Spring Comparision

[rabbitron]

thanks for the explanation. coming from the vw world i know that too low is actually bad for performance. but with a pretty small difference in drop between the springs, i'd think the lower ones would be stiffer. but what you say totally makes sense.

i assume that the DF's are still slightly stiffer than stock, but they'll probably blow out the stock shocks quicker than the GF's too....hmmm decisions....

[kenchan]

Originally Posted by rabbitron

thanks for the explanation. coming from the vw world i know that too low is actually bad for performance. but with a pretty small difference in drop between the springs, i'd think the lower ones would be stiffer. but what you say totally makes sense.

i assume that the DF's are still slightly stiffer than stock, but they'll probably blow out the stock shocks quicker than the GF's too....hmmm decisions....

i run the DF's and they are quite a bit stiffer than stock nearing
the uncomfy range over bumpier roads. as far as blowing out the
stock dampers faster than GF's. not sure, it's usually the higher
spring rate (GF) that kills shocks faster. with the DF's you're
closer to the assumed stock rates yet also have the bumpstops
to assist over larger bumps more frequently.

GF's you're relying more on the actual damper's performance and
less on the bumpstops because you're riding higher...plus higher
spring rate.

it's not like the dampers change damp rate over its throw range,
so im assuming the DF's would be gentler on the dampers overall.

[smatts]

This is great information! I have just over 10,000 KM on my T1R S-Coils. The ride is not as stiff as I would like, and tends to be a bit bouncy.

Is a higher or lower spring rate more stiff?

[kenchan]

Originally Posted by smatts

This is great information! I have just over 10,000 KM on my T1R S-Coils. The ride is not as stiff as I would like, and tends to be a bit bouncy.

Is a higher or lower spring rate more stiff?

higher spring rates are stiffer... your bouncy ride could mean that
your spring rates are too high and dampers are over its capacity.

but need a better definition of 'bouncy.' cause you can have stiff
springs and stiff damp settings and people will still say that "its bouncy."

hahaha.

[rabbitron]

so from that list i'm liking the progress springs more and more, based on drop and comfort.

on my last car, a mk2 GTI, i had vogtland springs with a 40mm drop, matched to bilstein touring dampers, and this was a great set up for a daily driver. much easier to live with than the H&R sports/bilstein sports i had on a mk4 GTI. with the Fit i guess i'm trying to get it all, small drop, minimal comfort loss, and a sporty ride. i'm going to keep on reading reviews from people's experiences before i comit.

any spring rates on the eibach's yet?

[6speedmaster]

I have the Skunk2 springs and love it so far. Price was right too. $159 shipped on E-Bay

[SD_MR_FIT]

i got my tein stech for 100. i love them.

private seller through craigslist.

[redrumm]

i have sprint springs 190 shipped 1.7 drop front and rear

[jdjohnson9]

i have skunk2's and love them. i personally wouldnt go much lower then 1.5 front if your gonna do alot of driving. at low speeds and creeping over obsticles i still hit. my front lip is trashed anyway so it doesnt matter much now but still gives me chills when i hear the scrap. i dont know how you guys can make it lower then that.

[ciburri]

Mugen Mojo,
thank you for gathering that info. Rep points! It made me throw it in Excel and add Kg/mm brand as well.
CAN YOU ALL VERIFY DATA FOR ACCURACY AND ADD ANY OTHER BRANDS/ MODELS NOT LISTED, PLEASE?!
I added front to rear ratio calculation based on stiffness. That ratio clearly shows which springs create more oversteer based on stiffer rear spring ratio in relationship to the front on front wheel drive vehicle. Results are very interesting as well as educational.
Keep in mind that Progress rear sway bar adds to rear end stiffness ratio beside balancing/reducing body roll. That is why Progress springs have drastically smallest front to rear ratio (softest rear springs) and therefore least oversteer gain. I am guessing that bar adds about 50-80 lb/in to the rear end.
Based on the spread sheet in Excel and common sense, IMO, here are the conclusions:
#1 First choose amount of drop based on your driveway and local roads you drive on.
#2 If you are looking for comfort, but can't stand body roll, go with Progress! They are the least expensive of the bunch. They have the softest ratios and least alteration to balance (understeer to overtsteer). They are good for novice drivers or somebody getting their feet wet on track. Most already have done it, but once you get comfortable add Progress rear sway bar.
#3 Tanabe GF210 have stiffest front end, but one of the softest rear ends thus making for very much understeering set up. NOT GOOD FOR ROAD RACING!
#4 Best track balance (oversteer) and stiffest set up appears to be a toss up between Skunk2 and T1R.
#5 If you are daily driving your car and plan to hit a track at some point, pick the stiffest set up you can live with on a daily basis.

We all praise our own individual picks we purchased, but do we all know how they stack against others? Did we indeed make the right choice for our intender purpose (daily comfort, height, overall balance, track use,....)?
Comfort is a relative thing and tolerance level varies among drivers.
Basically what works great for some might be exactly opposite for others and we can't offer or accept opinions without driving comparison between springs!

DOES ANYBODY KNOW A PLACE ON THE WEB THAT WOULD MAKE IT POSSIBLE FOR ME TO UPLOAD EXCEL SHEET WITH DATA FOR EVERYBODY TO MANIPULATE ON THEIR OWN? PLEASE LET ME KNOW OR PM ME YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS AND I WILL REPLY FROM MY EMAIL (ISABAN234@YAHOO.COM) WITH A SUBJECT LINE "FIT SPRING COMPARISON SPREADSHEET".

FYI: SF Bay Area FitFreak members (myself included) are gearing up for a meet on 1/26 with a back up date on 2/2 for the sole purpose of evaluating different springs!
We won't track them since most of us will never race our cars anyway, but we are determined to find out how each brand and model stacks against each other in comfort, height and drive-ability on concrete FWY, asphalt, not so perfect street surface and canyons. We will drive each other's cars back to back through the same route and evaluate them in each category on point based system. All cars will be on OEM wheels and tires, shocks,... Only difference will be lack of Progress bar on some cars. Among ourselves we have everything from youngsters with a permit to a retired engineer and everything in between. We will post our ages and preferences based on intended Fit use, so everybody will be able to identify with one of us and find what springs best suits their driving style, use and actual needs.
We do not intend to rub it in on anybody or hurt any body's feelings. We would just like to get to the bottom of the spring choice mystery for ourselves and offer our findings to fellow FitFreak members for whatever it is worth. We are just hoping that our findings will help turn a guessing game into up to a point educated choice.

Ivan

[los_creeper]

awesome freaking thread right here!

myself having purchased the skunks several weeks ago, and as of yet to be installed, was curious how well my choice stacked up against the rest. i decided on skunk2 for the sake of the level of balance in drop between front and rear. all my hondas before have been slammed, so comfort doesn't really bother me. i just don't like my wheels to tuck (anymore) cuz now with my first brand new car i'd prefer to try and keep the closest to stock feel as possible while at the same time greatly reducing body roll as much i can with out sacraficing smoothness. looking at my cars stock height, i felt that a 1"/1.5" front and rear drop is just enough to get the wheel well flush with the wheel cuz of the higher gap in the front due to the extra weight in that end. with the skunks, that's what i get. i also wanted stiffer rates in the rear cuz i notice if you put anything (and i mean anything) in the back, the stock set up sags soo much! so based on the info posted up, i feel extremely satisfied in my choice and can't wait to get em on soon enough! i'm really glad too, that the front rates aren't too stiff nor too soft to compensate again for the more weight up front giving you great balance between comfort and handling. all those factors coupled together along with the price point, imo, put the skunks over the top, at least for me. just my two bits... i'd say that they are the all around best bang for your buck.

[rabbitron]

some other manufacturers that make springs for the fit:

H&R Sport Springs 1.6F/1.3R
Vogtland Sport Springs 1.6F&R
Sprint 1.7F&R

for the Jazz:
Weitec F-Series 1.2F&R
Jamex 1.2F&R

coilovers:
KW 0.9-2.1F/0.2-1.4R

[fit_love]

Originally Posted by kenchan

fitlove- did you take the picts right after the install? cause your ride is
much higher than other stechs apps ive seen on Fits.

the ones with the black border were taken right after. the other ones were taken about a week ago.

[kenchan]

Originally Posted by fit_love

the ones with the black border were taken right after. the other ones were taken about a week ago.

gotcha. yah, the recent picts look about the height im seeing.
thanks for the clarification. springs take atleast a 2-3wks breakin
to get them to their programmed heights.

[kenchan]

Originally Posted by rabbitron

some other manufacturers that make springs for the fit:

H&R Sport Springs 1.6F/1.3R
Vogtland Sport Springs 1.6F&R
Sprint 1.7F&R

for the Jazz:
Weitec F-Series 1.2F&R
Jamex 1.2F&R

coilovers:
KW 0.9-2.1F/0.2-1.4R

do they have spring rates for them?

[kenchan]

Originally Posted by ciburri

Keep in mind that Progress rear sway bar adds to rear end stiffness ratio beside balancing/reducing body roll. That is why Progress springs have drastically smallest front to rear ratio (softest rear springs) and therefore least oversteer gain. I am guessing that bar adds about 50-80 lb/in to the rear end.

explain this phenomenon to me, please. cause from what i see, if
the rear suspension compresses evenly parallel (identically on
both sides) the bar does not twist at all.

no twist, no additional spring rate.

you write awfully a lot using different fonts/etc so making sure
it's accurate.

[rabbitron]

Originally Posted by kenchan

do they have spring rates for them?

i didn't see the info on spring rates published anywhere. i e-mailed vogtland for theirs...awaiting response.

[rabbitron]

Originally Posted by kenchan

explain this phenomenon to me, please. cause from what i see, if
the rear suspension compresses evenly parallel (identically on
both sides) the bar does not twist at all.

no twist, no additional spring rate.

you write awfully a lot using different fonts/etc so making sure
it's accurate.

i don't want to answr for ciburri, but the way i see it, in cornering the rear supsension DOES NOT compress in parallel. so what the bar does is it forces the rear spring that is not experiencing load (inside spring) to help the loaded (outside) spring. does that make sense?

[ciburri]

Originally Posted by rabbitron

i don't want to answr for ciburri, but the way i see it, in cornering the rear supsension DOES NOT compress in parallel. so what the bar does is it forces the rear spring that is not experiencing load (inside spring) to help the loaded (outside) spring. does that make sense?

You are 100% correct rabbitron!
I did not think that further explanation was needed since I was talking about oversteer. Oversteer only comes to play during cornering.
Thank you for bringing it up kenchan. It definitely deserved to be explained in detail. My bad!
Progress is the choice to go with if you are not going to AutoX, Road race or take canyons like devil himself was chasing you. LOL! It will give you greatest cruising comfort with least bouncy ride as long as you are not carrying lot of cargo weight and/or 2-3 rear passengers. In that case pick a brand with higher rear spring ratio.

Here is the spreadsheet sorted by "front to rear stiffness ratio".


I find it easier to start from there for the sake of balance and then compare spring stiffness among manufacturers.
One thing I find amusing is that both Eibach and H&R refused to disclose spring rates considering both Eibach Pro Kit and H&R Sport Kit have identical drop! ROFL! Is it being manufactured in the same facility?!
Email me if you would like me to send you the spreadsheet.

Ivan
p.s. I wonder if picking softest front spring, stiffest rear spring and addition of Progress rear sway bar would make an impact on the drift competition? LOL! Just kidding!

[manxman]

Originally Posted by rabbitron

i don't want to answr for ciburri, but the way i see it, in cornering the rear supsension DOES NOT compress in parallel. so what the bar does is it forces the rear spring that is not experiencing load (inside spring) to help the loaded (outside) spring. does that make sense?

rabbitron-
You are correct, and if ciburri were not so busy, he would confirm my statement and yours.