Manual transmission or Automatic/CVT, pros and cons.
#41
12-25-2016, 01:10 AM
The first Honda I owned with CVT was a 250cc Helix scooter. I'd ride it to medical appointments that were 200 miles round trip rather than take my R-1100 GS BMW motorcycle.. I bought a VW Passat Wagon with CVT that was totalled by a hit and run driver and replaced with a 2005 Audi A6, also with CVT.. My wife was wanting a new Outback but didn't want to drive a car that wasn't equipped with a manual transmission but a short drive in the VW wagon convinced her that CVT was a good thing.. Our Kubota tractor and a couple of motorcycles are the only vehicles here that have clutches.
I simply prefer manual transmissions, learned to drive on a POS 3 on the tree 1950 Chevy ... then a slightly better 54 Plymouth. Then came a couple of Tempests (4 cylinder, V8), GTO, Corvair, Civic Wagon, Civic EX, Civic Si, Vega, Sunfire. Fit EX. Automatics? Yup, parents' Olds 98, mother-in-law's Corolla (boring), Buick Century (meh), Suzuki SX4 (pretty good 4 speed auto).
This morning (Thursday 12/29), 4 would be carjackers added some credence to my contention that a manual transmission is a security/anti-theft feature. Nitwits surrounded a guy in his car, two had guns. The driver bailed to call the cops. But he didn't lose his car. None of the dummies knew how to use that third pedal near the door? Unfortunately they left before the cops arrived. I don't know the brand or model of the car.
A friend has an early 30s fer real hot rod with a small block Chevy V8 and a 2 speed aluminum case Powerglide. Why a 'Glide, Art?" "The last thing I want is a positive shift."
Last edited by KentFinn; 12-30-2016 at 12:04 AM.
#42
12-29-2016, 10:16 PM
The CVT puts less wear on the engine. I cannot quantify amount, but here is why. With the CVT the engine rpm is somewhat constant while the rpm with a manual transmission changes between 2000-4000 rpm between shifts to accelerate or decelerate. The changing angular velocity of the rotating parts of the engine; crankshaft, bearings, and journals creates an acceleration associated with the changing velocity, therefore, creates a force (Newton’s law F=ma) that put more wear on the engine rotating parts. The CVT puts less force on the rotating parts because the engine rpm changes less when you accelerate and decelerate.
#43
12-29-2016, 10:50 PM
τ=Iα is the formula for torque (the rotational analog of force); F=ma applies to straight-line force.
Last edited by Buck Fitty; 12-29-2016 at 10:52 PM.
#45
01-10-2017, 03:33 PM
I will continue to promote the fact that the Fit is a utility car and the CVT is the choice of 9/10 drivers, including myself who still own a manual Porsche 911 Turbo. No CVT here. I do not think Honda would introduce the CVT in the Fit unless they feel it is reliable. It has been proven in the Civic for I don't know how many years. A class action suit would be extremely costly and damaging to Honda if the transmission was not durable and reliable. Like it or not, for low torque 4 cylinder cars, the CVT is the future just as all electric autonomous cars. Of course those who prefer the 6 spd manual transmission can enjoy the car too. 
Last edited by wasserball; 01-11-2017 at 10:04 AM.
#46
01-11-2017, 09:35 AM
i came from manual shift for the last 14 years, to my 15 fit cvt. i was very leary for the first few months of ownership. but, it has never failed, no stupid shift patterns etc. and with -34C and alot of snow this year, i have actually come to love this cvt. it hooks up nice on ice, with factory firestones to boot. put lightweight rims on her in the summer and the car is actually fun to drive, for a daily.
#47
01-11-2017, 12:16 PM
Def CVT in SF. I tried to drive those hills in SF the last time I was up there and my clutch paid for it ..never again....
#48
05-09-2020, 05:59 PM
I have an '07 Fit Sport MT bought in 2011 from 2nd owner with 123,000 miles. It now has 220,000 mi and still happy. I also test drove an '07 Fit Sport with automatic. The MT was peppy and fun to drive. The automatic was a s-l-u-g by comparison. Throttle response especially at highway speeds was eventual. If there's any difference in fuel economy it's not enough for me to care. I'd rather have peppy and fun anyday vs. slow and boring. I'm basically an MT guy, with 5 Porsches in the garage, only one of which is automatic (2014 Cayenne GTS).
My only issue with the drivetrain on my '07 Fit Sport MT is the same complaint many others have. Gearing in 5th is way too short. When I drive in the American West where there are plenty of roads with posted speed limit 80mph, I'm doing 85 like most of the other cars on the road and I hate the buzzing of a poor 'lil 4 banger whizzing like an overtaxed sewing machine. I wish Honda made different gear ratios available and I'd change 4th and 5th to longer gearing. Years ago with the 1970 911S that I still own since 1972, I did the opposite. Tightened the spacing between all 5 gears and what a difference it made. That car's original top speed was 144. I put shorter gears in which dropped the 20-100mph time by 2.5 seconds. The penalty? Top speed "only" 130. Getting there that much quicker is way more fun. Porsche made 36 different gears in the 1966-1971 model years. Mostly for racing and hillclimbs. If only Honda made just two or three optional gears.
My only issue with the drivetrain on my '07 Fit Sport MT is the same complaint many others have. Gearing in 5th is way too short. When I drive in the American West where there are plenty of roads with posted speed limit 80mph, I'm doing 85 like most of the other cars on the road and I hate the buzzing of a poor 'lil 4 banger whizzing like an overtaxed sewing machine. I wish Honda made different gear ratios available and I'd change 4th and 5th to longer gearing. Years ago with the 1970 911S that I still own since 1972, I did the opposite. Tightened the spacing between all 5 gears and what a difference it made. That car's original top speed was 144. I put shorter gears in which dropped the 20-100mph time by 2.5 seconds. The penalty? Top speed "only" 130. Getting there that much quicker is way more fun. Porsche made 36 different gears in the 1966-1971 model years. Mostly for racing and hillclimbs. If only Honda made just two or three optional gears.
Last edited by KwazyKwaig; 05-09-2020 at 06:02 PM.
#49
05-10-2020, 11:34 AM
I have an '07 Fit Sport MT bought in 2011 from 2nd owner with 123,000 miles. It now has 220,000 mi and still happy. I also test drove an '07 Fit Sport with automatic. The MT was peppy and fun to drive. The automatic was a s-l-u-g by comparison. Throttle response especially at highway speeds was eventual. If there's any difference in fuel economy it's not enough for me to care. I'd rather have peppy and fun anyday vs. slow and boring. I'm basically an MT guy, with 5 Porsches in the garage, only one of which is automatic (2014 Cayenne GTS).
#50
05-11-2020, 01:24 PM
ditto on the 6 speed has as security device . as far as the CVT is concerned , the pros - your wife can drive it , the cons - your wife can
drive it
drive it
#51
05-12-2020, 12:07 AM
#53
05-12-2020, 02:00 AM
Oh, I see. Sorry for my misunderstanding.
Well, believe or not, here in Finland most people still drive manual and many people cannot drive automatic. They are trying to press clutch and they hit brake causing accidents, or they try to shift up and move the selector to R or P in considerable speed breaking the transmission. But it's all about the need to learn what you need to do.
Well, believe or not, here in Finland most people still drive manual and many people cannot drive automatic. They are trying to press clutch and they hit brake causing accidents, or they try to shift up and move the selector to R or P in considerable speed breaking the transmission. But it's all about the need to learn what you need to do.
#54
05-12-2020, 05:20 AM
I do not believe that most people can not drive a manual trans vehicle. Around here we have 3 drivers and a combination of vehicles. Some manual and some auto. I drive an automatic Equinox and a manual Colorado. My wife drives an automatic Blazer. My daughter drives a manual Honda Fit. We all actually drive all of them. In my extended family (Brother and sister) and their children all can drive either type. It must be a regional thing because it sure is not that way around here.
#55
05-12-2020, 08:14 AM
Most people don't care to drive a manual. Some claim to be so much more fun. If that is so, the car manufacturers don't want you to have fun anymore.
Last edited by wasserball; 05-12-2020 at 09:01 AM.
#56
05-12-2020, 10:15 AM
I might be an old geezer like you, but I'm smart one. All my BMWs and Porsches were/are manual. In the end I bought the CVT over the 6 spd because it provides higher gas economy, operates the engine at a lower rpm to reduce engine wear, and lower noise level from the engine at highway speed. Lastly, my left foot is relaxed as is my right hand. In the old days, people bought manuals because they got better gas mileage on their economy cars, but not anymore. The CVT wins over the 6 spd as far as economy goes. The Honda Fit was designed as a cheap utility car. Take it for what it is and you will be happy. It has abundant amount of room for those shopping trips, and it gets great gas economy for long trips for one or two people. That's why 99% of the Fits are fitted with the CVT. I test drove a 6 spd manual and found that it wasn't fun, it was work! Just because it has a manual doesn't make it a sporty fun car when the suspension and the steering feel like a heavy bloated Buick. The Fit is not a sporty car, not even close. Have you seen a Honda Fit at an autoX negotiating a sharp turn? The inside rear wheel lifts off the ground just like most other front wheel driven cars. Check out the attached photo showing the inside rear tire of the 2nd generation Fit. It is off the ground. I'm the photographer for both Porsche and BMW local autoX events. You lose steering control when the wheels are not planted to the ground! And, I read that the 2nd generation Fit was much "sportier" than the 3rd current generation, which has a softer suspension. BTW, the driver is a member of this forum. He's going to get upset with me. You bought the wrong car if you wanted the Fit to be sporty as with C&D who bashed their 2015 EX with the 6 spd manual long term test car because it was not sporty enough. Finally, it's OK if you just like a manual.
Yes, most front wheel drive and AWD cars lift a rear wheel especially in the street classes where suspension changes are limited to reduce costs. My AWD understeering pig WRX really started to lift the wheel when I put the biggest rear sway bar on I could find in an attempt to make the car rotate. Many who race in the street classes take the same approach. Without getting into a debate about suspension setup, a big rear bar is the popular approach in the SCCA street classes where only one bar change and any two way adjustable shock is allowed. This keeps costs down. Cars also then tend to lift the rear wheel.
I've autocross my Fit when my WRX was down. Sure it was outclassed in HS or H street compared to the Fiesta ST or the eight generation Civic Si, but it was all I had to race unless I wanted to beg for a co-drive.
#57
05-12-2020, 10:22 AM
Yea, I bought a 2019 Hyundai Elantra Sport with the 6 speed manual transmission. The car is basically a Velocetor stretched and widened to fit a Elantra body. Standard Elantra has a beam rear suspension similar to the Fit or a minivan. The Sport has an independent rear suspension. Anyway, when my dealer searched there were only two within 500 miles of Chicago. I was probably lucky to have found one. A week later Grassroots Motorsports did an article on it calling it Hyudia's unicorn. I believe the sports only came in CVT in 2017 and 2018? For the 2020 MY they went back to CVT only. I'm estimating only a couple hundred in the states were manual.
#58
05-12-2020, 10:26 AM
The CVT puts less wear on the engine. I cannot quantify amount, but here is why. With the CVT the engine rpm is somewhat constant while the rpm with a manual transmission changes between 2000-4000 rpm between shifts to accelerate or decelerate. The changing angular velocity of the rotating parts of the engine; crankshaft, bearings, and journals creates an acceleration associated with the changing velocity, therefore, creates a force (Newton’s law F=ma) that put more wear on the engine rotating parts. The CVT puts less force on the rotating parts because the engine rpm changes less when you accelerate and decelerate.
#59
05-12-2020, 10:27 AM
I had a friend who was visiting overseas. One of my friends offered to let her to borrow her car for something and she responded, "that's ok, I don't know how to drive an automatic." lol
#60
05-12-2020, 11:47 AM
i drove a fit with a CVT about a year before i picked up my '19 6 speed . my first impression after that first drive was , nice car , but kind of a noisy tin can
vibe to it . a year later i drove a 6 speed , dead silent , nice .don't know what kind of mileage the CVT's are getting , but the 6 speed is averaging me around
36 MPG mixed driving . i went 240k with my '02 SI ,same clutch, i plan to get at least 200 with the fit , not sure far the CVT will get me
vibe to it . a year later i drove a 6 speed , dead silent , nice .don't know what kind of mileage the CVT's are getting , but the 6 speed is averaging me around
36 MPG mixed driving . i went 240k with my '02 SI ,same clutch, i plan to get at least 200 with the fit , not sure far the CVT will get me