Turbo opinions wanted. thinking about developing a kit

[underdog]

Hi I don't post on here all two often, but i've been thinking about developing and marketing a turbo kit for the fit. i'm not new to fabrication or boosting. i've done everything from a scrapped together homemade turbo kit making 250whp d16z6 all the way up to a fully built divided t4 topmount 631whp b series monster and a few other dsm, ford, mazda manifolds/ downpipes.
the few questions I had for the potential consumers are.....
are there any brand specific guys out there?
does every one like the tried and true garretts?
or as long as it functions correctly are you guys open to borg warner, KKK, mhi, ihi, ect...?
also how many guys out there would like to have a ball bearing upgrade as an option?
How big of an issue is C.A.R.B certification? I know the cali guys need this.
any imput or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

[Shaggs2Dope]

ball bearing for sure, C.A.R.B. is a must, cops are dick in Cali. fuel management and cooling upgrades would be nice for a complete package. Gotta have a good reliable clean install. As factory looking as possible is important. Not chrome, black/silver/charcoal powdercoat on everything. Difference is in the details

[underdog]

here are a bunch of pics of one car I did. everything was fabbed by me. manifold, downpipe, dumptube, catch can, charge pipes, bungs on the valve cover, nitrous and vacume block. ingnore the rice. lol Honda-Tech.com: Forced Induction: My B20 LS/Vtec turbo T04R dyno's and some pics
and a few other misc pics of my most recent work.

[underdog]

Originally Posted by Shaggs2Dope

ball bearing for sure, C.A.R.B. is a must, cops are dick in Cali. fuel management and cooling upgrades would be nice for a complete package. Gotta have a good reliable clean install. As factory looking as possible is important. Not chrome, black/silver/charcoal powdercoat on everything. Difference is in the details

I'll have to do more research on the C.A.R.B. legalities to see what is involved getting it certified.
Fuel management is a must.
Cooling upgrades? intercooler will be included. I'll also be keeping an eye on oil temps to see if an oil cooler will be a needed item since I do live in AZ.
I agree attention to detail is key. I hate chrome!! most likely i'd offer raw aluminum look(cheapest) polished, and possibly powdercoating. I would aim to deliver a complete kit and maybe even offer a oilpan core program(have a pre tapped pan and you pay a core charge and send in your pan after install and be credited the charge, to add to the simplicity for those who want it) i'll have to look into hazmat laws on shipping the used pan in.

thanks for the input. keep them coming guys.

[dickiez]

Originally Posted by underdog

Hi I don't post on here all two often, but i've been thinking about developing and marketing a turbo kit for the fit. i'm not new to fabrication or boosting. i've done everything from a scrapped together homemade turbo kit making 250whp d16z6 all the way up to a fully built divided t4 topmount 631whp b series monster and a few other dsm, ford, mazda manifolds/ downpipes.
the few questions I had for the potential consumers are.....
are there any brand specific guys out there?
does every one like the tried and true garretts?
or as long as it functions correctly are you guys open to borg warner, KKK, mhi, ihi, ect...?
also how many guys out there would like to have a ball bearing upgrade as an option?
How big of an issue is C.A.R.B certification? I know the cali guys need this.
any imput or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

oooo this thread is relative to my interest

if you were to make a kit
how much would you see yourself charging???

In making innercooler piping are you going to see if you can keep the Fog lights attached???

and would you give the option of just buying the manifold/downpipe/turbo
and allowing us to do the rest???
because that would be awesome hahaha

[quangalang]

Journal bearings to keep cost down, BB turbos are super duper overrated.

[quangalang]

underdog, you should build your kit first then market it. you are doing it backwards lol.
might i suggest trying to develop a tubular top mount or somehow do a side mount? dude once you get behind the motor you'll realize that there is virtually no room to fit anything back there. i built a top mount log manifold and it's still a pretty tight squeeze but i think i can fit a 57 trim turbo back there, i dont think youd be able to fit anything bigger than 47 trim if you went with a bottom mount.
and forget about the fog lights, i got rid of mine and i was lucky enough to keep my charge pipes 2.5in through out.
keep this thing fully custom, there are enough kits out there that are built for the average incompetent person.

[kelsodeez]

make a supercharger/turbo setup. use a big turbo and use a supercharger for the lowend to get the big turbo spooling, then BAM! boost kicks in and your fit goes flying.

[Kyle is raaddd]

Originally Posted by kelsodeez

make a supercharger/turbo setup. use a big turbo and use a supercharger for the lowend to get the big turbo spooling, then BAM! boost kicks in and your fit goes flying.

in theory that kicks serious ASS kelso haha!!

[underdog]

Originally Posted by dickiez

oooo this thread is relative to my interest

if you were to make a kit
how much would you see yourself charging???

In making innercooler piping are you going to see if you can keep the Fog lights attached???

and would you give the option of just buying the manifold/downpipe/turbo
and allowing us to do the rest???
because that would be awesome hahaha

pricing is to far out to be known at the moment. turbo selection is going to be a key factor on pricing. I do however plan on being very competitive with the kits on the market.

I would like to retain the factory fog lights but it is tight down there. we'll see.

I see nothing wrong with selling things peice by peice, although it will be a better deal to buy it as a system.(time is worth a price as well)

[underdog]

Originally Posted by quangalang

underdog, you should build your kit first then market it. you are doing it backwards lol.
might i suggest trying to develop a tubular top mount or somehow do a side mount? dude once you get behind the motor you'll realize that there is virtually no room to fit anything back there. i built a top mount log manifold and it's still a pretty tight squeeze but i think i can fit a 57 trim turbo back there, i dont think youd be able to fit anything bigger than 47 trim if you went with a bottom mount.
and forget about the fog lights, i got rid of mine and i was lucky enough to keep my charge pipes 2.5in through out.
keep this thing fully custom, there are enough kits out there that are built for the average incompetent person.

I don't feel i'm doing it backwards. I want to select a turbo that not only satisifies my needs, but one that would appeal to other people in the market and that is easily purchasable. otherwise i'd just use one of the several turbos that I have sitting on the shelf.(would be alot cheaper)

I'm used to squeezing turbo's into tight spots...... umm.... lol I've done a t3/t4 in a single cam with 2.5" dp and AC without relocating anything!! as well as a DC integra with ac. not to mention the monsterous t4 in the link above while retaining power steering and 4" downpipe.

57trim??? you talking a t3/t4?? why so big??? were only a 1.5L and a majority of the guys here autox, road race, and canyon carve. a turbo that has a peaky powerband is very hard to drive. one that has a great transient response and a more linear powerband is easier to drive. i'm actually looking along the lines of a GT2252(maps out perfect for the l15a) for a journal bearing turbo, a GT2554r(aka gt25r) or gt2560r(aka gt28r) for BB options, then some others that map out well are a KKK k03, MHI 15g and thats all i've really researched thus far.

I do want this to be semi custom to stand out. like stainless tubular manifold, stainless downpipe, a nice heat shield(depending on turbo orientation) but i'd like to keep the fog lights myself.

[silviaracer]

The GT2252 would be nice. Also check out the RHF3 or RHF4 from IHI. I'm not in the market for a turbo kit but I think these would be the most responsive for the FIT.

[manxman]

underdog,
Aside from CA Fit drivers who would be more likely to buy a competitively priced turbo kit that IS CARB exempt vs. ones that aren't, other states with heavy population locales will some day adopt anti-smog programs that are similar to CA. Catering to the biggest PITA state now will pay off for you now with CA buyers, and later as smog restrictions become more wide spread. Re: journal vs. ball bearings- look into turbine sources who use Thermal Sprayed journal surfaces. The porosity that is inherent in the coating will hold onto lubricant, and will take more abrasive wear and heat than hardened, polished substrate material. T/S coated vs. uncoated should not have much cost difference. When I was in the T/S industry, turbine shafts that were repaired with coatings outlasted new, uncoated journal surfaces 3-to-1.

[gd3kamiwanaB]

hey man cool idea and im not saying this to be mean or and ass h0le. but i really dont think you can build, market and produce a turbo kit that is cost effective enough for you to make any kind of profit. companies like HKS GREdy and T1R spends mega moneys developing these kits. i see you are and avid honda tuner and u obviously know what your doing but the average consumer that is willing to spend 3 to 4 thousand dollars on turboing there car probably wants a multi million dollar name to back there kit. but what do i know good luck and i wish you the best all im saying is be care full.

[underdog]

Originally Posted by gd3kamiwanaB

hey man cool idea and im not saying this to be mean or and ass h0le. but i really dont think you can build, market and produce a turbo kit that is cost effective enough for you to make any kind of profit. companies like HKS GREdy and T1R spends mega moneys developing these kits. i see you are and avid honda tuner and u obviously know what your doing but the average consumer that is willing to spend 3 to 4 thousand dollars on turboing there car probably wants a multi million dollar name to back there kit. but what do i know good luck and i wish you the best all im saying is be care full.

I realize that it is going to take some time and money, especially being a no name to the industry, but everyone has to start somewhere. i'm not really in it to make a fortune. I wanted to start in a young unflooded market to get a name out there by building a quality product that will hopefully perform as well or better as the big wig's. I mean look at full-race. I remember when geoff first started the idea of a honda race shop like 4-5 years ago and now look at him. I'm definitly not quiting my day job to jump into entraprenurship right away. if things don't work out, then it wasn't ment to be, but at least I can have the accomplisment of I gave it a shot. you gotta crawl before you can walk.