L15 head/cam work?

[sonorliteman]

I was browsing around the J's Racing site through a translator and noticed they seem to offer head porting services for the L15.

Just thought I'd see if anyone has seen any results of the L15 with the known bolt-ons and head porting or cam swaps. Doesn't have to necessarily be from J's, but I wonder if anyone has heard about how this engine responds with this. My opinion so far regarding bolt-ons is that their effectiveness will be limited until the head gets opened up (also cam swaps).

[03DSM-RSX]

lets say there are cams/head work available, how would you tune it?

i say find how/what the spoon/ajr cars are using for engine management first before thinking about any serious engine work. i believe one of the companies had assistance from Hondata, running a reflash that accomodates the mods.

[sonorliteman]

Not as concerned about tuning when I asked this question, as I don't intend to do this anytime soon.

I assume that those who have gone this far have found solutions, as you suggest, possibly through Hondata. I just want to know what the engine is capable of doing...it seems evident to me that the cyl head & cam are the limiting factors of getting anything above 120-130 hp NA.

[03DSM-RSX]

you cant neglect the tuning aspect. tuning is the key to how much power you make and how well the motor responds to the mods. you can port/cam all you want, HP is still determined by how good the tune is as you need to adjust fuel accordingly to the increased amount of air flowing in. Just bc Person A gets XXXwhp from a setup, doesnt mean Person B will get the same. And just b/c Hondata helped Spoon/AJR, doesnt mean they'll do the same for the general folks. I know this first-hand.

it seems evident to me that the cyl head & cam are the limiting factors of getting anything above 120-130 hp NA.

what do yo mean by this? if the Fit dynos stock at around 80whp, 120-130whp is pretty damn good for cammed/bolt-ons N/A.

[sonorliteman]

Originally Posted by 03DSM-RSX

you cant neglect the tuning aspect. tuning is the key to how much power you make and how well the motor responds to the mods. you can port/cam all you want, HP is still determined by how good the tune is as you need to adjust fuel accordingly to the increased amount of air flowing in. Just bc Person A gets XXXwhp from a setup, doesnt mean Person B will get the same. And just b/c Hondata helped Spoon/AJR, doesnt mean they'll do the same for the general folks. I know this first-hand.



what do yo mean by this? if the Fit dynos stock at around 80whp, 120-130whp is pretty damn good for cammed/bolt-ons N/A.

I can indeed neglect the tuning aspect for the sake of discussion. Let's be clear: I'm assuming the car has been re-tuned by a competent person to optimize the setup. The setup meaning a full-bolt I/H/E car with the addition of head work, and possibly a different cam. I'm not asking about tuning, and I do know how important it is. This aside, I'm asking to get an idea of how much of an impedance the head design is to the engine's response to bolt-ons.

But it sounds like outside of 2-4 specialty tuners in Japan, nobody has really messed with our little engine that much.

It has been mentioned before that, as set up from the factory, the Fit is pretty much optimtized (no power to be found by tuning). Bolt-ons that I've seen will produce only 10-15 hp, like the T1R package. My numbers were more or less flywheel...I don't think you can get 130 wheel hp purely with the T1R products. The manual trans cars are putting closer to 90-95 hp to the tires, whereas the AT cars are usually 10-15 hp lower.

[JDM_FIT]

does BEN using a greddy blue engine management on his L15a? maybe he could help us

[quangalang]

i wish hondata made a tunable piggy back ecu for the l15

[Chikubi]

I can't say anything for American tuners, but the only Japanese tuner I've seen that is doing head/cam work and posting figures is Top Fuel. They claim 142.7 PS w/ the ability to rev to 8k. They're using an in-house custom cam and tuning w/ an HKS F-CON V Pro, so unfortunately no data on just the headwork alone and no EMS. They also don't mention what bolt-ons, if any, they're using to get that figure, though they suggest using their intake, manifold, big-bore throttle body, and a good muffler on the tuning menu.

For the record, Last Station uses and sells a Greddy e-manage system available for just the stock engine, or also mapped for using their intake, cams, etc. NOBLESSE also is offering tuning services now using the HKS V Pro, but they post no figures and make no mention of using special cams (though they are doing the most extensive engine work out of the tuners I've seen), so no idea what gains they're getting. HKS Kyushu also runs a V-Pro in their setups, but their tuning is limited to the EMS, and custom intake/exhaust manifolds.

http://www.topfuel.info/shop/index.html#head

http://www.club-miniban.com/speng.html

http://laststation.com/products_subcp.htm

http://www.hks-kyusyu.co.jp/note/not...at=13&mynum=37

[sonorliteman]

Thanks Chikubi...this is more or less the info I've been wanting to see:
"They claim 142.7 PS w/ the ability to rev to 8k".

I have no doubt the little engine can be built N/A with a good combo of bolt-ons and cam/head porting and produce good numbers, but I just wanted to see it done.

I wonder what the RPM limit of the stock internals is...do you know if Top Fuel had to change the rods out?

[Chikubi]

Originally Posted by sonorliteman

I wonder what the RPM limit of the stock internals is...do you know if Top Fuel had to change the rods out?

Nope, they just work on the heads, so stock rods. Only one who's touching the bottom end is NOBLESSE with custom pistons, balancing, etc., and even then they're still using the stock rods, although replacing the bushings, balancing, etc. NOBLESSE is going more for race durability I think than power, although I'm sure the power comes out nonetheless. I should drop them an email and see what they say.

[jrovic]

Hey Chikubi, what comes with 354,900 yen from the package of topfuel? Cant read jap... All I can understand is 147ps at 8000rpm and the price.

[Chikubi]

Originally Posted by jrovic

Hey Chikubi, what comes with 354,900 yen from the package of topfuel? Cant read jap... All I can understand is 147ps at 8000rpm and the price.

No problem! That, sir, comes with (in the order they list):

Head removal and overhaul (dissassembly, cleaning, etc.)
Head re-facing (to boost compression)
Port job
Combustion chamber rework
Valve work
Original high camshaft
New gaskets, seals, etc.
New Oil and plugs
HKS F-Con V Pro and harness
Complete setup and tune

Total price 354,900 yen, or about $2,900.00 USD.

[jrovic]

thanks Chikubi! Can we buy just the camshaft alone?

[God75]

Originally Posted by Chikubi

No problem! That, sir, comes with (in the order they list):

Head removal and overhaul (dissassembly, cleaning, etc.)
Head re-facing (to boost compression)
Port job
Combustion chamber rework
Valve work
Original high camshaft
New gaskets, seals, etc.
New Oil and plugs
HKS F-Con V Pro and harness
Complete setup and tune

Total price 354,900 yen, or about $2,900.00 USD.

Bro for this set up USD 2900 is cheap.
Can we just get the Valve, Cams and HKS F-Con V pro with harness?

[Chikubi]

From what I see, no, the cams are not posted on the site as a separate part. The F-Con anyone can purchase as it's just a HKS product, but you'll have to tune it yourself or find a good shop to do it for you. I'm assuming there's a stock harness for it as some other companies use it as well like I mentioned earlier.

[jrovic]

Originally Posted by Chikubi

From what I see, no, the cams are not posted on the site as a separate part. The F-Con anyone can purchase as it's just a HKS product, but you'll have to tune it yourself or find a good shop to do it for you. I'm assuming there's a stock harness for it as some other companies use it as well like I mentioned earlier.

Regarding F-con,I asked one of hks' export agent in Japan and they told me they cant supply me a harness for the fit. I guess you'd have to find someone to hard wire it.

[kimo]

I have ported twice in my pervious cars and they made very good power mostly in high end. check DH-Racing - Import Performance Specialists he is consider the best porting for Honda in US.

[Chikubi]

Originally Posted by jrovic

Regarding F-con,I asked one of hks' export agent in Japan and they told me they cant supply me a harness for the fit. I guess you'd have to find someone to hard wire it.

Yeah, looks that way -- I went and checked HKS' site and nothing for the Fit. Maybe you could buy it just from Top Fuel if you contacted them, even though it's not listed.

[jrovic]

Originally Posted by kimo

I have ported twice in my pervious cars and they made very good power mostly in high end. check DH-Racing - Import Performance Specialists he is consider the best porting for Honda in US.

Kimo, how do you go about it? You ship them your head?

[kimo]

Yes you ship them you head or you buy used head.

Originally Posted by jrovic

Kimo, how do you go about it? You ship them your head?