Enduratech Coilovers

[kenchan]

here's a diagram for those not sure wat wheel rate is vs spring rate.

wheel rate is taken at the tires where as spring rate is measurement
taken at the spring to measure the amount of force needed to
compress the spring/suspension.

depending on the structure of the suspension, different spring rate
are needed to achieve the ideal dump force.

on the EnduraTech system the springs are pretty ideal for how the
kit works with consideration to the Fit and the fixed rate dampers it
comes with. i would definitely not go less on the front or higher on
the rear with this kit.

[kennef]

Originally Posted by kenchan

here's a diagram for those not sure wat wheel rate is vs spring rate.

wheel rate is taken at the tires where as spring rate is measurement
taken at the spring to measure the amount of force needed to
compress the spring/suspension.

depending on the structure of the suspension, different spring rate
are needed to achieve the ideal dump force.

on the EnduraTech system the springs are pretty ideal for how the
kit works with consideration to the Fit and the fixed rate dampers it
comes with. i would definitely not go less on the front or higher on
the rear with this kit.

does the enduratech suspension change the mounting points? if not, we can say that the motion ratio is the same.

even if we have no roll bar or really underdampened valving, i really doubt that the stiffer spring rate up front will produce even OEM type front-to-rear balance in terms of wheel rate. it should be worse. i will say that the stiffer springs overall should make the car feel more responsive, but basically, this setup should ultimately understeer even more than the OEM suspension (assuming no changes in alignment or ride height).

[kenchan]

Originally Posted by kennef

does the enduratech suspension change the mounting points? if not, we can say that the motion ratio is the same.

even if we have no roll bar or really underdampened valving, i really doubt that the stiffer spring rate up front will produce even OEM type front-to-rear balance in terms of wheel rate. it should be worse. i will say that the stiffer springs overall should make the car feel more responsive, but basically, this setup should ultimately understeer even more than the OEM suspension (assuming no changes in alignment or ride height).

kennef- have you even tried the ET's? you should, cause you will
agree with me that the spring rates are well balanced for the car with
the dampers it comes with for what it is... a comfy suspension tuned
for dailydriving and some weekend sprited drives.

you can use numbers and theories as a starting point, but it is trial and
error that at the end, proves wat works in real world conditions.

otherwise, why do you think so many engineers go to the roads and track
to test everything?

[kennef]

Originally Posted by kenchan

kennef- have you even tried the ET's? you should, cause you will
agree with me that the spring rates are well balanced for the car with
the dampers it comes with for what it is... a comfy suspension tuned
for dailydriving and some weekend sprited drives.

you can use numbers and theories as a starting point, but it is trial and
error that at the end, proves wat works in real world conditions.

otherwise, why do you think so many engineers go to the roads and track
to test everything?

unfortunately, there is a limit to my bank account. i refuse to try stuff and find out if it works ok or not; hence my choice of swift springs. i had an idea of what i wanted, swift made a product that made the most sense by far. i can tell already that the ETs are not for me, but i'll emphasize that though they may not be for me, others may find them just fine. and i can tell you that they aren't for me because the spring rates are incorrect from a balance point of view.

[kenchan]

Originally Posted by kennef

unfortunately, there is a limit to my bank account. i refuse to try stuff and find out if it works ok or not; hence my choice of swift springs. i had an idea of what i wanted, swift made a product that made the most sense by far. i can tell already that the ETs are not for me, but i'll emphasize that though they may not be for me, others may find them just fine. and i can tell you that they aren't for me because the spring rates are incorrect from a balance point of view.

basic on what, your swift springs or any lowering spring in general
that are sort of made to work on your stock dampers? you cant compare
some cheap spring set to these coilovers.

also, you may find it interesting that there are quite a bit of setups
running higher spring rate on the front, not just the fit application but
on other cars as well.

until you try it in person and experiment you wont understand the
reason behind it all... until then, all that stuff in your head is just
stuff in your head. that is my conclusion after experimenting with
many sus setups on many different cars.

[kennef]

Originally Posted by kenchan

basic on what, your swift springs or any lowering spring in general
that are sort of made to work on your stock dampers? you cant compare
some cheap spring set to these coilovers.

also, you may find it interesting that there are quite a bit of setups
running higher spring rate on the front, not just the fit application but
on other cars as well.

until you try it in person and experiment you wont understand the
reason behind it all... until then, all that stuff in your head is just
stuff in your head. that is my conclusion after experimenting with
many sus setups on many different cars.

i can't lie, i refuse to take such logic seriously. "because many others do it" or "because these are more expensive than those" are poorly constructed arguments that aren't convincing.

i'll speak from my own experience. the off-the-shelf damping and spring rates on KW's V2 and V3 for the CT9A Evo has a spring rate balance similar to the ETs that we're talking about in this thread. again, we'll assume that there is no change to motion ratio, which is important because we can isolate what the intended use of the suspension is just by comparing the product's spring rate vs. stock.

look at redlinetimeattack.com and look at how many, many of the cars that place in the top 3 of each class say "robispec." almost all of those cars run a variant of KW coilovers based on the same shock body as the as the off-the-shelf stuff, but run a Front-to-rear balance that i think makes more sense, which would be a rear rate that is stiffer than the front.

while the fit and the evo are not the same car, there are some notable similarities. such as the 60/40 weight distribution. even more interestingly, the evo applies torque to the rear wheels, which would lead many to expect some concession to a lighter rear rear-wheel rate to ensure traction at the rear.

instead, all of the successfull robispec'd cars run something like an 8/9k at a minimum. how much more so do you think that a FWD, with no driving torque at the rear wheels to consume some of the available grip, should have a harder spring/wheel rate in the back?

i know that not everyone intends to enter their ET equipped at the next time attack, and that is not my point. i'm saying that i wouldn't buy a suspension that would make my car understeer even more than stock, even if it lowers the car nicely, or enhances transient response. i recognize that what i want may not be what anyone else is interested in, but i post this to emphasize the point that if someone is willing to throw the cash at some coilovers, it's worth your while to read up a little bit about what spring rates mean, and call up the manufacturer and talk to the engineers. ask them about their design philosophy with a particular product becuase you may not be getting exactly what you want. i wouldn't just drop that much coin without a pretty thorough understanding of what i was getting.

[kenchan]

well kennef- it's your lucky day. i already experimented the ET's
and they are a GO.

[kennef]

Originally Posted by kenchan

well kennef- it's your lucky day. i already experimented the ET's
and they are a GO.

for you, and as i have said before, that's a good thing.

[kenchan]

Originally Posted by kennef

for you, and as i have said before, that's a good thing.

free bump for EnduraTechs.

[chaplain2FIT]

Another Bump for ET's. Coilovers are great and they handle very well and I can go over train tracks and it feels like the stock supension. Great supension

[randay]

how much shipped to 96817? pm please

[Konad]

Sorry I dont feel like digging through the thread but any word on stiffer springs being available? I thought I read that somewhere, I would love to purchase them for my coils. They just really aren't firm enough for me.

[kenchan]

i believe you can go 1k up from the 5/3.

[kennef]

Originally Posted by Konad

Sorry I dont feel like digging through the thread but any word on stiffer springs being available? I thought I read that somewhere, I would love to purchase them for my coils. They just really aren't firm enough for me.

do you already have the ETs?

[Konad]

Originally Posted by kennef

do you already have the ETs?

Yes, not trying to bash I just prefer a little stiffer ride. I'm a perfectionist.

[kenchan]

went to visit downtown last night and i have to say the ET's did
great..meaning forgiving enough for driving normally over the
craters and huge dips and humps down Congress with the wife
and yet stiff enough i can take some nice fun corners down
lake shore drive. this includes no abs noise during braking
pretty hard over giangous dips.

she didnt complain one bit. if it was higher sprun the car
would just hop and loose traction of the asphalt, abs noise would
come back again like the factory/stock dampers + lowering springs
setup.

[honda_david]

in the market for coilovers...
what's the lowest it can go? (inches off the ground)
can these coilovers go all the way to being dumped?

[kenchan]

Originally Posted by honda_david

in the market for coilovers...
what's the lowest it can go? (inches off the ground)
can these coilovers go all the way to being dumped?

front can go pretty low, like -3".

the rear can go about -2"

[vince]

i want endura-techs! hope its not expensive shipping to canada ><

[joquio]

Originally Posted by vince

i want endura-techs! hope its not expensive shipping to canada ><

Hey I'm on the same boat as you!!!
Maybe we can get a deal??? /hint /hint