motul rbf600 brake fluid, or your suggestions on a track worth brake fluid

[kennef]

track star fit owners, any recommendations on brake fluid? i'll be very happy if the OEM fluid works fine, meaning will not boil under track conditions. i just ask since the manual states "Always use Honda Heavy Duty Brake Fluid DOT 3" and continues to say that DOT 4 can be used on a temporary basis.

[manxman]

Originally Posted by kennef

track star fit owners, any recommendations on brake fluid? i'll be very happy if the OEM fluid works fine, meaning will not boil under track conditions. i just ask since the manual states "Always use Honda Heavy Duty Brake Fluid DOT 3" and continues to say that DOT 4 can be used on a temporary basis.

DOt 4 is silicone oil, used in race cars and all aircraft brakes because of high heat tolerance. Also, it does not absorb water from the air as DOT 3 fluid does. The suspended water causes rusting of brake components, and is the reason why complete brake fluid change is recommended every two years by automotive techs. I don't know why the warning is given about "on a temporary basis" but the following may have something to do with it---

On some U.S.-made vehicles, DOT 4 fluid can cause problems with ABS systems, and is not recommended at all.

Here is an alternative to both DOT 3 & 4:
Brake Fluid » Brake Fluid » ATE » ATE Super Blue

[kennef]

Originally Posted by manxman

DOt 4 is silicone oil, used in race cars and all aircraft brakes because of high heat tolerance. Also, it does not absorb water from the air as DOT 3 fluid does. The suspended water causes rusting of brake components, and is the reason why complete brake fluid change is recommended every two years by automotive techs. I don't know why the warning is given about "on a temporary basis" but the following may have something to do with it---

On some U.S.-made vehicles, DOT 4 fluid can cause problems with ABS systems, and is not recommended at all.

Here is an alternative to both DOT 3 & 4:
Brake Fluid » Brake Fluid » ATE » ATE Super Blue

cool. would you run super blue in the fit? in my other car, rbf600 is the preferred fluid so i have no experience w/ super blue. BTW, any brake pad/shoe recommendations?

[manxman]

Originally Posted by kennef

cool. would you run super blue in the fit? in my other car, rbf600 is the preferred fluid so i have no experience w/ super blue. BTW, any brake pad/shoe recommendations?

I am #2 on the list of people who are committed to buy the Skunk2 Rear Disc Brake kit when they release it for the group buy. When the kit arrives, I will use Super Blue fluid to replace the stock DOT 3. I have not tried any other brand of replacement brake pads or shoes (won't need shoes ever with the rear discs), but there are several threads on alternative pads that other members have tried and reviewed. Good luck with the track mods.

[Sugarphreak]

Actually I have heard lots of people who track their cars use the FORD specific brake fluid...

The story goes that over the years FORD has had really really crappy brakes that tend to overheat easily... so rather than designing better brakes they simply changed the brake fluid to one which has a higher temperature tolerance.

I was pretty skeptical of the story myself.... until I went into our local automotive parts shop and discovered FORD specific brake fluid. Seriously, there was all these different brands and then there was the same brands with FORD stamped all over them.

Anyway, I am sure people can punch all kinds of holes in my story, especially if there are any Ford fans out there The punch line is that I know two people who actually use Ford brake fluid for real racing applications.... and neither of them race Fords.

[Mr B]

Umm, Motul RBF 600 is NOT silicone oil...
DOT 3 are mixtures of glycols and glycol ethers. DOT 4 contains borate esters in addition to what is contained in DOT 3. DOT 5 is silicone chemistry. And since Motul RBF 600 is DOT 4...
I use RBF 600 in my 350Z and I've got nothing but praise for it. In fact, most car enthusiasts and racers use RBF 600 as for the price, it's extremely awesome.
Or if you want a little more exclusivity, you can run Endless RF-650 brake fluid. I used to run this until I was given 2 boxes of Motul fluids to use on my car. Anyway, it was great and if anyone follows WRC, Mark Higgins specifically requests the Endless fluid to be run on his rally car. Here's a pic of the car being prepped.



Also, Peter Solberg asks Subaru to put Endless pads in his car, if you were looking at pads too.



Two funny pictures is of my friends Taka Aono and Hiro Sumida. They're both sponsored by Project Mu yet they insist on using Endless components.

[HEMI-Fit]

Mr B nailed it. I'll add that there is a DOT 5.1 spec that is NOT silicone chemistry, but has similar wet/dry boiling points to the silicone stuff. Note that the DOT specs require fluids to meet specific wet AND dry boiling points, and if a fluid doesn't meet a certain spec for both, it gets rated as the lower of the two. For example, if a dry fliud boils at DOT 5 but only DOT 3 when wet, it's a DOT 3 fluid. There are lots of very high dry boiling point fluids that absorb moisture like mad, so their wet boiling points are low. They get rated as DOT 3 or DOT 4, even though they may exceed DOT 5 specs for dry. I think the Ford fluid is this way.

I don't think I'd run silicone fluid in a car with ABS. My limited understanding is that it doesn't play well with the ABS system, and that's not a chance I'm personally going to take, although I have silicone fluid in all my old cars w/o ABS.

Change your fluid often (like after every track day if you're serious), or once a year minimum on the street, and you can easily get away with a cheaper DOT3 or DOT4 and never have a fluid boiling problem.

[milano sol]

im running the Motul RBF600 on my civic (2000 DX w/ rear drums, Hawk HPS pads and Brembo full face rotors up front, Non-ABS) the car stops WAAAAAAAAAAY better....no issues with teh fluid so far.

i think changing every year to year and half should be good.

hope this helps