Honda to sell low-cost hybrid car in 2007/08

[Erebus]

TOKYO (Reuters) - Honda Motor Co. (7267.T: Quote, Profile, Research) plans to sell a hybrid version of its popular Fit subcompact model globally as early as the business year starting in April 2007, the Nihon Keizai business daily reported on Wednesday.



Japan's third-biggest auto maker aims to sell the Fit hybrid for around 1.4 million yen ($11,790), or about 200,000 yen more than the gasoline-only version, likely making it the world's first hybrid to cost less than 2 million yen ($16,840), the newspaper said.

A spokesman denied the auto maker had made any decision, but added that Honda had the technological wherewithal to mount its hybrid system, which twins an electric motor and a conventional engine to save fuel, on most of its vehicles.

Chief Executive Takeo Fukui has long said the price premium for a hybrid over a gasoline-only car needs to fall below 200,000 yen ($1,680) for the powertrain to go mainstream.

With hybrid systems still costing auto makers -- and customers -- thousands of dollars, Fukui has said Honda had not made a strategic decision yet to produce the gasoline-electric vehicles in big volumes, unlike rival Toyota Motor Corp. (7203.T: Quote, Profile, Research) , which has aggressively promoted their proliferation.

A decision to offer a hybrid version of the mass-volume Fit -- Honda's best-selling model in Japan and due to debut in the United States soon -- would suggest the auto maker is a step closer to committing to the powertrain longer-term.

Honda also sells hybrid versions of its two best-selling cars, the Accord and Civic, at a premium of around 300,000 yen ($2,525). Its hybrid-only Insight coupe was the first gasoline-electric car to be sold in the United States.

Honda is developing a smaller motor and battery to reduce the hybrid's cost and weight, the Nihon Keizai said. It will twin the hybrid unit with a one-liter engine for the Fit, the paper added.

Toyota also aims to halve the production and selling cost of a hybrid system. It currently sells many of its hybrid models at a premium of around 500,000 yen ($4,200).

Honda, Toyota and Ford Motor Co. (F.N: Quote, Profile, Research) are so far the world's sole mass-producers of hybrid passenger cars. Laggards like General Motors Corp. (GM.N: Quote, Profile, Research) have argued that hybrid systems are most suitable for large vehicles due to the added weight from the extra components.

Compact cars are also generally fuel-efficient to begin with, and the extra cost of a hybrid car may be more difficult to justify, depending on how much can be saved at the pump.

The newspaper said the Fit hybrid would have fuel economy comparable to that of the Honda Insight and Toyota Prius, which the auto makers advertise in Japan as getting around 35-36 km to a liter (82-84 miles per gallon). ($1=118.78 yen)

[corey415]

Wow. This changes everything. Can you provide a link to this story.

[JDMGD3]

Im sorry but neither the Insight or Prius get anywhere near 80+mpg gas mileage, its a little more then 50 but under 60, the current Civic Hybrid I believe is around the 50mpg mark also. Expect the Fit Hybrid to be as fully loaded as a 1.5 Sport Automatic would be which is around $16k in the US so add another $1700 or so based on that articles figures so expect to pay no less then $18k for a Fit Hybrid. Currently thats about $2500 less then what a Civic Hybrid goes for.

Personally Hybrid technology is great but the amount of money saved by choosing to go with a Hybrid isnt justified in the premium that Hybrids pull and wont actually be justified until almost the very end of the lease/buy term or if the consumer drives at least double the normal national rate which is anywhere from 10-15k/annually.

[Erebus]

Originally Posted by corey415

Wow. This changes everything. Can you provide a link to this story.

http://go.reuters.com/newsArticle.jh...s/businessNews

[Jonniedee]

I have friends with both an insight and the last generation hybrid civic - and all ain't rosey. Something as simple as an oil change requires dropping windage trays off the bottom of the cars to just reach an oil filter. Costing extra $$$.
Add to that the additional initial higher price, and where's all the savings coming from?

[b17gsr]

I hope they bring the diesel motors to North America in the next few years. That motor is getting crazy fuel economy.

[JazzFusion]

Originally Posted by JDMGD3

Im sorry but neither the Insight or Prius get anywhere near 80+mpg gas mileage, its a little more then 50 but under 60, the current Civic Hybrid I believe is around the 50mpg mark also. Expect the Fit Hybrid to be as fully loaded as a 1.5 Sport Automatic would be which is around $16k in the US so add another $1700 or so based on that articles figures so expect to pay no less then $18k for a Fit Hybrid. Currently thats about $2500 less then what a Civic Hybrid goes for.

Personally Hybrid technology is great but the amount of money saved by choosing to go with a Hybrid isnt justified in the premium that Hybrids pull and wont actually be justified until almost the very end of the lease/buy term or if the consumer drives at least double the normal national rate which is anywhere from 10-15k/annually.

"Japan's third-biggest auto maker aims to sell the Fit hybrid for around 1.4 million yen ($11,790), or about 200,000 yen more than the gasoline-only version, likely making it the world's first hybrid to cost less than 2 million yen ($16,840), the newspaper said."

Did you read the article? Where do you get $17,000? Even if you load up a Fit Hybrid that starts at approx. $12,000, it won't come to $17,000. But even if it did, only the ignorant would pay full price rather than negotiating. Don't come back and say that the Fit Hybrid would be in huge demand and drive up the cost, because all the major Japanese and Korean automakers plan on offering lower cost hybrids in the near future. Hyundai will produce an Accent hybrid that will be very reasonably priced.

[b17gsr]

How could a hybrid Fit sell for less than the gas models we will be getting?

Are they planning on offering a stripped down 3 door?

[Jonniedee]

Originally Posted by b17gsr

How could a hybrid Fit sell for less than the gas models we will be getting?

Are they planning on offering a stripped down 3 door?

Exactly - the current entry level NA model is over 13K - and a Hybrid is less?
Show me the REAL numbers....

[MtViewGuy188]

...This story is probably first confirmation that Honda will unveil the second-generation Honda Fit/Jazz in calendar year 2007.

Why? Because it's likely that the new Fit model was designed specifically so it could accommodate the Integrated Motor Assist hybrid drivetrain if necessary.

I can hazard a guess on that the hybrid Fit will be like:

1. It will use the 1.0-liter version of the 1.3-liter I-4 SOHC i-VTEC engine used on the Civic Hybrid. The gasoline engine will be rated at around 80 bhp and the electric motor around 25 bhp.

2. The only transmission choice will be CVT, which allows for battery-only operation in certain low-speed situations.

3. The battery pack uses the new high-power/lightweight Toshiba lithium-ion batteries unveiled last year.

4. The battery pack will be under the back seat, so the Magic Seat back seats might lose the "Tall" mode where the back seat bottoms fold up.

[Dañiel]

When Honda can sell a Hybrid Fit for the same cost as a gas Fit, we will all buy one. Give it a few more years and we will all say, "Wow, remember the days of non-hybrids?"

[corey415]

I really wonder how great the mileage gains will be... I read a test article in popular science (or mechanics) and the greatest mileage gains from hybrids occured on the bigger SUV vehicles, which also happen to be faster than their regular ICE versions.

[postman]

Forget about the corner garage with future cars ..You will be forced to go to the dealer..............That is almost true now....

[BKKJack]

I hope someone out there is an engineer, and can tell me why this won't work/hasn't been tried on an automobile: A small, turbine engine spinning a generator/capacitor that powers electric motors at two or all four wheels.

Pros:
1. The right turbine can run on virtually any sort of fuel.
2. No need for a transmission
3. 100% torque from 0 rpm to "redline"
4. Since turbine doesn't actually directly power wheels, can be mantained at most efficient operating speed for most of the time

Cons:
1. Heat from exhaust
2. ??? (This is why I am asking for help. Don't know that much about this configuration other than it has been powering locomotives for years.)

[fit_ness]

Originally Posted by BKKJack

I hope someone out there is an engineer

2. ??? (This is why I am asking for help. Don't know that much about this configuration other than it has been powering locomotives for years.)

Sorry for the brief diversion.

Ironically, I'm an engineer - a locomotive engineer - in US nomenclature. Train Driver elsewhere.

In the US, turbine-electric locomotives were experimented with in the 1950's and were not very successful due to the rigors of railroading. Only a few prototypes actually made it out in revenue service and they were short lived.

What we use are turbocharged Diesel-Electric locomotives in the 3000 - 4400 HP range. The two-stroke General Motors (EMD) Diesels use a combination geared supercharger which becomes a true turbocharger at the higher power output range when exhaust gas temperature exceeds 1000F degrees. The four-stroke General Electric locomotives use a true turbocharger.

[BKKJack]

Okay, so I was wrong about the turbine part, although it's a key part of my argument, I assume the rest of the drivetrain is as I thought. Could the turbine-electric system work in a car, assuming the rigors of railroading are a little more um, er, rigorous than passenger-caring?

Knowing how unoriginal I am, someone has to have tried it before. I think I'll go surfing...

[Mark264]

Originally Posted by MtViewGuy188

...This story is probably first confirmation that Honda will unveil the second-generation Honda Fit/Jazz in calendar year 2007.

Why? Because it's likely that the new Fit model was designed specifically so it could accommodate the Integrated Motor Assist hybrid drivetrain if necessary.

I can hazard a guess on that the hybrid Fit will be like:

2. The only transmission choice will be CVT, which allows for battery-only operation in certain low-speed situations.

battery-only ops?
this might open the door for a plug-in hybrid mod like CalCars does on the Prius. (added battery pack and signal to car computer showing always fully charged status)
I would love to experiment on one of these when they become available.
80-100 MPG anyone?
This type of mod paired with a solar PV system equipped house would be this generations perfect match.

[MtViewGuy188]

Originally Posted by Mark264

battery-only ops?
this might open the door for a plug-in hybrid mod like CalCars does on the Prius. (added battery pack and signal to car computer showing always fully charged status)

My guess is that because the IMA Fit will use Toshiba's new Li-On fast-charging batteries, it will be a very small battery pack under the back seats. Honda could consider building a IMA Fit with somewhat larger Li-On battery pack that would allow for factory-sanctioned plug-in hybrid operation.

[bestprelude91]

Originally Posted by JDMGD3

Im sorry but neither the Insight or Prius get anywhere near 80+mpg gas mileage, its a little more then 50 but under 60, the current Civic Hybrid I believe is around the 50mpg mark also. Expect the Fit Hybrid to be as fully loaded as a 1.5 Sport Automatic would be which is around $16k in the US so add another $1700 or so based on that articles figures so expect to pay no less then $18k for a Fit Hybrid. Currently thats about $2500 less then what a Civic Hybrid goes for.

Personally Hybrid technology is great but the amount of money saved by choosing to go with a Hybrid isnt justified in the premium that Hybrids pull and wont actually be justified until almost the very end of the lease/buy term or if the consumer drives at least double the normal national rate which is anywhere from 10-15k/annually.

I agree. Not to mention the cost of disposing and replacing the battery upon reaching 100k miles. I also found an article before that clean energy-clean environment they preach does not substantiate when they discard the battery.

[Boba Fitt]

Methinks this story may be outdated; it talks about 2K7, and the Fit Hybrid has been bouncing in and out of the news for years.