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Hey guys and gals, I hope you all are well! And to all of those following, I hope you all have a safe and happy holiday!
No major updates at this time. All parts for the rear disc conversion are acquired so I just need to schedule time to install it! Other than that, the GD3 is enjoying a well deserved retirement in its garage after 8 years of daily use.
Now... This post isn't a complete post count filler. I come bearing one gift that I'm rather surprised that hasn't been posted here.
Dyno video from my baseline pulls!
Mods were at the time, AFE stage 2 intake, T1R Response header, Megan resonated test pipe, Spoon catback, and Flash Pro with mild fuel adjustments for 93 octane.
That sound at around 5.5 to 6k is the torque convertor closing while wide open throttle.
So in 3rd gear for example, it stays open till about 88 MPH, at which point closes/locks then I'll run out of gear at 99 MPH. This is HILARIOUS to see on the dyno sheet since it literally crates a loop on the chart. Haha
Not too much new has been going for the GD3 since the prior update. Its just in the garage and enjoying is retirement to autocross and general maintenance. Two Saturdays ago, I decided to adjust the valves and replace the valve cover gasket while it was off.
The recent Sunday was another autocross day which I felt we had a VERY good turnout especially considering the course format and how low on power the Fit is. Ended up placing 46th out of 82 raw time in our club's autocross event. I'll update this post with a link to the times and possibly pictures as well if I can find any... the go pro was inop as usual. >.>
This upcoming weekend should be promising. I'm planning on doing the rear disc conversion along with the usual brake fluid replacement with Motul RBF600. Hopefully things should go together smoothly. ^.^
Hey guys! I hope everyone is doing well and having a great Valetine's day.
Finally getting a chance to update this thread after a little odd string of luck and getting another much needed a mental break!
The EP3 Si spec rear disc conversion is pretty much on and functioning with the Scarebird brackets! The only thing that is not installed at this time is the parking brake cable and mounting bracket since the EP3's 9CLP14S Caliper appears to require a 7CLP13S bracket (will confirm soon, I do have part in stock). Once installed/figured out, everything should function normally!
So... the rear discs have been on since Jan. 26th and so far I'm quite pleased with how they perform for daily use. Peddle feel is a smidgen softer than with the drums and 913 shoes (even after 3 or 4 system bleeds so far) along with bite being a little weaker than them as well since I'm using EP3 correct OEM pads.
During spirited drives, the difference in bite between my AX6 front pads and OEM rears was very noticeable. Brakes balance seemed to be a bit more based towards the front of the car (again, due to more aggressive/higher initial torque friction material of the AX6) and I didn't notice much activity from the rear. Typically the under braking the with the 913 shoes the car WANT to rotate SOME... with this configuration, I have yet to experience any hint of rotation under braking at all. I'm thinking that since I lack a rotor shield with the OEM pads that I'm currently having the rear brake cool too much or too quickly with this pad choice. I'm going to experiment with Hawk HP+ pads (which has similar characteristics to Carbotech's AX6) in the rear this week and see how that goes... They should be here by Wednesday.
Now... the conversion itself was NOT bad at all if you are comfortable with turning a wrench... And have decent luck (will get into that later). The most difficult part of this job in my honest opinion is removing the shoes; everything else is fairly straight forward since its effectively unbolt everything, add Scarebird bracket, and reassemble prior to running brake lines and cables.
I will update with pictures during the install and produce a semi-complete D.I.Y. due to lack of parking brake at this time. Parking brake cables should be installed and adjusted later in the week during pad change.
Here's a couple of teaser pics for the time being.
^^ These are the Scarebird conversion brackets that I'm referring to. With the assistance of apexanimal, he and Scarebird developed a bracket that is compatible with our GD3s.
They effectively substitute the drum's backing plate during the conversion and after getting the putting the hub assembly and rotor on you can effectively build off of it with your choice of either Integra or Civic Si calipers and pads, the correlating parking brake cable, and of course custom cut brake lines (be it from Fast Brakes or Techna-Fit like I did).
Aside from the Scarebird bracket, Techna-Fit brake lines, parking brake cable bracket, and the upcoming Hawk HP+ pads... EVERYTHING is EP3 Si. Rotor, caliper, pads and parking brake cables are all OE correct to the 2002/2003 EP3 (2004/2005 went 5 lug, everything else is same).
Hey guys, its be a while... Forgive the extended absence as I'm dealing with the usual hustle and bustle in this thing called life.
EP3 rear disc conversion...
Now to pick up from my last post in February, I was supposed to be confirming or denying whether the EP3 SI rear disc brakes properly works for the GD3.
Now the installation of the EP3 SI brake caliper and rotor with the Scarebird disc conversion bracket was pretty straight forward. It was a matter of simply removing the drums, removing the hub, and installing the bracket then reassemble. I did have minor clearance/spacing issues with the bracket and caliper so lock washers were added to help offset that. Routing the brake lines was a simple matter as well; with my configuration I contacted Techna-Fit again and had them custom cut some lines for me. The parking brake cables are another story...
I'm trying a couple of configurations here. At first, I started out with the traditional layout of the factory EP3 left and right cable routing. It does not work for our application due to the passenger's parking cable is too long to use on GD3 fits. My second attempt, I swapped the passenger's cable (on the GD3) with an EP3 driver's side cable (EP3 driver's cables on both sides). What seems to be happening is that there is still not enough tension from the cable to "preload" the passenger caliper and its pads in comparison to the driver's side; therefore, I am experiencing an unequal brake bias which seems to favor the driver's side (which actually bites/locks up with the parking brake engaged).
I admittedly I may not have fully cleared the calipers of air after the initial system bleed so this may be potentially be a factor to take in as well. Other factors to consider is that these Centric calipers I am using are re-manufactured (Could I possibly have a sticking caliper?) and my lock washers as spacers are either unevenly tightened or improperly spaced which influences the abnormal bias. I will investigate this as time allows.
Even with running this uneven brake bias since late January-early February, I haven't seen any severe abilities in terms of brake pad wear. Since I used cheap O'Reilly brake rotors with an aggressive Hawk HP plus pads I have yet to see any actual pad wear at this time, just the rotor being worn away (much like my AX6 Carbotechs against the EBS USR850 rotors did). Whenever I upgrade to some Centric/Power Stop slotted rotors I'm expecting to see a bit more wear from use pads due to 1) The rotors are constructed of better materials I.E. Higher in carbon density, cryogenic treatment, etc. and 2) The slots that are cut into the rotors will effectively be a grater and shave away at the pad like a block of cheese. I hope that there will not be too much of issue running this rotor since the Hawk pads tend to stay a bit too cool already. If the problem persists or worsens, I'll ditch the Hawks for another pair of AX6s.
Other updates or modifications...
Shortly after the rear disc conversion, I dropped the Fit off to my good buddies at MSR Houston for a corner balance and alignment. At the time the GD weighed in at 2548lbs with half a tank of fuel, no spare tire and tire tools, with FULL interior in the car... which is little on the chubby side but not too bad. I'm looking to shedding some of that weight as time progresses and budget allows.
Camber wise, I'm looking at -3 degrees up front with a little toe out and -2.5 degrees in the rear with maybe 1 mm of toe in (for streetablity reasons) thanks to HOW MUCH EASIER it is to shim the rear axle now with the rear disc. This combined with 205/50R15 Bridgestone RE-71Rs made the car feel much more predictable/balanced on course and planted mid-corner. I WILL have to look into getting racing bucket seats at this rate, I keep sliding out thanks to the Clazzios now.
As of May, I decided to try another will set for autocross. I still am running my 15x9 Advanti Storm S1 but I am no longer running the reverse stagger with a 15x7 and 205s, I decided to run 15 by 9s both in the front AND rear of my Fit as well as run 245/40R15 Maxxis VR1s. As far as fitment issues, the tires effectively clear with minimal issues thanks to my ride height, camber, and 3 millimeter spacers. I can effectively daily drive this wheel set without worrying about rubbing whatsoever just did a minor bump up from a 500 lb rear spring to 650 lbs. The spring change was a 3 for 1 change; reduce mid-corner understeer, induce more throttle lift oversteer, and not have that slight rub during high speed sharp bumps
That's all for now... I should be uploading more recent images and possibly some autocross videos tonight or tomorrow. All of these Takata airbag recalls are taking a toll on me at work.
Hey guys, its been a while... and man have we've been up to some shenanigans...
October 2016
During our autocross event in October, I decided to try out the 245/40s Maxxis VR1 on the 15x9 Sport S1s just to get an idea of how the car would react. As predicted braking distance was increased a little and the steering was a little heavier thanks to the lager wheel/tire combo (33 lbs each before balancing). What I didn't expect was how little heat I could get into the tires as well as how I couldn't generate enough momentum throughout the course TO add heat to the tires and fully utilize the Maxxis.
I may need to experiment with tire pressures and dampening adjustments... maybe even replace the Tokicos since they've gotten almost 45k HARD miles on them.
November 2016
November was a bit of a cluster... The car ran amazing and during autocross I some how ended pulling a first place in class win while giving some of the higher HP and more recent M cars a damn good run. Especially considering that this was actually a smooth flowing momentum course with PLENTY of spots for experienced drivers to gap the Fit with power.
This was the hardest I've the Fit at the time but I do want to progress and get faster... something had to give. So after the event, I pulled the trigger and started digging into the Fit.
I will pick up from here later on in the day, I currently have links up to add in pictures... I've just running a smidgen late for work now. But for now, here's a tease for those who aren't following my Instagram or have me on Facebook.
Awesome!! Any dyno numbers? I just got my GD3 last November and I haven't been able to find a KWSC kit. Thinking about going turbo or just run it N/A for Autocross (very first time on the track).
Awesome!! Any dyno numbers? I just got my GD3 last November and I haven't been able to find a KWSC kit. Thinking about going turbo or just run it N/A for Autocross (very first time on the track).
Awesome build
No, dyno numbers yet with the KWSC. I was at 104 WHP N/A... I'm suspecting around the 140WHP mark maybe?
Its pretty hard to find a KWSC kit... People tend to acquire them and hold onto them. So if you do find one, you'll likely be looking to upgrade it to the high boost kit... BUT still jump on it ASAP.
As far what to do when going to your first track day... Just run what you have and build/adjust accordingly as you progress. Otherwise, you'll likely either be throwing money in the wind or overbuilding the car for your skill level.
Just make sure the car is SAFE to be driven both on the street as well as on the course. Replace fluids, make sure there are no leaks, battery is tied down, tires have decent tread, etc. Simple basic safety stuff, run the event and have fun!
I started tearing the Fit down to install the Kraftwerks high boost kit on Nov. 26th and finished on the 28th... Which coincidentally was also the 9th year of owning the Fit. After install, I noticed that there was a TON of smoke coming out the exhaust when WOT (Wide Open Throttle). After initial fluid checks, it was found that the traction oil for the Rotrex was draining back into the S/C and pooling up on the lip of the compressor housing... During start up, the oil would of course slowly get sucked in and burned off... in boost, the oil would get chucked into the engine and create nice smoke screen for tailgaters (think Spy Hunter/Rolling Coal thick smoke).
After consulting with Kraftwerks and Rotrex, it seems that this may be a design defect that with the oil system on these kits due to how high the oil tank is located in these. My fix? Lower the S/C's oil tank and get it either even or lower than the Rotrex so that the oil does not drain back... Simple-ish.
Admittedly I'm not familiar with the amount of space manual KWSC HB owners have. However, in the case of the automatic transmission vehicles there is a location on the driver side frame rail that is pretapped and usable. It may be used as a mounting point for the manual transmission mounts... but is completely unused for the automatics. I bored out the mounting hardware slightly for the tank, secured it to the frame rail, and reroute/cut the oil lines accordingly. After this, no more oil pooling up in the Rotrex or being shot out of the exhaust.
Also, for access reasons I had to bend my A/T dipstick 90 degrees to I could do fluid level checks.
January 2017
After a period of tinkering a round via Flash Pro and trying to relearn the car, I decided to give the car a shake down at the Houston Police Academy with Houston BMW CCA. This event was great test day considering that temps were in the low 70s and also it was predicted to rain that day... And rain it did half way through my run group and throughout the remainder of the event.
As you can see in the map, the course starts off kind of rocky. Slow constant radius at the start and a Chicago box then into a tight left hand 90 but after that (in the lower left corner of the map) things were really simple... and really quick... then really slippery. Linked below is my 3rd run of 7 that day which also is my fastest run of the event. The course was mostly dry during this pass with a few puddles scattered throughout.
The end results yielded a first in class finish as well as an 8th place finish overall (out of 48 participants). A good turn out for an initial shake down.
Photo credit to David Leung! He's almost always out and about shooting pictures at our events. Your time and efforts are always appreciated!
Last edited by Hootie; 01-23-2017 at 11:27 PM.
Reason: Adding links and pictures.
No, dyno numbers yet with the KWSC. I was at 104 WHP N/A... I'm suspecting around the 140WHP mark maybe?
Its pretty hard to find a KWSC kit... People tend to acquire them and hold onto them. So if you do find one, you'll likely be looking to upgrade it to the high boost kit... BUT still jump on it ASAP.
As far what to do when going to your first track day... Just run what you have and build/adjust accordingly as you progress. Otherwise, you'll likely either be throwing money in the wind or overbuilding the car for your skill level.
Just make sure the car is SAFE to be driven both on the street as well as on the course. Replace fluids, make sure there are no leaks, battery is tied down, tires have decent tread, etc. Simple basic safety stuff, run the event and have fun!
Thanks for the answer. First Autocross date here in my country would be February 12th but I would only be taking pics and recording with a friend plus my brakes need an upgrade. Bad thing is that aftermarket parts here in Guatemala are limited and importing them is sometimes expensive and the few shops around here that carry genuine aftermarkets parts want to charge you huge almost the double of the original price.
I'm planning to run this year and the next one N/A and going turbo afterwards
I started tearing the Fit down to install the Kraftwerks high boost kit on Nov. 26th and finished on the 28th... Which coincidentally was also the 9th year of owning the Fit. After install, I noticed that there was a TON of smoke coming out the exhaust when WOT (Wide Open Throttle). After initial fluid checks, it was found that the traction oil for the Rotrex was draining back into the S/C and pooling up on the lip of the compressor housing... During start up, the oil would of course slowly get sucked in and burned off... in boost, the oil would get chucked into the engine and create nice smoke screen for tailgaters (think Spy Hunter/Rolling Coal thick smoke).
After consulting with Kraftwerks and Rotrex, it seems that this may be a design defect that with the oil system on these kits due to how high the oil tank is located in these. My fix? Lower the S/C's oil tank and get it either even or lower than the Rotrex so that the oil does not drain back... Simple-ish.
Admittedly I'm not familiar with the amount of space manual KWSC HB owners have. However, in the case of the automatic transmission vehicles there is a location on the driver side frame rail that is pretapped and usable. It may be used as a mounting point for the manual transmission mounts... but is completely unused for the automatics. I bored out the mounting hardware slightly for the tank, secured it to the frame rail, and reroute/cut the oil lines accordingly. After this, no more oil pooling up in the Rotrex or being shot out of the exhaust.
Also, for access reasons I had to bend my A/T dipstick 90 degrees to I could do fluid level checks.
January 2017
After a period of tinkering a round via Flash Pro and trying to relearn the car, I decided to give the car a shake down at the Houston Police Academy with Houston BMW CCA. This event was great test day considering that temps were in the low 70s and also it was predicted to rain that day... And rain it did half way through my run group and throughout the remainder of the event.
As you can see in the map, the course starts off kind of rocky. Slow constant radius at the start and a Chicago box then into a tight left hand 90 but after that (in the lower left corner of the map) things were really simple... and really quick... then really slippery. Linked below is my 3rd run of 7 that day which also is my fastest run of the event. The course was mostly dry during this pass with a few puddles scattered throughout.
The end results yielded a first in class finish as well as an 8th place finish overall (out of 48 participants). A good turn out for an initial shake down.
Photo credit to David Leung! He's almost always out and about shooting pictures at our events. Your time and efforts are always appreciated!
Thanks! I can only give wasserball credit for the majority of the autocross photos. He's out there volunteering his time and shooting taking some stellar pictures of the events.
As for updates... Sure, I suppose I can share a couple of things and maybe a teaser or two.
For while, I've been tinkering with my fuel and ignition tables since I'm working completely scratch with this tune for the KWSC. Thankfully the autotune function of Flash Pro helped get things in a decent ball park so the car is at least street-able. I've had the GD dyno'ed twice at two different locations that have DynoJet chassis dynos.
The first location was having dyno issues during my runs (drums were sticking on the rollers) so I couldn't get an accurate measurement BUT at least gave me the ability to safely load up the car and get the fuel maps adjusted accordingly. During that session, we consistently seen 133 WHP... WITH STICKING ROLLERS... So the car is definitely making more this but again, we couldn't get an accurate reading due to existing circumstances.
Cue lots of procrastination over several months, some last minute prepping for June's autocross, and we're now strapped to a different DynoJet on a humid 80 degree night. Do pull #1... 146 WHP. Do pull #2... 143 WHP. Pull #3... 133 WHP... WTF is up with the power loss? We forgot to put the big arse box fan in front of the car and was seeing 150 degree Fahrenheit IATs. Fan on, IATs back down to 110 and its time for some pulls.
A few runs in and we're consistently in the mid 140s with a couple of knock counts past 5.8k. Pulled a little timing there, added some timing and fuel from 3-4k then another pull... 149 WHP without knock and a NOTICEABLE 5 to 7 WHP jump in both power and torque from 3 to 4k. So a little more fiddling with timing and fuel ended up yielding 152 WHP... AND there's still more left on the table with fuel and ignition tuning.
In regards to autocross, the car seems to be holding its own against GTIs, FoSTs, and a few other recent model boosted hatches though I'm still learning as I go. Here's a photo dump of the last event along with a video taking by FF.net member Mugen_Mojo/Saved who decided to stop by and ride along.
No major setup changes have been done as of yet but I am considering either replacing these Tokico HTSs with new ones or possibly going with BC Racing coilovers... Possibly stepping up to 2016 CR-Z calipers (11 inches like the ITR) or maybe the HPD calipers with 300mm rotors (budget permitting ).
But that'll have to come later... the GD is currently down due to engine mounts getting a lot weaker than I expected and actually allowed the alternator pulley to cut into the low side A/C hose. SO that'll have to come first... BUT since I'm working in that general area... hopefully this will get IATs to DROP.
12-20-2015, 01:43 PM
