long term issues. You can wait till 37k miles to access your suspension alignment when you are SOL. 85 percent of all new vehicles leave the factory out of slignment spec, and I shoulf know having worked in a pit of the spring and axle line of a vehicle assembly plant. 20 petcent out og spec was good enough to get the build manifest stamped for completion. If that's not good enough for the potential owner, Honds will bend over to make it right as long as your threats are not idle BS, which 90 percent usually are. Honds knows most owners with s legit gripe will never dig in and litigate. Too much trouble, too hard, too lttle knowledge to make it happen.

 

(Just FYI, Alberttiex's post is spam about a casino game. That seems to be true of all of his posts. A moderator should ban him and delete his account.)

 

I agree that he does not "owe" me any explanation, but if he is going to ask everyone to go and spend $50.00-$70.00 on an alignment (one week before Christmas), then I don't think it unreasonable for him to explain the circumstances surrounding his request (which by the way, he did). Particularly since he would be using the results of everyone's alignment, to bolster his own case with Honda.

As for the reasons YOU listed, all are valid concerns. I think I even listed one of those in my post, when I said if the car was not tracking correctly.

In the mean time, I will do what I have alway's done, and that is to monitor my tread wear whenever I rotate our tire's, which is frequently.

I would like to add that I am actually grateful to Jim (the OP), for pointing out this potential problem, which served to reinforce my belief tire rotation is critical for long term tire life. Otherwise I may have gotten lazy and not payed as much attention to the issue as I should , particularly, as you pointed out, that in your opinion 85% of all new cars leave the factory with poor alignment, something else I was not aware of.

 

What? I'm not calling anybody a racist, but these comments on Mexico are 100% based on cultural and racial stereotypes of a country and a people with no real justification for them; just an "am I right?" kind of tone. Why exactly are you immediately equating Mexico with shoddy products? Are you implying they are too lazy to build a car? Are you implying they are too uneducated to build a car? Are they too poor to do a good job? The country has been portrayed as corrupt and crime-ridden, so clearly the people trying to live there MUST be incapable of doing anything good. Have you been to Celaya, or anywhere in Mexico, recently? My guess is no. People like you that make comments like this just have a vague sense of Mexico/Mexican people and you find justification for those views in people reporting problems with their cars that happen to be from Mexico; problems that you probably never researched to see if the Japanese built Hondas had, because I'm positive new models from new factories have problems like this no matter where in the world they happen to be made.

Let poor people by them? Your comment is akin to "Mexicans right? Building shitty cars for poor people because they are poor!" I'm not going to hurl insults across the internet, but...are you kidding? I don't mean to single you out, but this was the grossest comment to this effect that I've read in 6 months.

My Fit tracks beautifully. On the highway, I will track straight for MILES without correcting (seriously, I've gone 2 miles in a straight line without moving the wheel). I can't imagine anything would be improved by an alignment; I have 10,000 miles, no tread wear problems and no tracking problems. Should I care that some machine might measure me being "out of spec"? I have had 0 problems with my car, fit, finish, or mechanically speaking, and my VIN is in the early 12,000s. I'm not denying there have been problems, but don't think you are being wise by equating them with Mexico and Mexicans.

Feliz Navidad, Senior Alejandro.

 

Last post obviously written by a Hispanic, hence thr perception of discrimination. Nobod here has spoken badly of Mexicans, though in a PM I'd be happy to express my true beliefs.

This is about Honda making a Fit in Mexico for less money due to cheaper labor; hence, less need for expensive automation and less need for skilled trades to program and service the robotics and electronic measuring systems most hi tech plants use to detect vatiations in spec unobservable to the human eye. That is the root cause of quality deterioration in Mexican built Fits, nothard working assembler like Pedro or Guadalupe. The responsibility and blame rests squarely on the shoulders of American Honda.

Same scenario in China on the labor and automation, and now the locally sourced Chinese steel to boot. Ask how many Canadians are takong delivery of Chinese built Fits with rust already behind the door weatherstrip seals. I guess noe we're sladering the chinese. NOT.

When the argument doesn't hold water, then bu all means show your racism by invoking race.

 

Actually, I have not one drop of Hispanic blood in my veins, nor do I care about your "true beliefs," nor did I call anybody a racist. Nor did I perceive or express any kind of discrimination. I said blaming everything on Mexico is a view based on cultural and racial stereotypes, which is 1) true and 2) distinctly separate than the overused "racism" narrative that I think you are alluding to. I think my point is best explained through your own "Pedro/Guadalupe" comment, and your offer to explain your "true beliefs," which I'm sure are very well researched and founded on empirical fact rather than on stereotypes. When somebody says "the car has problems because Mexico," they are not talking about cost cutting, and if they are, they could find a better way to express that.

If it's about corporate cost cutting, then talk about corporate cost cutting. Cost cutting happens in all countries; Honda could have built a plant in your backyard in Maryland and the goal would still have been cost cutting. Mr.Alex comment didn't mention a thing about cost cutting. He said "M E X I C O" which is neither here nor there.

When you misinterpret something and feel like someone is race baiting, then by all means, glaze over the heart of their point and reduce the conversation down to them being a sensitive "hispanic." You did more to prove my point than to refute it.

 

Actually, m-x, my comments were directed to the person who made the "Mexican" comment, not you. Next time I will rrspond to a direct quote, as I will respond to you now. No need to nail your point home nor refute it. I have no regard for illegal Mexicsnswho work in the US under the table and double dip from Medicaid and Social Services while wearing designer clothes and purses, effectivelu taking from people who are here legally, whatever their ethnicity. So, there you have my beliefs. I eill not sprnd additional paid bandwidth proving that, in fact, I harbor my share of ethnic ptejudice. If you have any, can you admit yours?

CIAO and AMF.

 

Well, I'm sorry that I'm not educated enough to understand all philosophical expressions that you placed in your comments. And I have not planned to go deeply about Mexico or Mexicans. But, if you want just few facts. I had visited Mexico (Ensenada- Bajo California) for two times, and many of my friends still doing that- we do help people there with humanitarian aid gathered by our church, we do build church building there, we do fix houses for people there,- everything for free. We have to pay for living there, for travel incl. crossing corrupted border. I have friends there. But, what I have found many people there are poor because they are not fighting enough to live better. We have fixed houses (my shed is better than one of those houses) where people sitting on a floor do watch TV. Almost everybody have satellite antenna.They have money to pay for that but no money to fix a house, buy a bed...
But I'm proud of Mexicans who escape their country, come here and try to do better for their lives, lives of their families, including who are left behind. They - are hard working people... But my previous comment was not about all these things. It is about who is making a particular car. One fact. I have Toyota Sienna 12, at 10K I had to take it to a dealership to remove an engine and to reseal a leaking chain cover. Why? Because this Japanese van was built in USA, not in Japan. And I'm not alone with USA built car. Most of my previous cars ware made locally too. Chevrolet van was @ 55K when I had to get rid of it before major problems arise. This is sneaky tactic provided by manufacturers: to sell import cars built locally. People rely on foreign product proved to be reliable, pay more, but buy cheaply made car, manufactured locally or at near by areas: Canada or Mexico. Everyone can admit (ex.so-called "patriots") that the best automakers are located in Germany and Japan. We, Americans, like comfort. But cars are not couches to be rated by comfort; a car is a machine which is rated based on efficiency and reliability. And these qualities belong neither to American nor Mexican automakers. That is all I wanted to say.

 

Umm, Mexico is not behind the Iron Curtain and their citizens are free to leave at will. They aren't "escaping."

Any manufacturer starting an operation in a newly-developed area with an untrained labor force faces a steep learning curve. Honda's decision to use less automation and more manual labor exacerbated this issue. With robots, the parts have to be right to go together correctly, but humans can "bash to fit." Other quality-reducing factors include a brand-new design and new and untried technologies such as the cheaper 3-coat, 2-bake paint process.

Combine all of these and it's very difficult to avoid quality problems. It seems as though Honda made a strategic decision to take on all the potential risks at the same time rather than tackling them individually.

 

What the eff guys lets get back to the original topic. Ill be checking out the hubs at some point this weekend if they are able to be shimmed or not

 

[QUOTE=GeorgeL;1283133]Umm, Mexico is not behind the Iron Curtain and their citizens are free to leave at will. They aren't "escaping."

While traveling to Mexico with humanitarian aid we wouldn't be able to cross the border pointing at the stuff and explaining "This is a help for your people". Border officials say:"Mexico is not poor country to get a help from America". We had to explain differently. This is just one of the proofs that Mexico is behind the Curtain - Iron or Rock, I don't know. Yes, back to the topic, as we all here, on this forum, are mechanics - not philosophers.