Fit Suspension & Brake ModificationsThreads discussing suspension and brake related modifications for the Honda Fit
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I'm dense I guess. The OE bump stop is NOT re-used correct? Do we need one? I've got the 811's in a box ready to go for this weekend. Another question- when installing the bushing on the new shock studs, how do you know how far on it goes? The pictures don't seem to show the same type of threads on the OE and new shocks. The bushing DOES thread onto the stud, right? Again, I'm dense.
Thanks for all your hard work with this writeup!
Matt
Last edited by eyedryve; 10-09-2008 at 11:22 PM.
Reason: another question
I'm dense I guess. The OE bump stop is NOT re-used correct? Do we need one? I've got the 811's in a box ready to go for this weekend. Another question- when installing the bushing on the new shock studs, how do you know how far on it goes? The pictures don't seem to show the same type of threads on the OE and new shocks. The bushing DOES thread onto the stud, right? Again, I'm dense.
Thanks for all your hard work with this writeup!
Matt
That is correct. The stock shock bump stops are inside the "dust boot" sleeve. On the air shocks, there is no dust boot, or rather, the dust boot is sealed to the lower shock body by the rubber air bag. You can't use the factory bump stops because you can't get inside the air bag part of the air shocks. There may be bump stops inside the air shocks, but the air chambers pretty much eliminate the need for a bump stop. You will need to pry off the large steel washers from the tops of the bump stops, and re-use the washers for the top mounts of the air shocks.
The metal bushings from the stock shocks are threaded all the way to the bottom of the studs of the air shocks, but remember to put a large washer that you pried off the bump stops over the stud before you thread the bushing on the stud. Then the stock rubber bushing is next, and push that all the way to the bottom of the metal bushing. Then poke the stud through the mounting hole in the fender well as you wedge the bottom eye with a cupped washer (supplied with the air shocks) on each side of the lower shock mount.
I pulled a shock from my 2009 Sport to match up against the Monroe MA811 I received from Amazon.com. The Monroe is 1.5 inches too short.
So, I looked up specs on the Monroe database and the MA793 is the right length, same stud size on top, but the bottom is 1 1/2 instead of 1 3/8. I figure I can shim the bolt on the bottom with some very thin metal - like a cut up coke can. We'll see. I am returning the 811's and ordered the 793's. Free shipping right now!
I pulled a shock from my 2009 Sport to match up against the Monroe MA811 I received from Amazon.com. The Monroe is 1.5 inches too short.
So, I looked up specs on the Monroe database and the MA793 is the right length, same stud size on top, but the bottom is 1 1/2 instead of 1 3/8. I figure I can shim the bolt on the bottom with some very thin metal - like a cut up coke can. We'll see. I am returning the 811's and ordered the 793's. Free shipping right now!
Dave
Nice work! Your research will make Monroe wonder what is causing the large increase in sales for THAT model shock now. Future '09 Fit owners will owe you.
So I had at the thing tonight. I followed the directions by Manxman completely. Here's what I found out that I didn't expect to find.
First thing, there is nearly no clearance between the inside of the tire and the shock body. In fact, on one side it was rubbing. So I took the spacers out of the bottom of the eye mount, and put both of them on the outside to push the shock another 1/8 inch to the inside. Now it clears, but so barely that it's pretty scary. I went ahead and did the same thing on the other side so that both washers (and a third thin one to take up space) were all on the outside of the eye mount. FWIW, my tires are new Goodyear Eagle carbon fiber sidewall something or others in the original Fit Sport size.
Next- on the drivers side, the valve/fitting on the top of the shock body aims slightly out towards the tire while aiming rearward, just enough that despite the shims to push the shock towards the middle of the car, I still get some light rubbing on the fitting. I did try to rotate the top of the shock while keeping the bottom in the eye (with the weight off the shock by jack) and I couldn't get the top to turn. Should it? Maybe I need to pull the thing and try again.
Grabbing the top of the stud with vicegrips is complicated by the latch mechanism for the rear seats, so you have to approach from the side, and it is hard to hold the thing still without mauling it. I may try some simple adjustable channel locks straight on. Well see.
I did repeatedly raise and lower the car onto the wheels after installation to see if anything rubs. From raised to sitting still on it's own weight, I don't see anything, but really, we are talking about 1-2mm max on the flange above the air bladder, and after driving home, the bumps and such rubs the top of the inside sidewall on the fitting a bit.
Next, the stud for the new shock is a smaller diameter than the Honda one. Once I unthreaded the bushing off the original stud, I "threaded" it onto the new one, until I realized that I could just pull it off without unthreading it- smaller stud by a little I guess. I wonder if a little shifting around in there will ever amount to anything. Oh, and yes, I did use the OE rubbber mounts and washers, and the new nut.
Finally, 20 PSI lifts the rear a lot. I think 10psi would be better, but it's really a bit lifted there too. I know the min is 20, so I hope 10 won't hurt anything- headlights are aimed at the ground. I know this is a great option for leveling when loaded, but when not loaded I would like to not have the funny car look.
Hoping it will get better with time.
BTW- anyone know where to get more of that line in case I end up damaging it with some of this clearance thing? I ran the lines pretty much like suggested, so I don't anticipate anything, but you never know.
Hoping I can figure this out. Ideas on the clearance issue or the fitting/valve issue on the top of the shock body?
FYI- the ride is really nice, so long as I don't blow the fitting off or flat a tire... I don't know how likely either is with the clearance and/or rubbing going on. The rear is a nice ride though.
Wow. Maybe this won't work on '09s. The top of the shock is the air chamber. The sleeve type air bag is permanently clamped to the bottom, or the actual shock body, so you won't be able to turn the top of the shock. If you are that close to rubbing the tire against the air fitting just standing still, you're going to rub like hell in every tight turn and every dip and overload condition as the tires distort. Your air pressure will go away in no time at all.
It's up to you if you want to run them a while, but I predict that the air holding ability of the system will fail very quickly. My advice would be to take 'em off. But then again, since you have "used" them, you vendor probably won't take them back. The tire rubbing on the plastic air fitting won't make the tire go flat, but a tire that is going flat on its own will sure as hell tear off the plastic fitting and hose. Good luck!
Thanks for the insight. FYI, mine's an 07. Maybe the tires are a bit square compared to others that size- and to answer ahead, yes, they are the stock size in Goodyear.
Sorry- I confused you with someone else who thought he had found a Monroe crossover that would work on the 09's. I hope that your tires don't cause problems with the shocks.
are substantially different, but maybe they are. They do look square. But I did choose to not keep trying to modify this thing further and further and further, since I was starting to get some marring and small dents in the inside sidewalls after one day of driving around- fortunately no cuts or fraying. My clearance on the shock body was about nil under load (marring of body with tire), and the flange above the air boot was responsible for the sidewall dents (I think it will be fine, but I wouldn't have thought so at some point).
I did LOVE the ride of the new ones though.
Good luck to you guys.
So, I pulled the new things and I put the old ones back on. FYI, the studs on the originals are NOT full of soft metal from the bushings- it's the rounded off threads from the studs themselves. I was able to use a die kit to cut them clean, although with a little slop because of the shorter thread length. I used two nuts this time on them, and blue threadlocked them at that- hoping I don't have to order the OE's at $116 each (dealer).
I am bummed it didn't work. It did seem awefully cool at first, but to those of you that are thinking of this, beware that it might not be quite as straightforward as you'd like.
Man, I am really sorry to hear about your problem. Good choice of a solution, not to risk your tires. But I would not have imagined that anyone would make a random choice of tire that would make these shocks such a bad combination. We don't have much room on these cars for ANY modification anywhere, and the Monroe's are a fairly close fit with stock springs, wheels and tires. But your outcome is still a surprise, and I wish that it had worked out better. If you can contact Monroe and buy a new set of fittings and air lines, you can probably sell the barely used shock set on the classified ad forum without much loss of value. Good luck!!!
P.s. My entire family has moved from CA to NC, and are constantly telling me what nice people now surround them. I will visit your state next Spring, but I have been there before and have no desire to take up residence. Too humid in the Summer, too cold in the Winter.
I installed the Monroe MA793 on my 2009 Sport. These are definitely the right length (longer than the 2008 Fit).
The only difference from the install reported here - you have to "sleeve" the bottom mounting bolt because the bottom mount on the shock is a size too large. I cut up a coke can and wrapped it around the bolt till snug fit, tightened it up, and there is no play or noise. You have to be careful - the cut can is sharp.
Air pressure seems fine. I'm not thrilled with the plastic T connector that is the air fill - seems too flimsy. I'm pretty sure my previous air shocks had a metal fill valve (many years ago on International Harvestor Scout).
At 25 pounds pressure it seems to me to be pretty much stock height and performance. I have it at 50 pounds to make sure it holds air overnight (I don't like the added height and "butt feel" says the car is a little looser) - but figure the higher pressure will only be there for added weight in the back.
We'll see. If I don't like it can always go back to stock shocks. I think the 2009 stock shocks and new suspension (with rear sway bar) is a much tighter performance.
I installed the Monroe MA793 on my 2009 Sport. These are definitely the right length (longer than the 2008 Fit).
The only difference from the install reported here - you have to "sleeve" the bottom mounting bolt because the bottom mount on the shock is a size too large. I cut up a coke can and wrapped it around the bolt till snug fit, tightened it up, and there is no play or noise. You have to be careful - the cut can is sharp.
Air pressure seems fine. I'm not thrilled with the plastic T connector that is the air fill - seems too flimsy. I'm pretty sure my previous air shocks had a metal fill valve (many years ago on International Harvestor Scout).
At 25 pounds pressure it seems to me to be pretty much stock height and performance. I have it at 50 pounds to make sure it holds air overnight (I don't like the added height and "butt feel" says the car is a little looser) - but figure the higher pressure will only be there for added weight in the back.
We'll see. If I don't like it can always go back to stock shocks. I think the 2009 stock shocks and new suspension (with rear sway bar) is a much tighter performance.
Dave
You are right about the metal tee in the old days. PM macbuddy- I think that he found a metal substitute to use in his installation. Some people have complained about a "wallowing" symptom in hard cornering that they feel is caused by one shock compressing air to the opposite side. I thought that I might have experienced this at the minimum 20 psi pressure, so raised mine to 30, and it seems OK now. But I don't drive in track conditions.
Discussing this with macbuddy, who does participate in Auto X, we thought that if an adaptor could be found to attach a Schrader valve to each air nipple on the shocks, you could isolate the pressure transfer from occurring. Autosportcatalog.com sells a balancing dual tire filler, with one accurate guage, one Schrader valve for filling, and two hoses with latch fittings for each tire valve. I have one and it works exactly as advertised. If I ever get around to finding a way to do away with the whole fill line system and put Schraders in each shock, my dual tire filler/pressure balancer will come in very handy.
You live in a fairly heavy industry area. See if you can find, online, a business listing for a franchise called "Crawford Fitting Company- Swage-Lock fittings, Whitey and Nupro Valves". They sell a huge variety of "instrument air" fittings and valves, and may have a metal tee with the same thread sizes on all ends. May also have adaptors to "Schraderize" the shocks. Obviously, the threads on the tee and the shocks are the same. Good luck, and let us know if you find anything. Macbuddy would be glad to share whatever he has done. I'll be seeing him on Sat. and will ask him to visit this thread again soon.
Dave
Important note: The dual tire filler/balancing hose/gauge set that I mentioned in the above post does not work on the plastic tees at such low pressures. So I just fill each shock one at a time. No biggie.
About this: For handling, it is best to run single lines to each shock than to use the tees. Reason being; each time you turn the steering wheel and pitch the car, you pump air from the shock that needs the air to the one that doesn't causing the car to lean even more. So I would suggest that your car will handle better than the ones with the stock 2 lines into one tee setup. Good!
Last edited by lhcbc; 04-12-2009 at 05:45 PM.
Reason: spelling.
Ok do they make a system that self levels the car by the load you are carrying? I would hate to adjust the car everytime one of my big friends got in the back or I was at hd getting mulch. lol
Joe
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