Fit I.C.E.Threads discussing in-car electronics including audio, video, security, and navigation systems for the Honda Fit/Jazz
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After auditioning several speaker lines I have decided on the Hertz Energy 165.3 component set. They will be here next week, so I have until Friday to decide on amplifier selection/location. I have an existing 12" JL sub/amp to consider, and will be running the stock navigation HU until I can afford to replace it.
I gutted the stock speakers - the Hertz will set on the remaining speaker ring and depth should not be an issue. The tweeters are small at 3/4" and will go in the stock location on the dash (I may have to modify the tweeter housing a bit). I am having everything professionally installed, but I do need to iron out a few custom details by next week:
Amplifier selection/location - I cannot afford a new amp for the Hertz right now, and I'm running the stock navigation HU:
a) Just run them from the stock navi.
b) Have installers run all wiring needed for an amp to under the driver's seat, and save up until I can afford a really nice amp for these.
c) Have installers wire up my existing (2ch) 10 year old Kenwood 100w RMS amp to them, and lose my 12" JL sub for a while....
Initially I was leaning towards a) so that I can keep my sub! But the problem is that I have to turn the Bass all the way down on my Navi, and all the way down on my amp or else it's just too boomy and distorts easily. Either the stock HU puts out a too much bass, or my amp is just old and crappy - but those Energy are not going to have anywhere near a full range sound with 0 bass going to them right?
Now I'm leaning towards c) since I have seen how these Hertz can pound, plus I would have all the wiring ran to upgrade in the future, and I can always drop a cheap amp in back for the 12" JL if I really miss it. I would hate to drop in the new Hertz and not be able to tell a difference from stock due to my jankey setup.
I will apply Dynomat Extreme on both layers of the door panels this week as well which should help. Let me know what you all think about the options above. Looking forward to the install next week - I know those Hertz are great speakers, just need to give them the best environment I can!
I actually bought two of them so I can replace my aged Kenwood powering the 12" JL sub as well.
I have not decided whether I will attempt to install everything myself, or pay to have it installed. I am going to drop in the Hertz tonight, and will play around with placement options for the rest of the hardware.
I am going to install everything myself with a couple friends very soon, possibly tomorrow. I have a few questions to mull over:
- Should I consolidate the Zapco amps from (two) 2-channel amps to (one) 4-channel amp? I got a really good deal on the 2-channel models, which is why I ended up buying two, I hope their are other benefits in running separate amps for components and sub...
- I'm assuming 4 gauge power wire will work. Is it absolutely vital that I run the power wire down one side of the car, and signal wires down the other?
- I will most likely keep the 1 farad capacitor in the setup, but regardless.....am I going to put too much stress on the Fit's electrical system with this setup? I will have (two) 100w RMS(x2) amps, each have two 35amp fuses.
- Should I consider relocating my tweeter location to the door panels (within 12" of the mid range speakers)?
I am going to install everything myself with a couple friends very soon, possibly tomorrow. I have a few questions to mull over:
- Should I consolidate the Zapco amps from (two) 2-channel amps to (one) 4-channel amp? I got a really good deal on the 2-channel models, which is why I ended up buying two, I hope their are other benefits in running separate amps for components and sub...
- I'm assuming 4 gauge power wire will work. Is it absolutely vital that I run the power wire down one side of the car, and signal wires down the other?
- I will most likely keep the 1 farad capacitor in the setup, but regardless.....am I going to put too much stress on the Fit's electrical system with this setup? I will have (two) 100w RMS(x2) amps, each have two 35amp fuses.
- Should I consider relocating my tweeter location to the door panels (within 12" of the mid range speakers)?
Personally, I always say to have separate amps for subs and comps/coaxs. It allow for more control. Usually the crossovers/HPF and LPF on amps are much better than that found in aftermarket HUs. And especially if you'll be keeping the stock HU, which has absolutely minimal control. If the 2 channel amps have both HPF and LPF, then you should be okay with the stock HU while using the amps to tune. But keep in mind, the stock HUs are very noisy (though, I have not heard the stock Navi unit in the GE8).
4 gauge wire will be fine. And yes, if you are running your mid range and high range off an amp, it is almost imperative that you run power and signal on different sides. The risk of interference is very high when dealing with signal for mid/high range. You can, however, feel free to run you remote turn on wire with the signal wires, as that is coming from the HU and typically very low amperage. If you're placing your amps under the drive and passenger seats, then try running the signal wires down underneath the center console. That's what I'll be doing, theres plenty of room there.
I personally don't give capacitors any credit. Depending on the style of music you listen to, they typically are completely drained of power within 5 minutes of listening at higher volume. And they won't recharge until you are not listening, so (to me) they do very little good besides looking cool. A better option is to upgrade you battery and the battery-to-ground wire and engine-to-chassis wire. That'll give better performance. Even without any upgrades, that system is not extremely taxing on the Fit, so you may not see any dimming.
It is ideal to have your tweeters closer to your mid-range drivers and at a higher placement. But that might mean cutting your doors, and only you can say if that's worth it. To me, it's not.
I'm not familiar with Hertz or Zapco. Are you only running 2 speakers total?
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2008 GD3 MT Fit (Base) Vivid Pearl Blue
---Finally started work on the Fit!!!---
I auditioned the next-higher version, the Hertz HSK165 (I think they call this the "Hi-Energy"), myself sometime last year. Even without a sub, they sounded pretty good and matched well against more expensive stuff from Focal and Alpine.
Personally, I always say to have separate amps for subs and comps/coaxs. It allow for more control. Usually the crossovers/HPF and LPF on amps are much better than that found in aftermarket HUs. And especially if you'll be keeping the stock HU, which has absolutely minimal control. If the 2 channel amps have both HPF and LPF, then you should be okay with the stock HU while using the amps to tune. But keep in mind, the stock HUs are very noisy (though, I have not heard the stock Navi unit in the GE8).
Glad to hear some benefits in running (two) 2-channel amps. For me, using these two Zapco amps will produce the best sound for the money - at the expense of increased weight, more room taken up, and additional hardware installation complexity. That's the price I must pay to get the best sound, as 4-channel Zapco amps are closer to $1k.
The other 4-channel amps I was looking at had quite a bit of individual control for each channel, but when comparing specs, my Zapco covered a significantly larger frequency range, had lower TDH etc. etc. Again, the main benefit for me in consolidating down to one amp is reduced weight and taking up less room in the back...but I guess if your going to have nice speakers and nice sound, you need a lot of room for amps, distribution blocks etc., and some sacrifices must be made.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalFit630
4 gauge wire will be fine. And yes, if you are running your mid range and high range off an amp, it is almost imperative that you run power and signal on different sides. The risk of interference is very high when dealing with signal for mid/high range. You can, however, feel free to run you remote turn on wire with the signal wires, as that is coming from the HU and typically very low amperage. If you're placing your amps under the drive and passenger seats, then try running the signal wires down underneath the center console. That's what I'll be doing, theres plenty of room there.
Yeah if we are tearing the car apart to this extent we may as well do it right and run the power and signal cables separately. In the past I have only really ran power/signal cables back to a sub woofer and have not had an issue, but now running mids/high signals through the car I can definitely understand the importance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalFit630
I personally don't give capacitors any credit. Depending on the style of music you listen to, they typically are completely drained of power within 5 minutes of listening at higher volume. And they won't recharge until you are not listening, so (to me) they do very little good besides looking cool. A better option is to upgrade you battery and the battery-to-ground wire and engine-to-chassis wire. That'll give better performance. Even without any upgrades, that system is not extremely taxing on the Fit, so you may not see any dimming.
The capacitor argument rages on. It seems the more experienced car audio professionals do not recommend capacitors. I agree that it is not a good solution, it's just that I already have one and figured that it can't hurt. (even though I have heard that it actually puts more strain on the electrical system than without)..and just yesterday I had another installer recommend keeping it my system. Still on the fence with this, but I will definitely consider the big 3 upgrade either way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalFit630
It is ideal to have your tweeters closer to your mid-range drivers and at a higher placement. But that might mean cutting your doors, and only you can say if that's worth it. To me, it's not.
I'm not familiar with Hertz or Zapco. Are you only running 2 speakers total?
I really don't mind cutting into the doors. I plan to keep the car a while, and the tweeters are very small. I suppose this may end up being a last minute decision on my part, depending on which location sounds the best or how difficult an aftermarket placement option seems to be.
Hertz is designed and engineered by Elettromedia (Italy) and manufactured off shore. I believe Hertz provides speakers used in some high-end European cars. In my experience they are fairly difficult to find locally, and are available from few online dealers in the US. I had heard them once before and called around STL and found one custom car audio shop that carried them. Many of the speakers in the place are $2500 a PIECE. Mine are low end Hertz, but the sound is excellent, I really like them.
Again with Zapco, there is only one dealer in Missouri. Their amps are pretty expensive, and I have the lower end i-Force line - but the sound quality does not compare to any other amp I have heard, and their 125RMS is much more accurate than amps of other manufacturers.
Yes I am gutting the rear speakers, will just have the components up front, and sub in the back.
Can't wait to get everything installed. I was shooting for today, but I have to be sure I have my car audio friends lined up to help. I'll keep the thread updated with the latest.
I auditioned the next-higher version, the Hertz HSK165 (I think they call this the "Hi-Energy"), myself sometime last year. Even without a sub, they sounded pretty good and matched well against more expensive stuff from Focal and Alpine.
Thanks, yes the Hertz HSK165 are excellent as well. They are a step higher than mine but locally they are priced over $800USD. I could not believe the first time I heard them in the audition room, they started the audition without a separate sub woofer running, and immediately I started poking around asking, which one of the subs were on? None! They were pounding pretty good while keeping a very clean sound.
Alright so I met with some friends today.... we decided on building a hinged raised floor over the spare tire/wheel well area. Within the false floor we will mount the 12" sub, two amps, crossovers, capacitor, distribution block, amp fans etc. etc.
I purchased an extreme dynomat door kit for my front driver and passenger doors, and the trunk kit to cover the wheel well and other areas. All other hardware and equipment is purchased and ready for installation including wiring, carpet, MDF board, and other materials.
I'm still undecided on whether I want to go through with dropping the sub into the raised floor (therefore limiting airspace) or leave the sub in it's own full size box. It's a tough call.
If you're looking to drop all of that stuff into a false floor, then add a sub under there, that's a lot of space. I'd say just put the amps and everything else under there and make a nice box for the sub.
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2008 GD3 MT Fit (Base) Vivid Pearl Blue
---Finally started work on the Fit!!!---
All done! The install went smooth, my new setup is very loud and very clean!
My "before" setup consisted of a 12"JLW6V2 with older Kenwood amp mounted to the back of the box,1 farad cap, and an 8ga power run:
My new setup has the same sub (now mounted in a false floor), 4ga power run, two Zapco amps, 1 farad cap, and the Hertz component set (no rears):
The amps run too hot right now to place within the false floor, so they are mounted up top for now. I will look into something that runs cooler or has fans built in. There's plenty of space for an amp under each side of the sub.
I laid extreme dynomat throughout the wheel well and surrounding areas, both layers of the front door, and hatch. We then dropped in a nice, deep box for the sub as shown below (the top of the false floor was then sealed right over the top of this (3/4" MDF as well):
Here are the components installed in the doors:
Ground cable upgrades...
And a couple more money shots ....
Next up: clean all the dust, install wire loom, and save up for my next amp. Ideally I would like a 4channel that either runs cool, or has a fan built in....for now I am loving the amazing clarity and clean power of the Zapco amps.
Final notes:
First off, I'm amazed at how much better my sub sounds! The new box is very well constructed, and has plenty of airspace. A combination of this and the new Zapco power really make my sub shine!
I must have laid over 30' of extreme dynomat in this car, and it was worth every penny.
Sure the stock navi could be cleaner (along with my source material), but overall the sound is impressively clear now that I have all this power behind great equipment. I used to crank it as loud as it would go (40), but it now rests comfortably at 28-32. I can roll the windows down and not miss a beat! (and if I do, I just crank this a bit:
So far I am lovin' it!! Let me know if you have any questions on the install. I have over one hundred photos from installation so if you need anything in particular don't hesitate to ask (I will start a Flickr set soon..). Cheers!
Very nice work! I like the box! How many people did you have helping you? And how long did it take? I'm glad to hear that it still sounds good with the stock nav unit. I wonder if theres a difference between the processing of the nav and the non-nav unit?
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2008 GD3 MT Fit (Base) Vivid Pearl Blue
---Finally started work on the Fit!!!---
Thanks for the compliment! A friend and I completed this project in about 7 hours. Yeah I am very happy with the sound. I now have all the "headroom" I have been looking for in my system.
New Hertz Energy 165.3 component set on the way!
The install went smooth, my new setup is very loud and very clean! 
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