STRUT BARS, rear, front, upper lower questions and answers

[JDMchris.com]

cusco rear will work fine. if you want a lower arm bar then T1R, J's

[JDM_DOHC_SiR]

Originally Posted by sosoqtpinoy

Yipee...i fixed my issue... just by uninstallin the mounts and reinstalling it by pushing the strut forward while tighting it... and loosening the bar in the middle and raising it up and pushing it forward while tighting it... so no more rubbing ...hopefullythe problem wont occur again...

Glad you fixed your problem

[sosoqtpinoy]

thxs dude! now im working on my rear cusco strut bar...!!!

[RyanR]

you're pretty much dead on. i doubt rear shock tower bars do anything more than add weight and take up cargo room.
c pillar bars fall into the same catagory on the fit. to further back it up, take a look at the diagram of the fit on this page, http://www.hondanews.com/categories/872/releases/3452.
the chassis is already reinforced with stronger steel right where the c-pillar would bolt on.

[manxman]

That makes three of us in the "Strut Bars Are Bullsh!t Club". All style, no (engineering) substance.

[fitboy408]

Wow, I think you hit that right on. Unfortunately, I bought a set of tower braces without thinking about it, and when I had them put on I really couldn't see how it could help more than hurt... (added weight, cargo limiter, etc.)

When I get around to installing adjustable shocks I'll take them off and put 'em up on craigslist or something. :P

[quangalang]

i also agree

[sosoqtpinoy]

damn and i was about to invest in a cusco rear strut bar... i already have a cusco front tower strut bar. wat to do ...wat to do...

[manxman]

Originally Posted by sosoqtpinoy

damn and i was about to invest in a cusco rear strut bar... i already have a cusco front tower strut bar. wat to do ...wat to do...

You can still buy the rear bar if you want to. You just can't be in the SBAB Club. Installing the front bar should have shown you the silliness of this type of add-on. It did that for me.

[fitboy408]

Basically you're PAYING CUSCO to making your car HEAVIER and obstruct CARGO ROOM! Haha don't worry I came across this same sad revalation when I got around to putting my Tanabe bar in. *^_^

[thejroisgo]

thanks for making this thread, I'm new to moding cars and it sounded like a good idea at the time. but looking at pictures of the frame and thinking of how strong the car is they seem pointless. I will be using the rear strut bar to attach my harness too.

[ewdysar]

Your welcome. I'm not saying that all bars are bogus, but that depends on how they're mounted and whether the spots being braced actually move under load.

I was behind a Civic Si last might and his C-pillar bar ends up only a couple of inches inside the rear hatch near the bottom of the rear window. That bar could add stiffness to the large rear hatch opening.

Porsche 911 front suspension consoles actually flex outward under heavy cornering, bars that tie the consoles together do make a measurable difference. 914s use the same struts and consoles, but have a bulkhead right in line with the upper strut mounts, so even though the same bar would fit, it doesn't improve anything.

Because these Porsche models have been raced for a long time, many have been cut apart to examine where the structure has started to fail, indicating movement under load. Most reinforcements are welded into place; as plates, tubing or bars. Bolt in roll cages are sometimes not allowed because they are not truly tied into the body structure.

thejroisgo, Check with your harness manufacturer to find out if they think that the "rear strut bar" is suitably strong to use as a harness mount. I would think that the harness bar needs to be attached directly to the body/frame, not the shock absorbers. Many of these bars are sold as camera mounting bars because they would not be safe as harness mounts. This is serious, this decision can affect your life.

Eric

[manxman]

Originally Posted by ewdysar

Your welcome. I'm not saying that all bars are bogus, but that depends on how they're mounted and whether the spots being braced actually move under load.

I was behind a Civic Si last might and his C-pillar bar ends up only a couple of inches inside the rear hatch near the bottom of the rear window. That bar could add stiffness to the large rear hatch opening.

Porsche 911 front suspension consoles actually flex outward under heavy cornering, bars that tie the consoles together do make a measurable difference. 914s use the same struts and consoles, but have a bulkhead right in line with the upper strut mounts, so even though the same bar would fit, it doesn't improve anything.

Because these Porsche models have been raced for a long time, many have been cut apart to examine where the structure has started to fail, indicating movement under load. Most reinforcements are welded into place; as plates, tubing or bars. Bolt in roll cages are sometimes not allowed because they are not truly tied into the body structure.

Check with your harness manufacturer to find out if they think that the "rear strut bar" is suitably strong to use as a harness mount. I would think that the harness bar needs to be attached directly to the body/frame, not the shock absorbers. Many of these bars are sold as camera mounting bars because they would not be safe as harness mounts. This is serious, this decision can affect your life.

Eric

Thanks for the thread, Erik. BTW, Altadena was one of my favorite "cruising" towns in the late '60s. Lots of "makeout" spots in the foothills.

The area surrounding the hatch is one of the strongest areas of the "unibody" design. It is a bulkhead, as is the firewall. These two bulkheads are just like the doorways in a submarine. They keep the walls from moving in relation to the floor and ceiling. The Fit body is a square tube that is reinforced at the firewall and the rear hatch to keep the square "square" during all conditions of driving.

Strut reinforcing bars MAY have some use in SOME car designs, NOT in the FIT. Current Ford Mustangs use struts for front suspension, and their V-8 engines have to weigh 3 times that of the Fit. I will grant the possibility that strut bars may improve handling of Ford Mustangs.

Fitfreak members and strut bar manufacturers/dealers who insist that their strut bars improve handling, will have to prove it with skid pad results, with professional drivers (not Butt Dyno), driving Fits both WITH strut bars and WITHOUT the bars, before I will concede that this accessory is anything but a way to waste money and space.

PHYSICS VS. SUBJECTIVE OPINION, not "I spent my money based on other people's bs and now I feel stupid but can't admit it".

At least three of us here have admitted it, and won't make the same mistake again. THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS FOR THESE FORUMS.

[AppleMac*Fit]

But don't they help in some Hondas? The front strut bar, that is...

A few years ago I put a front strut bar in my wife's 93 Acura Intera... and it did help cornering speeds of corners I am very familiar with. It cornered at a much higher speed than before (about 8 MPH higher on 30 MPH advised corners, if I recall correctly).

I just ordered one for my 98 Civic - I hope I didn't waste my money.

[ewdysar]

Originally Posted by AppleMac*Fit

But don't they help in some Hondas? The front strut bar, that is...

A few years ago I put a front strut bar in my wife's 93 Acura Intera... and it did help cornering speeds of corners I am very familiar with. It cornered at a much higher speed than before (about 8 MPH higher on 30 MPH advised corners, if I recall correctly).

I just ordered one for my 98 Civic - I hope I didn't waste my money.

This thread was created specifically about the rear bars on purpose. I think front bars can help, but it depends on the car. Many modern cars, including the Fit, have front suspensions based on the MacPhearson strut, where the body of the strut is structural and carries the spring and spindle, so the strut is integral to the location, movement and alignment of the front suspension. If the top of the strut moves in relation to the body/frame, the tire can lose cornering traction. For real improvements in strut suspensions, replacing the rubber bushings with monoballs will keep the strut accurately located in the console, then the only undesired movement will be where the body/frame flexes. Most modern unibody cars flex much less than the designed "give" in the stock bushings.

If the particular design needs reinforcement, then a bar can help. Most front bars are mounted to the suspension console, not the strut itself, that's good. You should also examine the other control points of the suspension to work towards eliminating slop, give and flex. Only fixing one thing will be an improvement, but you may be leaving a lot of potential untapped. You may also find that some modifications are more cost effective than others; more improvement for less money. Sharing that knowledge and experience, in my opinion, is what these forums are here for.

Eric

[RyanR]

honestly, i never noticed a difference on any of the hondas i've ever owned. which ranged from an 88 crx, to 95 integra, 97 integra type r, 95 civic, 97 civic and 00 civic si.
almost all of the cars listed were driven on a race track (road course) and i never noticed anything there either.
perhaps the reason people feel that they corner faster even on roads they know is because they feel the bar will help and it gives them the confidence to push their cars harder.
i will admit that the only bar i ever noticed a difference with was a front lower bar on my 88 crx. tried the same bar on my other cars and it did nothing.

[manxman]

Originally Posted by AppleMac*Fit

But don't they help in some Hondas? The front strut bar, that is...

A few years ago I put a front strut bar in my wife's 93 Acura Intera... and it did help cornering speeds of corners I am very familiar with. It cornered at a much higher speed than before (about 8 MPH higher on 30 MPH advised corners, if I recall correctly).

I just ordered one for my 98 Civic - I hope I didn't waste my money.

AMF-

As I said, these things may help some cars, but---

It's easy to convince yourself of anything that you want to believe. We all do it all the time. I will bet that the Integra could have taken the same curve at 8 mph higher without the bar. The addition of the bar gave you the confidence to try the higher speed, but my bet is that the bar only made the difference in you head.

Regarding your Civic, my bet is exactly the same. Once you buy and install the bar, you will convince yourself that magic happened. But, if there were enough movement of the STRUT TOWERS to make these bars effective, you would see paint flaking and cracks from metal fatigue in the sheet metal of the towers, and paint wear around the struts where they emerge through the hole in the towers. Show me ANY car, particularly ANY HONDA, with cracked strut towers or any signs of movement of the strut studs/pads/nuts.

No offense meant by my strong phraseology. You have a lot of company in your confusion. We all need to remove ourselves from the target marketing of worthless accessories.

[manxman]

Wow-

While I was correcting my spelling, two more posts beat me. We all seem to be saying the same things in different ways. So, we must be right, right?

[fit4kris]

While I posted minimal difference when I did the suspension, I think what helped really were the springs. I did everything at once and manx and I were discussing the front bar. If I would have done one piece at a time, maybe things would have been different but I tossed everything on at once. I will agree that the springs helped roll, but the strut bars, rear doesn't seem to do anything except cosmetic appeal. The front...well it is isn't really connecting to the struts more as to the towers and sheet metal.

IMO, I like my bars because they look good...But if you want more handling, springs and wider, stickier tires. when coil overs become more available, that will be the way to go.

Nice read though. I have noticed that this forum has a great deal of diversity and it is nice to be on one where not everyone is talking about how fast they are going but more so of the dynamics of the Fit in general...looking at every detail. Fun stuff.

Kris

[iheartmyGD3]

With that said , do you guys think this rear cage is worth buying ?