I am doing a somewhat heavy stereo install in my Fit. I'm adding a few hundred pounds (300 including small batteries, wiring, sound deadening, amps, subs and enclosure). So, this has to be accounted for with my suspension.
I spent some time analzying the rear suspension today. I ordered new stock struts for the front, a rear shock sample and a rear coil spring. I will be sending these pieces out to be Dyno'd, and then end up with custom struts and shocks. I will know soon what I'm doing with the rear springs.
For the front springs, I'm using the TR1's, v1 (less drop on the rear spring).
I loaded the car up with an approximate of equipment and ended up dropping the rear about two inches. This is pathetic. I can't leave the stock spring in, because it's too soft. The rear shock is a real issue as well.
The length of the rear shock out of the car from the top washer to the center line of the bottom mounting bolt is 20.75 inches. Compressed is 17.75 in. I couldn't believe how easy I could compress the shock with my hands!!!
With no extra weight in the car, the resting length of the shock was 18.625 inches. This means that there is just under an inch of compression available before the shock "sinks the pink".
What I'm looking for is an strong increase in compression, perhaps an increase in stroke, and significant increase in rebound over the stock shock.
I have taken this road before with another Honda so this isn't new to me.
I'm am probably going to put the rear T1R spring in even thou it lowers the car, so I can see what it does. It has significantly more spring rate, so as I load the car, perhaps it will resist sagging. Otherwise, I'll have a custom rear spring made, but that one will really cost (probably what the two struts and two shocks will cost combined).
For those of you who want to replace your struts and shocks, I may have an option for you in about a month. AJ Racing might have something by then as well but we will see.
Best regards to those who feel the bumps everyday.
Let us know how you make out... I'm kind of looking into the rear suspension issue also, I just got 17's and they rub slightly. but the suspension travel in the rear is ridiculous. I rolled the fenders and looking in other ways to stop the rubbing under load. I want to put a system in but with my current step up there no way I can the weight would kill me...
Monroe AirLifts MA811 for 93 Cavalier fit virtually directly and are adjustable of course by pressure. I carry virtually machine shop in my trunk and worse sometimes two 250lb guys in back seats. The air Lifts installed directly except for adding washers to fill the gap in the yoke because the stock shocks have a wider bushing. With only regular load I find about 40 lb is the ticket and 550 lb with the max load. The car still handles very well on track.Good luck.
NOTE CHANGE FROM 791 to 811. They are for 82 to 94 Cavalier.
Last edited by mahout; 09-29-2008 at 08:07 PM.
Reason: change air pressures
Can you post some pictures of the installed items? My guy that is making my struts and shocks has got some issues in his life and is really moving like a turtle.
Would love to see the dyno results of your OEM shocks/struts, and the rates of the springs if you got them. I'm probably going to be looking at custom struts/shocks as well, but I can't swap springs without getting outside the rule set for H-Stock in SCCA autoX.
If you don't mind me asking, what's the source for your strut inserts, and what's the cost like?
Thanks!
HF
__________________
Formerly Fitless...
Now featuring an 08 BBP
Monroe AirLifts 791 for 93 Cavalier fit virtually directly aand are adjustable of course. I carry virtually machine shop in my trunk and worse sometimes two 250lb guys in back seats. The air Lifts installed directly except for adding washers to fill the gap in the yoke because the stock shocks have a wider bushing. With only regular load I find about 20 lb is the ticket and 30 lb with the max load. The car still handles very well on track.Good luck.
Thanks for the tip- it never occurred to me that air shocks might be able to fit. That solves my occasional overload problems, and wow!- the air shocks can hold up to 150 psi air! When you have to haul a car full of gold bars, or small elephants.
note changed air pressues. my 40 yr old gage had given up the ghost; the new one had better info. Kidda thought tyhe pressures were not correct based on prior use.
The installation is a snap. Only adding washers to take up the excess space in yoke was anything like difficult. Still doing very nicely.
Worse, the MaxAirs are 811 not 791. Old age is getting to me Apparently. Sorry. But they are for 82 to 94 Cavaliers. And other GM.
note changed air pressues. my 40 yr old gage had given up the ghost; the new one had better info. Kidda thought tyhe pressures were not correct based on prior use.
The installation is a snap. Only adding washers to take up the excess space in yoke was anything like difficult. Still doing very nicely.
Aside from the air shock's ability to maintain/adjust ride height, have you noticed any change/improvement in ride quality over Honda stock shocks? Meaning, is there any better spring rebound control?
Monroe AirLifts MA791 for 93 Cavalier fit virtually directly and are adjustable of course by pressure. I carry virtually machine shop in my trunk and worse sometimes two 250lb guys in back seats. The air Lifts installed directly except for adding washers to fill the gap in the yoke because the stock shocks have a wider bushing. With only regular load I find about 40 lb is the ticket and 550 lb with the max load. The car still handles very well on track.Good luck.
Nice tip. Do you know if the shock must be from a 93 Cavalier, or will later model years work? Reason I ask is the Cavalier was redesigned in 95, and most of the aftermarket shocks for the car seem to be available from 95-on. Do you know if the shocks for a 93 are interchangeable with 95-on Cavaliers?
Where am I going with this, you maybe asking? I'm wondering if adjustable Koni rear shocks for a '95 Cavalier (or any Cavalier) will work on the Fit.
Nice tip. Do you know if the shock must be from a 93 Cavalier, or will later model years work? Reason I ask is the Cavalier was redesigned in 95, and most of the aftermarket shocks for the car seem to be available from 95-on. Do you know if the shocks for a 93 are interchangeable with 95-on Cavaliers?
Where am I going with this, you maybe asking? I'm wondering if adjustable Koni rear shocks for a '95 Cavalier (or any Cavalier) will work on the Fit.
Excellent question. I hope that "mahout" answers both of us.
BTW, my private name for Honda Element drivers is "mahouts", because my private name for Elements is "Elephants". Mahouts are the name for elephant trainers/controllers/drivers of elephants used for labor in Africa, India, Asia, Indonesia. Wondering if this "mahout" picked his alias with similar reasoning (but doubt it).
I resemble that remark, since I traded in my Element for the Fit.
I did some hunting around on the Cavalier question but no answers so far. I did find that KYB specifies different part numbers for rear shocks of pre- and post-95 Cavaliers. But that could be because the valving is different, not the structure. They make their AGX adjustable shocks for the 95-on Cavalier only.
It's hard finding decent pictures of the shocks online to compare. I think the answer might be to hit a junkyard and look for Cavaliers. Maybe I'd even get lucky and find one with Konis on it!
Excellent question. I hope that "mahout" answers both of us.
BTW, my private name for Honda Element drivers is "mahouts", because my private name for Elements is "Elephants". Mahouts are the name for elephant trainers/controllers/drivers of elephants used for labor in Africa, India, Asia, Indonesia. Wondering if this "mahout" picked his alias with similar reasoning (but doubt it).
No, my CB call sign was given me by several truckers many years ago for 'herding the big trucks' on the interstate. Before that it was firecracker, named for my 75 orange Honda Civicwith a 15 foot white aerial.
Now for your answers:
FIRST< THE MAXAIRS ARE MA811 not 791. But it is for the Cavalier. Least I got that right. Sorry. Repeat MAXAIR 811 for the FIT. Thanks for catching my error.
I'm not at my office so I don't have my Monroe applications book handy but I'm pretty sure the MA811's fit more than the 93 model year. Actually 84 to 94 model years I think.. But if you order the shocks you don't care what other models they fit, you will want to order the Monroe MA811's for 82 to 94 Cavaliers.. And any parts store with a Monroe shock book will be able to show you that the shocks also probably fit Buick skylarks, Caddy Cimarrons, Olds Calais, and Pontiac Sunbirds, among others since they are all the same basic chassis.
Tomorrow we'll try to get photos posted.
PS we called the Element Pigmy Herses after the original Honda wagons.
Last edited by mahout; 02-15-2008 at 10:35 PM.
Reason: CHANGE MA791 to MA811 for Fit.
No, my CB call sign was given me by several truckers many years ago for 'herding the big trucks' on the interstate. Before that it was firecracker, named for my 75 orange Honda Civicwith a 15 foot white aerial.
Now for your answers:
FIRST< THE MAXAIRS ARE MA811 not 791. But it is for the Cavalier. Least I got that right. Sorry. Repeat MAXAIR 811 for the FIT. Thanks for catching my error.
I'm not at my office so I don't have my Monroe applications book handy but I'm pretty sure the MA811's fit more than the 93 model year. Actually 84 to 94 model years I think.. But if you order the shocks you don't care what other models they fit, you will want to order the Monroe MA811's for 82 to 94 Cavaliers.. And any parts store with a Monroe shock book will be able to show you that the shocks also probably fit Buick skylarks, Caddy Cimarrons, Olds Calais, and Pontiac Sunbirds, among others since they are all the same basic chassis.
Tomorrow we'll try to get photos posted.
PS we called the Element Pigmy Herses after the original Honda wagons.
Thanks for ALL clarifications, especially the correct model number of the shocks. But it was my own back-of-my-mind question, and Skimmer's point about valving, that prompted my question about the ride quality of the Monroes vs. the stock Fit rear shocks. I don't like the Fit's tendency to leap up from a hard compression, and try to throw the car off a mountain curve. It is hard to imagine that the Monroe shocks have exactly the SAME ride as Fit stock shocks, so I am very interested in your impressions.
Skimmer,
I would be really, REALLY surprised if KYB changed the valving from one Cav to another. I'd bet it's an end treatment or length change more than valving. They HAVE to change that stuff to fit another chassis, but the valving would take work...
HF
__________________
Formerly Fitless...
Now featuring an 08 BBP
I resemble that remark, since I traded in my Element for the Fit.
I did some hunting around on the Cavalier question but no answers so far. I did find that KYB specifies different part numbers for rear shocks of pre- and post-95 Cavaliers. But that could be because the valving is different, not the structure. They make their AGX adjustable shocks for the 95-on Cavalier only.
It's hard finding decent pictures of the shocks online to compare. I think the answer might be to hit a junkyard and look for Cavaliers. Maybe I'd even get lucky and find one with Konis on it!
Thanks for ALL clarifications, especially the correct model number of the shocks. But it was my own back-of-my-mind question, and Skimmer's point about valving, that prompted my question about the ride quality of the Monroes vs. the stock Fit rear shocks. I don't like the Fit's tendency to leap up from a hard compression, and try to throw the car off a mountain curve. It is hard to imagine that the Monroe shocks have exactly the SAME ride as Fit stock shocks, so I am very interested in your impressions.
The ride quality is good as original momma thinks and she is the first to whine about my race-car setups. We are running 205/40x17 tires on 17x7/42 wheels. Though I don't have comparisons (we put the 205/40x17 as soon as we got home) the ride is as good as another Fit I drove. Any difference is probably due to going to 40 series tires. We have done some corner carving and found the shocks excellent at about 40 lb air. Even tried a run in the icy conditions we got last week.
Next Sat weekend we'll take it to VIR and see what it's really like. Did try it with 2 big guys in
back. Although they complained of lack of room there was not sagging or rubbing at 60 psi.
I doubt the MaxAirs have equal valving either but they do seem to control the back end very well. We selected the MA811's due to end fittings and the weight of the vehicles they were designed for because we needed the load carrying ability. Way back in the old days before we had shock dynos that was the way we got adjustable tunable shocks, Still works.
Interesting point you make about the Fit rebounding from compression and tending to oversteer the rear end. There is a dip in our test track that I might be able to use to test that condition. Its just subjective but I haven't sensed the quick rebound that it seems you are describing. It may be there is less compression and therefore less rebound so the 'jump' to oversteer is not so pronounced. Very interesting. VIR will certainly push that tendency up the hill. And down the carousel.
Sorry I didn't get photos of our installation; we got involved with a little conversation on jets selection based on weather conditions at Daytona. Thats going to be one heckuva race !!!
If you live near VIR we'll be there Sat; you can sign in at no charge as pit crew for HPDS #59 and you can inspect for yourself.
Last, I'd be careful about using other shocks that aren't adjustable; if you are going to use KYB's I stick with AGX's to allow some tuning. My experience with MaxAirs is they are a little softer valved than you would expect and expect to use air pressure to make up the difference.
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