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L15A running TD05H 14b + Water/Meth?

  #281  
Old 01-28-2011, 10:27 PM
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I can't even begin to explain the quirks of the PCM and auto tranny. One 0-60 run it's like a solid coupling, another it's like a slush box. I truly think I would need a cracked PCM to have the slightest clue what she is doing. The esm offers no help.
 
  #282  
Old 01-28-2011, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Lyon[Nightroad]
I can't even begin to explain the quirks of the PCM and auto tranny. One 0-60 run it's like a solid coupling, another it's like a slush box. I truly think I would need a cracked PCM to have the slightest clue what she is doing. The esm offers no help.


Did you change the trans fluid?
 

Last edited by SilverBullet; 01-29-2011 at 06:19 PM.
  #283  
Old 01-31-2011, 05:51 PM
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  #284  
Old 01-31-2011, 08:57 PM
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Thanks when right to my library.
 
  #285  
Old 03-13-2011, 02:31 PM
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Here is more tech.

Anglo American Oil Company Ltd good info on both sides

Joe Gibbs Driven - Training Center
 
  #286  
Old 03-13-2011, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by SilverBullet
Here is more tech.

Anglo American Oil Company Ltd good info on both sides

Joe Gibbs Driven - Training Center

Good stuff, I just got through your PM!

I saw what you meant about their filter philosophy.. and you are right in that (depending on filter media) the stuff that can slip by the filter and cause the trouble rarely gets caught. Especially when you change them often.

The part I disagreed with is that if you leave a filter on for 2 or more changes, since they are particulate filters they filter better as they catch more stuff. To a point all particle filters work this way. As they collect more crap they trap smaller particles that would have otherwise made it through.

So as long as it doesn't do weird things to my oil pressure, I leave my filters on for 2-3 changes.




Unfortunately my budget has been set back a bit on the turbo build for my Fit, but things are finally starting to come together.

I had a friend donate me a 30" long, 12" tall and 4" thick intercooler core, so the 28X12X3 intercooler on the my laser will be going on the Fit.. if it will tuck behind the bumper! It came off his 8sec rail dragster, and at 45psi boost, he only saw 3psi pressure drop!

I have been trying to talk to Neukin about re-visiting their old 14B/16G manifolds since they only carry T3/T25 flanges now, so that has been a bit of a set back.

They also raised their prices to almost $500!
 
  #287  
Old 03-13-2011, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by DiamondStarMonsters
Good stuff, I just got through your PM!

I saw what you meant about their filter philosophy.. and you are right in that (depending on filter media) the stuff that can slip by the filter and cause the trouble rarely gets caught. Especially when you change them often.

The part I disagreed with is that if you leave a filter on for 2 or more changes, since they are particulate filters they filter better as they catch more stuff. To a point all particle filters work this way. As they collect more crap they trap smaller particles that would have otherwise made it through.

So as long as it doesn't do weird things to my oil pressure, I leave my filters on for 2-3 changes.




Unfortunately my budget has been set back a bit on the turbo build for my Fit, but things are finally starting to come together.

I had a friend donate me a 30" long, 12" tall and 4" thick intercooler core, so the 28X12X3 intercooler on the my laser will be going on the Fit.. if it will tuck behind the bumper! It came off his 8sec rail dragster, and at 45psi boost, he only saw 3psi pressure drop!

I have been trying to talk to Neukin about re-visiting their old 14B/16G manifolds since they only carry T3/T25 flanges now, so that has been a bit of a set back.

They also raised their prices to almost $500!

A full flow oil filter strains keeping the dirt suspended and does collect dirt but not as much as people think. A bypass filter hooked up off the pressure switch and returned to the oil pan can filter down to 1 micron because of the low oil volume.

I think I agree about leaving a full flow on for 2 oil changes but the first sentence is confusing? I have the filter change every oil change but thats because the dealer changes it.

You need to get your spare parts and barter them for parts for the Fit. My son is very good at that and thats how he builds his engines. He bought a b16a2 for some parts and sold what he didn't need and the block for more than he paid.
 
  #288  
Old 03-13-2011, 04:36 PM
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I was on the Joe Gibbs site just a few days back myself. You speaking of particulate filters reminds me of a filter I had on my one of my Harleys that I believe had stainless steel filtering medium that had to be removed, disassemble, cleaned in solvent, dried and replaced every 1000 miles... If you didn't the valve train noise that incurred would let you know about it... I was using Amsoil then and the filter saved me money on changes as well as providing some peace of mind.. I was going into that engine all of the time and it was amazing how clean it was inside, something that I had never seen before on a bike with a wet clutch.... Now on topic... I got a VC2 W/M kit in from Cooling Mist yesterday along with a 1 1/2 gallon tank that the pump attaches to a recess in.. It also has a controller that can be used with voltage from a sensor and or boost and a LED boost read out... The tank is a bit large so a little creative surgery on interior panels below one or the other tail lights is going to be necessary to not block too much of the rear hatch opening... I'm just hoping that I can get it all figured out and done by myself.. My chubby little helper is finally reaching puberty and is as worthless as I was during that period of my life... He has been riding or driving something or other since he was seven and finally has become interested in riding a bicycle and losing some weight so I need to get one of my bikes road worthy so I can ride with him.. I know that fat rascal isn't going to be any faster or last any longer than me.
 

Last edited by Texas Coyote; 03-13-2011 at 04:57 PM.
  #289  
Old 03-13-2011, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Texas Coyote
I was on the Joe Gibbs site just a few days back myself. You speaking of particulate filters reminds me of a filter I had on my one of my Harleys that I believe had stainless steel filtering medium that had to be removed, disassemble, cleaned in solvent, dried and replaced every 1000 miles... If you didn't the valve train noise that incurred would let you know about it... I was using Amsoil then and the filter saved me money on changes as well as some peace of mind.. I was going into that engine all of the time and it was amazing how clean it was inside, something that I had never seen before on a bike with a wet clutch.... Now on topic... I got a VC2 W/M kit in from Cooling Mist yesterday along with a 1 1/2 gallon tank that the pump attaches to a recess in.. It also has a controller that can be used with voltage from a sensor and or boost and a LED boost read out... The tank is a bit large so a little creative surgery on interior panels below one or the other tail lights is going to be necessary to not block too much of the rear hatch opening... I'm just hoping that I can get it all figured out and done by myself.. My chubby little helper is finally reaching puberty and is as worthless as I was during that period of my life... He has been riding or driving something or other since he was seven and finally has become interested in riding a bicycle and losing some weight so I need to get one of my bikes road worthy so I can ride with him.. I know that fat rascal isn't going to be any faster or last any longer than me.
Here is what your talking about Pure Power Oil Filters High Performance Motor Oil . Its a good filter but people say that it dont filter the dirt but neither does any filter. They also have a magnetic piece in there for the metal parts.

With gas prices going up, You will need to get a bike fix anyways. The only problem is when the temps get hot, you will be back in the car. Maybe get a motorcycle and that would be the best of both worlds.
 
  #290  
Old 03-13-2011, 05:04 PM
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I have a few motorcycles already but they all need work right now.. The Fit gets almost as good fuel mileage as the two big ones and got about the same as the biggest before I got the high boost upgrade.. Now that there is road to my place now I can get back and forth on the Goldwing so I should go ahead and put the body work back on it.... after I figure out what form of boost I can put on it.
 
  #291  
Old 03-13-2011, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Texas Coyote
I have a few motorcycles already but they all need work right now.. The Fit gets almost as good fuel mileage as the two big ones and got about the same as the biggest before I got the high boost upgrade.. Now that there is road to my place now I can get back and forth on the Goldwing so I should go ahead and put the body work back on it.... after I figure out what form of boost I can put on it.
I am putting to many miles on the civic and my wife wants to trade cars. I told here no way. She beats the c??p out of her car and would do the same to mine. Need to get the van up and running but needs more than brakes right know. Here is some info on the gold wing. NGW Club--Goldwing Forums
 
  #292  
Old 03-13-2011, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by SilverBullet
I am putting to many miles on the civic and my wife wants to trade cars. I told here no way. She beats the c??p out of her car and would do the same to mine. Need to get the van up and running but needs more than brakes right know. Here is some info on the gold wing. NGW Club--Goldwing Forums
There are some Brits that have a Rotrex kit for the 1500cc Valkyries and there are kits for other older models with carburetors but the for the 1800s there were a few guys that were trying to work up some turbo kits for street use with only partial success.. This thing has a single throttle body injection set up like a pre 96 GM truck.. My wife loves to ride and we have talked of converting it to a Tri-Car like these. Tri-Cars I think with all of the added weight it would need boost to really be any fun.
 
  #293  
Old 03-13-2011, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Texas Coyote
There are some Brits that have a Rotrex kit for the 1500cc Valkyries and there are kits for other older models with carburetors but the for the 1800s there were a few guys that were trying to work up some turbo kits for street use with only partial success.. This thing has a single throttle body injection set up like a pre 96 GM truck.. My wife loves to ride and we have talked of converting it to a Tri-Car like these. Tri-Cars I think with all of the added weight it would need boost to really be any fun.
I like it too. Its would be nice to drive around and still have room for a cooler.
 
  #294  
Old 03-16-2011, 02:42 AM
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Just got myself a seriously monstrous IC core for the race car, 30" L x 13" H x 4" D:




So now the GD will be getting the other 3" core currently on the Laser:

(3" core vs. the original stock intercooler)

Here is what the smaller 3" core looks like on the front of the car:




I am gonna have a hell of a time fitting that behind the Fit's bumper...
 
  #295  
Old 03-16-2011, 04:40 AM
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Good luck! I had to cut out sections of bumper to fit my 28x8x3. The good news is that even though I'm far away from ideal efficiency i never see heat soak or temps 5 above ambient. With that much overkill I doubt you'll ever see anything but ambient. One of the few advantages of barely flowing 20cfm

It's good to see I'm not the only one who refuses to spend good money on frivolous things like gauge pods
 

Last edited by Lyon[Nightroad]; 03-16-2011 at 04:51 AM.
  #296  
Old 03-17-2011, 03:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Lyon[Nightroad]
Good luck! I had to cut out sections of bumper to fit my 28x8x3. The good news is that even though I'm far away from ideal efficiency i never see heat soak or temps 5 above ambient. With that much overkill I doubt you'll ever see anything but ambient. One of the few advantages of barely flowing 20cfm

It's good to see I'm not the only one who refuses to spend good money on frivolous things like gauge pods
Ya angle iron worked just fine. My UEGO is hanging off the dash too!

Your still moving a good deal of air for a 1.5L!

With the old IC on pump gas only tune (28-29psi) if my coolant is 190-200F and ambient is 70F, after idling for a while IATs can creep to 100-120F and over a standing mile pull that will actually drop to as low as 80F

On my high boost tune (35-38psi) it would creep up to 130F and I would start to have timing pulled by the ECU. It didn't help that I have no exhaust shielding and only the wastegate dumptube was wrapped. Coolant temps would also rise.. so the rad hoses are getting wrapped too.

So now in addition to extensive wrapping, I am adding an SS exhaust mani heat shield:


Massaging a 30x11x3 FMIC into the GD bumper will be a task. I am not thrilled about losing the OE fog lights, but I can always go for some aftermarkets like PIAA. Fitting a 30x13x4 into the Laser will also require yet more bumper cutting. Function>Form.
 

Last edited by DiamondStarMonsters; 03-17-2011 at 03:20 AM.
  #297  
Old 03-17-2011, 04:11 AM
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So I havent posted anything useful in here for a while it feels like, so here is a bit of DIY flow optimisation I performed the last few weeks.

After feeling like there was more to be eeked out of my intake system I went through and did a rough approximation of my pressure drop across the core, the swing in temp from the exducer on the compressor wheel to the throttle body as well as flow velocity and found some interesting numbers.

I lose about 4psi across the intercooler at 38psi, so fortunately that still keeps me withing the efficiency island I want as well as the compressor speed lines left on the map. My turbo is built to support pressure ratios as high as 55psi, so 38 + 4 only puts me at 42psi, or a PR of ~3.0.

So now that I have determined that the charge cooler is up to the task it is time to work my way through the rest of the intake, so lets start at the cone filter..

Let me preface this by saying in revisiting the rough calculations I did the first time, I am shocked I was able to move as much air as I do, and that this next round of surgery on the Laser should yield some big gains in flow. I want to push this turbo to its choke flow!

So originally I only intended on being able to do 40lbs/min on pump gas because it is a relatively small turbo, only 59mm at the inlet.

All my calculations were only intending to see 400whp worth of air on pump gas, while I knew that when I turned up the wick I would be using a different fuel and the smaller intake system would yield greater flow velocity which means more torque.

And that all turned out to be true, but I didnt think I would be pushing 60lbs/min in an internally wastegated .55A/R turbine housing on a 74mm exhaust wheel..so I in tuning purely for torque, I lost out on top end VE.

This is why I got the bigger core and changed my IC piping and air filter.

So starting with the air filter on the pre-turbo intake pipe.. for 400whp I established I will need about 40lbs/min according to my engines brake specific fuel consumption.

40lbs/min at 0.076lbs/ft3 makes for 525cfm. Ideally you want about 120-140ft/min charge face velocity entering the intake system to reduce restriction as much as possible.

So 525cfm divided by 130ft/min gives us an area of 4ft2.

4ft2 times 144in2/1ft2 gives us 580in2 minimum filter surface area required to meet this goal.

Now how the f*ck do I figure out the SA of a cone filter? Well not so bad really..
 

Last edited by DiamondStarMonsters; 03-17-2011 at 05:12 AM.
  #298  
Old 03-17-2011, 04:18 AM
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So now the we know the required SA for the filter it is time to find a filter that fits the bill.

Just so happens that there is a popular and affordable 9"L 4"-5"W cone filter from K&N with a 4" mouth. So does it have the SA to flow at the rate we need to make 400whp efficiently?

We need to know:
Pleat height
Pleat depth
# of pleats

So the one I have is 9" pleat height, with .55" pleat depth and about 60 pleats.

SA (in2) = Height times Depth times # of pleats times 2 [for each side of the (pleat)]

SA = 9 x .55 x 60 x 2

SA = ~590in2

590in2 > 580in2 so it'll work but just barely. That is with a 9" x 5" filter with a 4" outlet! And it is just enough for only 400whp!
 
  #299  
Old 03-17-2011, 04:32 AM
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Now the next part is how big should my pre-turbo intake pipe be? Well thats easy.. as big or bigger than the compressor inlet. In my case that is 4", and 4" the pipe shall be.

That was easy enough, so how big do the post compressor charge pipes have to be? Well again I am just using the 400whp (525cfm) figure for this demonstration... so lets take a look.



Post turbo you want to keep flow face velocity within a certain sweet spot. That is about 200-300ft/min.

So what I chose was 2.75", which has a cross section of 0.04ft2, so 525cfm will have a face velocity of about 215ft/sec, which is acceptable.

Velocity = Volumetric Flow Rate / Pipe cross section

Velocity = 525cfm / 0.04ft2

Velocity = ~215ft/sec

Because I know it will be on the big size for 400whp, but it also needs to be able to handle my high boost tune which is moving 600whp worth of air, or about 790cfm.. and even then 790cfm / 0.041ft2 gives me a face velocity of ~325ft/sec, which again still works with the 200-300ft/sec sweet spot.

Now to make things more confusing I am also accounting for changes in temperature and pressure across the system all the way to the cylinder head.

Something peculiar happens right at the throttle body elbow that helped me keep my decision to go with 2.75" charge pipes.. my water/meth kit cools the charge so effectively it becomes denser as it enters the manifold and the "tight" piping keeps flow velocity up as it enters the manifold and runners while it is simulataneously shrinking in volume and consequently flow velocity.

To yet further complicate things my thought process also had to account for how all of this would affect the vaporization and required activation energy on my 4 different fuel constituents.

I expect the charge air to remain relatively warm since it leaves the turbo at around 260F and after the IC and piping it then enters the heat soaked manifold and cylinder head where it starts to heat up again,

This heat helps the alcohol atomize and absorb heat, yet leave enough energy in to allow the toluene and gasoline to light off with relative ease.

Because the combination of the alcohol, water, toluene and premium gas resists knock so well, I can leave the charge temps relatively warm.

So then I can be aggressive in my spark timing and fuel scheme. The cooled but still warm charge allows the fuel to spray fine and even, but the residual heat means even a weak spark can burn the whole mixture and rapidly.

.
.

Now here is the part that was kind of shocking.. for 600whp (790cfm) you want an exhaust that flows ~1300cfm to keep any significant restriction at bay. This calls for a minimum of 4" exhaust from the engine all the way to the tail pipe

Velocity = Volume Flow Rate / Pipe Cross section

Velocity = 1300cfm / 0.087ft2

Velocity = ~250ft/sec

So if you are only looking to make 250whp, you should be looking at a 3" minimum exhaust pipe from the engine back.
 

Last edited by DiamondStarMonsters; 03-17-2011 at 04:59 AM.
  #300  
Old 03-17-2011, 06:40 AM
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Good info! Also reminded me to stop using cfm for lbs/min... I'm definetly going with a good ole electric exhaust cut out. I'll just use the programable 12v out on the fmic so it only opens on wot and positive boost levels. I have driven open downpipe and it is such and incredibly brutal yet beautiful experience. The noise would strike fear in... Anything.

Right now I'm still making up my mind on if I'll even try to pull the head or just buy a 10k used engine for $800 shipped. I'm leaning towards new engine and throw the old one on a stand to build as parts become available.
 

Last edited by Lyon[Nightroad]; 03-17-2011 at 06:44 AM.

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