Discuss Wheels & Tires for the Fit and Jazz
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View Poll Results: Which Extreme Performance tires should I go with?
Ok guys I need to buy some tires. I have certain priorities and wants when it comes to tires. I want the best possible dry traction I can get. Wet traction is the next priority. Road noise, comfort and tread-life are really low on the want list. Those are not what I am going to base my decision on.
The wheels I have are bronze Konig Next 15"x7" with a +38mm offset. I have completely stock suspension and don't plan on lowering it at all.
Right now I have Hankook Ventus HRIIs that I have put 15,000 miles on. These were decent tires. They had a great deal more dry traction than the stock tires, but wet traction leaves a little to be desired. I have to REALLY be nice with the throttle in the rain, or they just sit and spin at a light. Forever. In a FWD automatic anemic-ass 1.5L Fit!
I have narrowed it down to the following choices, and they are in the order of my top to bottom choice:
I have a local bro-in-law, slap-yo-mamma steal of a deal I can get the Neo Gens for. I talking less than $60/tire.
I really am leaning toward the RT-615s because they are almost an R-Compound tire, but is has some wet traction to boot and the treadlife is not quite R-Compound short. Although, It does have the shallowest tread groove depth of any of the other tires I mentioned.
Now the only reason I even bothered to list the S.Drive (and it is at the bottom) is because it replaces the old Yokohama ES100. I have owned 5 sets of ES100s in my lifetime. I love then to death.
They have an awesome look, they had great dry traction and some of the best wet traction I have ever had. And they were pretty cheap.
I had a set of ES100s back when I had my monster AWD DSM. They were 225/40/18s. I didn't want a big, heavy 18"(I did get a nice set of Enkei RP-02Js in SBC that looked killer and were very lightweight) wheels, but I had no choice because I had upgraded the brakes to 13.25" diameter rotors and BSLn 6 piston calipers, all from Wilwood. A 17" wheel would not clear the calipers.
Well, back to the 225/40/18 Yoks. Even when launching from 7500rpm with a clutch drop those ES100s would stick like glue. I would hit consistent 1.5' second 0-60' times. With an 18" STREET TIRE!!!(AWD is so very nice)
I was racing a super-built stroked and poked, gutted, caged, DOT DRAG SLICK wearing, nitrous burning F-Bod. He was running 6.80s-7.0s all night. On this run I ran a 7.19' in the 1/8th mile. Now he ran a better ET with a 6.90', but since I gated him so hard, I got to the finish line first!!
This was what we were calling a "street race", but of course we ran at the track, since none of us actually street raced. So technically you would call this a 'grudge race'
'Grudge Race' rules are the same as they would be if we had been on the street. One of the most important and most basic rules of grudge racing, is the following:
"If you chase, it's a race."
My thinking on the matter has always been that if I know the other guy can run a better ET that I can, well I am going to have to make the other guy run me down on the big end, ain't I?!?.
If he had chosen to not take the bait, and I had red-lighted without him launching, then I would have lost the race automatically. But since he "chased"(launched), even though I red-lighted, it counted as a race.
In grudge racing it's not the fastest car that always wins the race; it's the guy who gets to the end first that wins.
So yeah the S.Drive might be nice since it replaces th ES100, but I have FWD now not AWD. So I think I want and need a MUCH stickier tire.
I know I am rambling, but when it comes to tires, I think they are one of the most vital parts you can upgrade on a car. They can make or break the entire driving experience. They have the ability to completely and totally change the demeanor of the car, for good or ugly.
So tell me what you guys know and have experienced.
I am so glad you started this thread because I am getting ready to order my rims shortly and I do want
new tires as well. I was leaning towards the Yokohoma's because someone else on here purchased them and said they were great, less road noise and smoother ride. I have stock suspension and no plans to lower. I want to save the stock rims and wheels for winter driving. They only have 10,000 miles on them.
dunlop direzza z1 star spec 195/55R15 is better than all your choices.
Yup...I second that.
I tried running Yokohama S.Drives 205/45/16s on RPF1s for auto-cross...the Dunlops on 15" RPF1s performed way, way better. The Dunlops were the top-ranked Extreme Performance Summer tires @ Tire Rack plus they were the cheapest...you don't see that combo too often.
not sure if this should be a sticky, but i vote the yokos.
the tires i am running right now are bf goodrich t/a kdw nt and they are great. relatively inexpensive, sticky, great dry grip, mediocre wet grip, good tread life but the road noise is pretty harsh.
i have a set of bridgestone re01r on my mugens but ive only driven around my block with them on. kind of expensive but felt great. once my spacers come in (so my mugens clear the caliper) i can report more on those.
Ideally, lighter is better for the obvious reason of decreased rotational mass and therefore less work done in turning them and subsequently better acceleration, gas mileage and "feel", however, some of the lightest tires are pretty crappy. Michelin and Continental make lighter tires that are still very grippy. Bridgestone and Dunlop are heavier and Yokohoma are frequently the heaviest for any given class of tire.
You've also listed several different tire sizes on a 15" wheel so I take it sticking to the OEM tire's original diameter to ensure correct speedometer calibration isn't important. Still there will be a big difference in weight between a 205/50 and a 225/50 not to mention you'll have a pretty "chunky" look with the 225's.
All that taken into consideration, I'd go with Michelin Pilot Exalto PE2's in a 205/50/15. They will give plenty of dry grip on a small car like the Fit plus excellent wet traction as well. The Dunlop Star Specs are a good choice for ultimate traction but I'm not sure you can get them in the size you're looking at. They make a 195/55/15 though.
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08 SSM Fit Sport MT/SSR Type C wheels/ Muteki blue lugs/ Bridgestone Potenza RE760 Sports 205/45/16/ ASpec axel back exhaust/ Luminics Krypton Pure Blue fogs/ Brembo sport slotted rotors/ Porterfield R4-S brake pads & shoes
I tried running Yokohama S.Drives 205/45/16s on RPF1s for auto-cross...the Dunlops on 15" RPF1s performed way, way better. The Dunlops were the top-ranked Extreme Performance Summer tires @ Tire Rack plus they were the cheapest...you don't see that combo too often.
Did you intend to leave Hoosiers off the list? They are the fastest of those tires based on A/X and solo here where legal. And have you consulted TireRack's slalom results for lowest lap times? And if you have to use street-legal, wear index > 100, Michelins Sports Cup has good times too. A little reasearch will yield most answers. Also consult GrassrootsMotorsports, which tests the best A/X tires regularly regardless of manufacturer with detailed performance data.
Although I was leaning towards the RT615s, I have gotten so much positive info about the Dunlop that I think I have made my decision to go with that tire.
The Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec is Dunlop's Extreme Performance Summer tire developed for serious sports car, sports coupe and performance sedan enthusiasts looking for race tire-like traction on the street or for use in autocross, drifting and track events. The Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec is for drivers who don’t want to wait as long for their tires to come in during initial runs, as well as drivers of lighter weight vehicles who are often confronted with the task of working tire temperatures up to the point of generating peak grip.
As an evolution of the Direzza Sport Z1 and continuing to use the same tread design, the Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec tread compound helps provide faster lap times from the start by developing more traction in temperate temperatures along with consistent grip on subsequent laps when the tires are fully warmed up. While this means the Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec tread compound accommodates a wider operating temperature range than the original Direzza Sport Z1 and reaches its maximum grip level faster, Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec summer tires are not intended to be driven through snow, on ice or in near-freezing temperatures.
Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec tires confirm their “Star Spec” identity in the form of a 5-pointed star symbol branded adjacent to the Direzza Sport Z1 name on the sidewall. However, this 5-pointed star should not be confused with the same symbol often branded by tire manufacturers on the sidewalls of Original Equipment tires for BMW vehicles.
The Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec tread compound is molded into a directional design featuring notched, continuous shoulder ribs, large intermediate shoulder blocks and a wide center rib to deliver consistent contact with the road and enhance grip during cornering. Two wide, circumferential center grooves, wavy shoulder grooves and multiple lateral grooves provide water evacuation to enhance wet traction. The tire's internal structure includes two wide steel belts reinforced by JointLess Band (JLB) Technology spirally wound polyamide to provide strength, uniform ride quality and high-speed capability while steel cord reinforced, 2-ply polyester sidewalls help resist lateral deflection to provide responsive handling and cornering stability.
NOTE: The Tire Rack recommends installing Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec tires in sets of four to fully realize the benefits of the Star Spec tread compound. While the Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec can be mixed with its predecessor in axle pairs if necessary, it is recommended that the treads be shaved to the equivalent tread depth of the existing tires.
Thanks for all of the input from everybody. There was some very useful information posted.
I really wasn't even going to consider the Dunlop, because I felt that going from a OEM 195/55/15 up to the Ventus 205/50/15 was a real improvement. I just couldn't see myself now dropping back down to a 195/55/15. That's moving in the wrong direction.
Or so I thought. But in reality, just because I lose the 10mm I had gained with the HRII, because the Dunlop tire is light years better then the Hankook I have now, I won't have lost anything at all.
And even in the looks department, the Dunlop looks great especially with the extended bead protector.
You can really see it in these pics. Notice how nice and fat the 195/55/15 Dunlop looks on the silver car compared to the 205/50/15 Hankook Ventus on my white car.
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08 SSM Fit Sport MT/SSR Type C wheels/ Muteki blue lugs/ Bridgestone Potenza RE760 Sports 205/45/16/ ASpec axel back exhaust/ Luminics Krypton Pure Blue fogs/ Brembo sport slotted rotors/ Porterfield R4-S brake pads & shoes
For the record, my choice wasn't on the list: Yokohama ADVAN Neova AD07s. Pretty much the best tire available for the money, but I'm not sure if it's street legal over there.
I was looking at the Falken RT-615's personally, but everything I have heard has been the khumo tires are much better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahout
Did you intend to leave Hoosiers off the list? They are the fastest of those tires based on A/X and solo here where legal. And have you consulted TireRack's slalom results for lowest lap times? And if you have to use street-legal, wear index > 100, Michelins Sports Cup has good times too. A little reasearch will yield most answers. Also consult GrassrootsMotorsports, which tests the best A/X tires regularly regardless of manufacturer with detailed performance data.
I was going to mention Hoosiers R6/A6 too, but I don't think they are street legal.
EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Type 100
Congratulations on the new rubbers!
For the record, my choice wasn't on the list: Yokohama ADVAN Neova AD07s. Pretty much the best tire available for the money, but I'm not sure if it's street legal over there.
He already got them! I don't spend enough time on this forum! lol Things happen way too fast around here!!
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Last edited by Sugarphreak; 02-16-2009 at 11:07 AM.
I plan on getting the Dunlops as soon as they come into my tire shop.
I had looked a lot at the Kumhos, but when I compare the test result data to those Dunlops, the Star Specs just seem to blow them away.
And I didn't look too much at the Hoosiers because I didn't want a real "R" compound tire. I am not using the car to autocross. But I did look at tires like the RT615 which are as close to a DOT legal "R" compound that you can get.
And the main reason I am getting the Star Specs instead of the RT615s is wet traction. I have now heard that the RT615s are just stupid in the rain, even though they do have a new design that is better than the old design in the wet.
The Star Specs have a dry traction within a couple tenths of a point of the 615s, but the wet traction is something like 9.5 out of 10. That is AWESOME!!
I plan on getting the Dunlops as soon as they come into my tire shop.
I had looked a lot at the Kumhos, but when I compare the test result data to those Dunlops, the Star Specs just seem to blow them away.
And I didn't look too much at the Hoosiers because I didn't want a real "R" compound tire. I am not using the car to autocross. But I did look at tires like the RT615 which are as close to a DOT legal "R" compound that you can get.
And the main reason I am getting the Star Specs instead of the RT615s is wet traction. I have now heard that the RT615s are just stupid in the rain, even though they do have a new design that is better than the old design in the wet.
The Star Specs have a dry traction within a couple tenths of a point of the 615s, but the wet traction is something like 9.5 out of 10. That is AWESOME!!
Just what tests did you see? The Direzza (perhaps not the star?) was a poor fourth to the Sdrive, Fusion, and Kumho in both wet and dry slalom and laps. Ah yes, found the Star but it comes only in 19/55x15 size to use on Fit. For that stock size I'd go with them too. I'd still pick the RT-615's because of the 205/50x15 size offers better performance purely because they have a slightly smaller diameter to counter the added weight 23.2 vs 23.5; weight 20.8 lb vs 19, but experience says be careful of published weights. But still adding 1.8 lb at .15" lower thrust radius and one inch wider tread is more enticing. The A/X troops will give us true comparisons.
I could be wrong but I believe the test you are referring to was not the Star Spec which is very new to market. The older versions of the Direzza were not up to snuff.
The Direzza comes in an Ultra Performance version. But that one pales in comparison to the new one.
The brand new Direzza Z1 Star Spec is an incredible tire.
You didn't go from AWD to FWD, you went from AWD to 1WD.
Tires are of course extremely important. But coming (like you did) from a car that has AWD and limited slip differentials, I'm constantly spinning tires in the Fit when I try to pull out. It breaks traction so easily that I'm not sure tires will fix it. You may want to consider an LSD.
That was another one I had forgotten about; the Bridgestone RE-01's
The guys in my autocross club (the really serious ones) were saying this was the hands down best street tire... the Direzza also came up as being a close favorite.
However the Kuhmo XS is a much more affordable tire and like from what I have been hearing it is better than the RT615's
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