Rear air shock absorber mod
#1
Rear Air Strut mod
EDIT:
I need some help guys. I'm planning on tackling this project in the next few weeks now that the winter is essentially over and the temp isn't bone chilling cold. Figure this sub-forum would be best to answer it. I have Monroe MA811 MAXX Air shocks I want to retrofit for the GK, but one detail is eluding me. I cannot look at this upper stem bushing to get the right size to put on the Monroe struts. I have no intention of removing it from the stock strut, looks too risky, and the part looks fairly standard from the looks of it, just wondering if anyone has done this mod to the GK yet and if they have dims of this bushing???
YOU WILL NEED TO RE-USE THE METAL BUSHINGS THAT ARE SCREWED ONTO THE STOCK STUDS, .....
6. Clamp the 5mm Allen wrench in the jaws of the bench vise. Put the long end of the wrench horizontally between the vise jaws with the short end sticking up vertically. On both stock shocks, remove the rubber mounting pad and the lower retainer (washer), save those parts, and pull off the dust boot. Turn the shock upside down and put the stud hex socket onto the Allen wrench in the vise. Adjust your Vise-Grip pliers to get a firm, but not crushing grip on the shiny, smooth sided bushing that is screwed onto the threaded stud. Attach the plier jaws near the upper end of the bushing, away from the crimp that was stamped into the bushing near the bottom end of it. The bushing is high on the stud, just under the plastic bump stop. It looks like this:
The metal bushing that you are trying to salvage has already been removed, and is to the left of the threaded stud.
This metal bushing is soft- probably a zinc alloy. It has been crimped, or stamped, to keep it from unscrewing accidentally. The Vise Grips will allow you to unscrew it by turning it clockwise (the shock is upside down). It will turn with some resistance, but it is fairly easy once you get past the first couple of turns. The last few turns can be done with your fingers. You will see some soft metal smeared into the threads of the stud, but the threads are not harmed. The smeared bushing material can be cleaned off with the correct size of die, or even a wire brush if you ever want to reinstall the stock shocks.
I need some help guys. I'm planning on tackling this project in the next few weeks now that the winter is essentially over and the temp isn't bone chilling cold. Figure this sub-forum would be best to answer it. I have Monroe MA811 MAXX Air shocks I want to retrofit for the GK, but one detail is eluding me. I cannot look at this upper stem bushing to get the right size to put on the Monroe struts. I have no intention of removing it from the stock strut, looks too risky, and the part looks fairly standard from the looks of it, just wondering if anyone has done this mod to the GK yet and if they have dims of this bushing???
YOU WILL NEED TO RE-USE THE METAL BUSHINGS THAT ARE SCREWED ONTO THE STOCK STUDS, .....
6. Clamp the 5mm Allen wrench in the jaws of the bench vise. Put the long end of the wrench horizontally between the vise jaws with the short end sticking up vertically. On both stock shocks, remove the rubber mounting pad and the lower retainer (washer), save those parts, and pull off the dust boot. Turn the shock upside down and put the stud hex socket onto the Allen wrench in the vise. Adjust your Vise-Grip pliers to get a firm, but not crushing grip on the shiny, smooth sided bushing that is screwed onto the threaded stud. Attach the plier jaws near the upper end of the bushing, away from the crimp that was stamped into the bushing near the bottom end of it. The bushing is high on the stud, just under the plastic bump stop. It looks like this:
The metal bushing that you are trying to salvage has already been removed, and is to the left of the threaded stud.
This metal bushing is soft- probably a zinc alloy. It has been crimped, or stamped, to keep it from unscrewing accidentally. The Vise Grips will allow you to unscrew it by turning it clockwise (the shock is upside down). It will turn with some resistance, but it is fairly easy once you get past the first couple of turns. The last few turns can be done with your fingers. You will see some soft metal smeared into the threads of the stud, but the threads are not harmed. The smeared bushing material can be cleaned off with the correct size of die, or even a wire brush if you ever want to reinstall the stock shocks.
Last edited by Bassguitarist1985; 03-24-2015 at 02:20 PM. Reason: double post, then added relevant info for inquiry
#2
BUMP! More info, Need some guidance please
Trying to save some time by having the right size spacer bushing in hand instead of taking off a stock strut, measuring, then going to the local hardware shop or garage to get the proper part.
Album of the current parts and preliminary research:
Unofficial Honda FIT Forums - Bassguitarist1985's Album: Air Strut Suspension Mod & Rear Axle Alignment
My other thread has extensive writeups on my research for the GK. Should it be needed for clarification, You can find it here.
https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/3rd-...ack-pearl.html
Album of the current parts and preliminary research:
Unofficial Honda FIT Forums - Bassguitarist1985's Album: Air Strut Suspension Mod & Rear Axle Alignment
My other thread has extensive writeups on my research for the GK. Should it be needed for clarification, You can find it here.
https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/3rd-...ack-pearl.html
Last edited by Bassguitarist1985; 03-22-2015 at 09:38 PM.
#3
Trying to save some time by having the right size spacer bushing in hand instead of taking off a stock strut, measuring, then going to the local hardware shop or garage to get the proper part.
Album of the current parts and preliminary research:
Unofficial Honda FIT Forums - Bassguitarist1985's Album: Air Strut Suspension Mod & Rear Axle Alignment
My other thread has extensive writeups on my research for the GK. Should it be needed for clarification, You can find it here.
https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/3rd-...ack-pearl.html
Album of the current parts and preliminary research:
Unofficial Honda FIT Forums - Bassguitarist1985's Album: Air Strut Suspension Mod & Rear Axle Alignment
My other thread has extensive writeups on my research for the GK. Should it be needed for clarification, You can find it here.
https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/3rd-...ack-pearl.html
I think I know what you're talking about...
When I changed my rear shocks, I didn't have to drill the sleeve to remove it. That's a shock design change from GE to GK.
I have pics of it disassembled in my thread. I reused the factory sleeve on the Koni shock.
Unless you're saying the shock shaft on your air shock is bigger or something, and the factory sleeve spacer doesn't fit on the air shock?
My Koni's acually came with another set of those, as well as top hat washers that I didn't use.
#4
There's pics of it disassembled here. The sleeve just slides off on the GK shocks. This job is really easy.
https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/3rd-...springs-3.html
https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/3rd-...springs-3.html
#5
There's pics of it disassembled here. The sleeve just slides off on the GK shocks. This job is really easy.
https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/3rd-...springs-3.html
https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/3rd-...springs-3.html
Wow your thread is perfect!!!!!!!!! Thank you so much! If it slides off then ill just swap them. I was afraid that spacer bushing was crimped or threaded on. I didnt want to damage the stock struts at all. I want to keep them as a way to bring it back to stock if i ever trade my 15 in.
#6
Yes check out my album. Shaft diameter is bigger than stock. However test fitting shows they wont interfere with wheel clearance. I'll check tonight but there is no need to reuse the factory bump stop as the Monroe's have one built in. I welcome feedback on this piece. This is where im unclear of the process
Last edited by Bassguitarist1985; 03-22-2015 at 09:41 PM.
#7
Are you sure it is bigger? It looks like it talks about reusing the stock hardware.
I'm not sure how the airshock will incorporate the upper tower pad and water seal. I would have to see it fitted.
The tube spacer is just to prevent all the rubber parts from being crushed when tightened. I'm not sure how all the parts will fit on the dome shaped shock.
I'm not sure how the airshock will incorporate the upper tower pad and water seal. I would have to see it fitted.
The tube spacer is just to prevent all the rubber parts from being crushed when tightened. I'm not sure how all the parts will fit on the dome shaped shock.
#8
Are you sure it is bigger? It looks like it talks about reusing the stock hardware.
I'm not sure how the airshock will incorporate the upper tower pad and water seal. I would have to see it fitted.
The tube spacer is just to prevent all the rubber parts from being crushed when tightened. I'm not sure how all the parts will fit on the dome shaped shock.
I'm not sure how the airshock will incorporate the upper tower pad and water seal. I would have to see it fitted.
The tube spacer is just to prevent all the rubber parts from being crushed when tightened. I'm not sure how all the parts will fit on the dome shaped shock.
Now your picture here tells me the upper stem is the same size as the stock for length, There will be no need to reuse the bump stop. The stock waterseal though will need to be reused, and the nut that came with the Monroes to secure it to the strut tower.
I'll need to see how the upper stem sandwiches together with the stock retainer hardware. I have a youtube video in edit for the entire install. Soon as I get a decent sunny day that isn't whipping wind around or too chilly I'll be tackling this asap.
Last edited by Bassguitarist1985; 04-11-2015 at 10:14 PM.
#9
If you can see, the bump stop snaps into th bottom of the tower pad. That's why it is lighter in color. The tube spacer is still inside the pad here. I'm not sure how you'll eliminate the whole piece without it.
The plastic shield, bumps top, and shock tower pad assembly all sort of snap together. You'll see when it's apart.
The plastic shield, bumps top, and shock tower pad assembly all sort of snap together. You'll see when it's apart.
#10
If you can see, the bump stop snaps into th bottom of the tower pad. That's why it is lighter in color. The tube spacer is still inside the pad here. I'm not sure how you'll eliminate the whole piece without it.
The plastic shield, bumps top, and shock tower pad assembly all sort of snap together. You'll see when it's apart.
The plastic shield, bumps top, and shock tower pad assembly all sort of snap together. You'll see when it's apart.
Can you measure the threaded portion of the stock strut for me? I want to see if there is any length difference to the Monroe's I have. If they are the same fine. If the Monroe is shorter than stock then i got a problem. If the monroe is longer than stock then reusing the bump stop will help, but it wont be functional limiting the strut travel. The monroe has its own bump stop internally
#11
From the shoulder (the tube spacer will butt against) to the very end of the threads is 75mm (3"). In my pic, the part of the pad that snaps onto the bumper is facing down.
The end you see is placed up against the body of the car.
The thin outer ring that you can see on the pad is the seal. It is also removeable. My question is with out the bumpstop I'm not sure how the pad will be held up against the car.
The bumper is actually designed to contact the shock body because it really serves as a supplemental spring. Eliminating that will reduce the effective spring rate. Hopefully the air shock compensates.
The end you see is placed up against the body of the car.
The thin outer ring that you can see on the pad is the seal. It is also removeable. My question is with out the bumpstop I'm not sure how the pad will be held up against the car.
The bumper is actually designed to contact the shock body because it really serves as a supplemental spring. Eliminating that will reduce the effective spring rate. Hopefully the air shock compensates.
#12
Here are the specs for the MA811 I got:
http://www.monroe.com/assets/downloa...ifications.pdf
S4 is the code of the stem. That means it is 2 and 3/8" inches long. The thread pitch is a 3/8"-16. The stem sounds a bit shorter than OEM
The lower mount code is LS4, means the inner sleeve is a 10MM, and the overall length is 1 and 3/8". It is smaller than OEM. This is why the washers the MA811 comes with for the top stem are to be used to take up the space on the lower mount, and the OEM hardware reused for the upper mount. ***What is the stock overall length of OEM lower mount?
Like your Koni's the Monroe's are shorter in their extended length than the stock OEMs. The other thread mentioned the MA793 is the proper (23.750" for the MA793 vs 22.250" for the MA811) extended length, but lacks the correct sized lower flange bolt bushing (larger 12MM sleeve and 1.5" OAL) requiring a "Spanner Bushing" /spacer for the OEM lower bolt or do it right and have a shop press the correct size bushing in for the Honda lower mount. I guess that's an option too.
Unless I got the wrong size Monroe shock for the GK, I think that I'll either wind up either cutting the stock bump, not use the bump stop at all, reuse the OEM bushing spacer, and mount.
From the other thread: "On the air shocks, there is no dust boot, or rather, the dust boot is sealed to the lower shock body by the rubber air bag. You can't use the factory bump stops because you can't get inside the air bag part of the air shocks. There may be bump stops inside the air shocks, but the air chambers pretty much eliminate the need for a bump stop."
Thoughts?
Could you look at the PDF file I posted and see what you think for possible alternatives? If I need them?
I plan on tackling this on Saturday morning. If at the very worst take one shock off and do some more homework and test fitting before permanently mounting them.
http://www.monroe.com/assets/downloa...ifications.pdf
S4 is the code of the stem. That means it is 2 and 3/8" inches long. The thread pitch is a 3/8"-16. The stem sounds a bit shorter than OEM
The lower mount code is LS4, means the inner sleeve is a 10MM, and the overall length is 1 and 3/8". It is smaller than OEM. This is why the washers the MA811 comes with for the top stem are to be used to take up the space on the lower mount, and the OEM hardware reused for the upper mount. ***What is the stock overall length of OEM lower mount?
Like your Koni's the Monroe's are shorter in their extended length than the stock OEMs. The other thread mentioned the MA793 is the proper (23.750" for the MA793 vs 22.250" for the MA811) extended length, but lacks the correct sized lower flange bolt bushing (larger 12MM sleeve and 1.5" OAL) requiring a "Spanner Bushing" /spacer for the OEM lower bolt or do it right and have a shop press the correct size bushing in for the Honda lower mount. I guess that's an option too.
Unless I got the wrong size Monroe shock for the GK, I think that I'll either wind up either cutting the stock bump, not use the bump stop at all, reuse the OEM bushing spacer, and mount.
From the other thread: "On the air shocks, there is no dust boot, or rather, the dust boot is sealed to the lower shock body by the rubber air bag. You can't use the factory bump stops because you can't get inside the air bag part of the air shocks. There may be bump stops inside the air shocks, but the air chambers pretty much eliminate the need for a bump stop."
Thoughts?
Could you look at the PDF file I posted and see what you think for possible alternatives? If I need them?
I plan on tackling this on Saturday morning. If at the very worst take one shock off and do some more homework and test fitting before permanently mounting them.
Last edited by Bassguitarist1985; 03-24-2015 at 11:21 AM.
#14
I just ordered the MA793 shock kit. It has the exact compressed, travel, and extended length as the OEM. It has the same stem length as the MA811, and a 12mm ID lower sleeve but longer overall length of yoke. I will not need the washers but I will need two spanner bushings with a 12mm OD and 10mm ID to adapt to the GK which i ordered too.
I'll take pics and report back. The good news is I can throw the MA811 kit i have for sale on here (brand new unused) to someone who has a GE or GD. It will most certainly work for those as its been proven on the forums before. My loss that GE/GD owners gain.
Last edited by Bassguitarist1985; 03-24-2015 at 11:50 PM.
#15
Further research:
1. MA793 lower mount is 1.5" and the GK lower mount will accept a 40mm mount. this makes the MA793 a much better choice for the GK along with a 12mm OD x 10mm ID x 42mm OAD spanner spacer bushing instead of the MA811
2. MA793 has a longer extended length. I will confirm how much closer to the OEM this is. I believe they are nearly equal within an inch.
3. The upper stem is 2 and 3/8" long according spec. 1" inch of the stem is threaded, the rest is shank. This is 2.375" inches (~60mm) overall length. This may pose a problem, but hopefully not.
To compare to a Koni Honda Fit rear shock 8050-1131, The 10mm diameter upper mounting pin is 74mm long of which 43mm is a non-threaded shank at the base of the pin.
1. MA793 lower mount is 1.5" and the GK lower mount will accept a 40mm mount. this makes the MA793 a much better choice for the GK along with a 12mm OD x 10mm ID x 42mm OAD spanner spacer bushing instead of the MA811
2. MA793 has a longer extended length. I will confirm how much closer to the OEM this is. I believe they are nearly equal within an inch.
3. The upper stem is 2 and 3/8" long according spec. 1" inch of the stem is threaded, the rest is shank. This is 2.375" inches (~60mm) overall length. This may pose a problem, but hopefully not.
To compare to a Koni Honda Fit rear shock 8050-1131, The 10mm diameter upper mounting pin is 74mm long of which 43mm is a non-threaded shank at the base of the pin.
Last edited by Bassguitarist1985; 03-26-2015 at 03:34 PM.
#16
Spanner Bushing, reducer 12mm to 10mm sleeve
Carbon Steel Spanner Bushing Spacer Reducer 12mm OD x 10mm ID x 42mm Long: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
You will need two of these to adapt the lower eye mount of the MA793 from 12mm to the 10mm bolt size of the GK suspension.
Will provide pictures & video once it comes in.
Cheers.
#17
Mocked up the MA793s today and compared them to the MA811 Monroe shocks. There some glaring differences, however nothing that can be adapted to for one's application. As flimsy as the air line kit appears to be, at actually works quite well. I did a leak down test with it holding 70psi and no leaks at all!
I got part 1 of my video series put together. The wind has been gusting over 50mph today. Lots of sun, but not ideal when you have a car on a jack.
I mention it in my video, but the tee fitting creates a "see-saw" effect i do not like. Also the 1/8" air line is hard to find fittings and adapters for. I ordered a 1/4" in line shut off valve to close off one shock from the other. Then ordered some 1/4" to 1/8" push to fit adapters for quick easy installation. That should reduce the body roll effect when unevenly loaded or making a quick turn, with or without a trailer.
I got part 1 of my video series put together. The wind has been gusting over 50mph today. Lots of sun, but not ideal when you have a car on a jack.
I mention it in my video, but the tee fitting creates a "see-saw" effect i do not like. Also the 1/8" air line is hard to find fittings and adapters for. I ordered a 1/4" in line shut off valve to close off one shock from the other. Then ordered some 1/4" to 1/8" push to fit adapters for quick easy installation. That should reduce the body roll effect when unevenly loaded or making a quick turn, with or without a trailer.
Last edited by Bassguitarist1985; 04-04-2015 at 05:37 PM.
#18
@JHN, Thank you very much for your thread and pictures. I did some test fitting today with the MA793 and looks like its going to be a much better match than the MA811. I will say that the MA811 COULD work, but it will have a much shorter extended length. This may cause problems, then again it may not, but there is a calculated risk with any mod altering from stock config. The MA793 has a longer extended length and longer overall travel. With the stock bump stop removed and the longer MA793 will work just fine I'm thinking.
1. The spanner bushing MAY need to be cut flush to the MA793 lower eye. The lower mount on the axle is 40mm, and the spanner is 42mm long. You are able to slide the bushing through where the lower bolt goes. The key word is maybe, I'll know for sure when I install everything for good.
2. I was able to obtain a 1/8" to 1/8" adjustable flow control valve from MettleAir. The good thing is I can Use it as a shut off valve, or use it to restrict the seesaw effect I was worried about. I can adjust how much "give" and "response" they have by controlling the air flow through the tee. Gives me the adjustment range i was looking for!
Some pictures and video for those interested.
Thank you for reading. Hope this thread helps others. If any moderators would like to sticky this thread I'd be honored. All the best everyone!
Bass
1. The spanner bushing MAY need to be cut flush to the MA793 lower eye. The lower mount on the axle is 40mm, and the spanner is 42mm long. You are able to slide the bushing through where the lower bolt goes. The key word is maybe, I'll know for sure when I install everything for good.
2. I was able to obtain a 1/8" to 1/8" adjustable flow control valve from MettleAir. The good thing is I can Use it as a shut off valve, or use it to restrict the seesaw effect I was worried about. I can adjust how much "give" and "response" they have by controlling the air flow through the tee. Gives me the adjustment range i was looking for!
MettleAir MSCA1/8-1PK Push to Connect Inline/Inflow Speed Control Fitting, 1/8" OD: Other Products: Amazon.com: Home Improvement
Some pictures and video for those interested.
Thank you for reading. Hope this thread helps others. If any moderators would like to sticky this thread I'd be honored. All the best everyone!
Bass
Last edited by Bassguitarist1985; 04-11-2015 at 10:15 PM.
#19
Ahh cool, glad I could help. Those shocks look quite a bit shorter than OEM. I suppose as long as you have some sag in the rear suspension after its on the ground it should be good. Shorter length at high pressure will prevent the rear suspension from overextending as well. Looks great.
#20
Ahh cool, glad I could help. Those shocks look quite a bit shorter than OEM. I suppose as long as you have some sag in the rear suspension after its on the ground it should be good. Shorter length at high pressure will prevent the rear suspension from overextending as well. Looks great.
Last edited by Bassguitarist1985; 04-11-2015 at 10:16 PM. Reason: New idea, testing out theory, benificial info.