General Fit TalkGeneral Discussion on the Honda Fit/Jazz.
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Is it really bad? I heard it was, but i also heard it wasn't. My dad's old mitsu truck if i go downhill on 2nd or 1st gear, it overrevs cuz the engine is weak (120hp maybe?). Some ppl here said in some thread that engine braking was a bad advice advocated by car and driver. So after realizing this, i decided braking w/ engine is bad.
but on page 149 of the manual, one of the advice was engine braking.
Quote:
When slowing down, you can get exttra braking from the engine by shifting to a lower gear. This extra braking can help you maintain a safe speed and prevent your brakes from overheating while going down a steep hill. Before downshifting, make sure the engine speed will not go into the tachometer's red zone in the lower gear
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I've used engine braking for the most part instead of the brakes on my Miata for 115,000 miles. No problems with engine, transmission, or clutch, and first needed new front brake pads at 90,000 mi. Go for it.
Downshifting while braking is not bad. In fact, when done correctly, it puts you in the proper gear for quickly exiting that corner for which you are braking. In everyday stop and go traffic, though, it probably isn't necessary.
The whole essence of driving a stick is smoothness. Notice pros when they down shift will blip the throttle (called heel & toe) to rev match the engine to the lower gear as they let the clutch out to engage the lower gear.
Engine braking is an integral part of driving a stick. It's done in a great variety of situations and probably no two drivers do it the same in every situation. That's the beauty of a stick, it lets you put your individual stamp on the driving experience.
I find that correct downshifting will allow you to feather in the clutch now and then in a gentle (engine with closed throttle) manner not possible when accelerating and that this will help keep the clutch surfaces smooth and "in tone".
I also feel a stick actually promotes safer driving because it forces you to keep your mind in the game, your situational awareness is higher as you plot your driving strategy.
Finally, proper downshifting is cheaper than putting unneeded stress on the cars braking. Rotors and pads will last a long time and I doubt you'll wear a clutch out even after 150,000 miles.
It's all relative my son... You REV MATCH and engage the clutch smoothly not to create sudden whiplash. This is done at the correct speed and it should not be long and drawn out. Tapping the brakes to reduce speed simultaneously and in-conjunction to slowing down is another tool.
It is a learned intuitiveness oldschool MT drivers and experts do.
It is this newer rice generation that gets off once they install the coffeecan muffler and blowoff valves that don't know any better.
Like anything else, you just have to do it correctly.
Don't go jamming that lever into gear when the revs are still increasing when you're "blipping", you want to catch that needle on it's way back down and keep those connecting rods right where they're at.
Well-executed rev matching causes essentially no wear, and is preferable to riding the brakes or, for that matter, any other solution. But as is the case with most things, if you do it improperly, you will do more harm than good.
Rev-matched downshifts should be imperceptible by any means other than sound. You should hear the throttle note rise, obviously, but if you feel even the slightest jerk or pull, you're not being as smooth as you could/should be.
I don't recall ever engine braking in a car. Maybe I live in the wrong area for it. We're pretty flat around here even if this is called the "Hill Country".
So you basically downshift down a hill while the revs are dropping due to the increased natural momentum of the car and let the engine slow itself down on its own?
Cool. I might try that going home to my parents this weekend. They live at the bottom of a large hill.
When I pull up to a stop light, I do drop gears as I near it. Let's me cleanly accelerate if the light turns green as I'm dropping speed.
So you basically downshift down a hill while the revs are dropping due to the increased natural momentum of the car and let the engine slow itself down on its own?
Sort of.
The idea is that as your speed decreases, your revs also decrease, but to downshift into the next-lowest-gear (I like to go down sequentially instead of like a 4-->2 downshift), you'll have to "blip" the throttle to match the speed of the lower gear. The trick when rev matching is to actually slide the shifter into gear as the tach needle is on its way down rather than its way up, as the latter can cause engine damage.
So presently, when you downshift at lights, are you not rev-matching at all? Do you have to force the shifter into gear or does it slide in easily?
Generally, you know you're doing okay if you don't have to force anything. You should never have to "slam" the shifter into gear in any daily driving situation, it should almost pull itself into gear smoothly and easily.
Nope. It shifts very smoothly as I slow down. And I know never ever to shift into first until I'm at a full stop.
When I am increasing speed and going up through the gears, I find third gear to be a little more resistant than the rest. Perhaps I'm shifting too soon? I'm used to shifting by engine noise moreso than by speed, which is how my dad taught me to drive (and later came in handy at night when the dash LEDs went out on the '78 Fiesta I was driving). I never put the car faster than 5k RPM though. Gotta break her in.
Nope. It shifts very smoothly as I slow down. And I know never ever to shift into first until I'm at a full stop.
When I am increasing speed and going up through the gears, I find third gear to be a little more resistant than the rest. Perhaps I'm shifting too soon? I'm used to shifting by engine noise moreso than by speed, which is how my dad taught me to drive (and later came in handy at night when the dash LEDs went out on the '78 Fiesta I was driving). I never put the car faster than 5k RPM though. Gotta break her in.
That's nice that the car downshifts so smoothly without rev-matching. I remember in my WRX I had to rev-match every time (Subie's 5MT SUCKS), even to go from 3-->2 at like 15-20mph.
Anyway, for some reason, on a lot of Nissans, 3rd is somewhat more cantankerous than the other gears, didn't know that carried over to anything else.
As for first gear, you've got the right idea, at least in daily driving. I'll dip into it while moving in auto-x, but it's definitely not something you want to be doing every day unless you can just be super buttery-smooth about it.
Third for some reason requires a little finding.And there's a feel of putting it into that gear as opposed to just sliding it in. Maybe I got a cranky tranny.
It's been 8 years since I last drove a stick. And on evaluation of how I drove with that car, I was clutch happy. Generally, when my foot wasn't on the accelerator, it was on the clutch. Amazingly I didn't wear out the clutch. I'd love to find a good book on all the basics of driving a manual transmission to tweak the way I drive one. I'd prefer to put as little wear & tear on the engine due to poor driving as possible.
In general when engine breaking I'll shift from 5th to 4th and 4th to 3rd but that is about it. 1st and 2nd are a bit to short to even bother on my RSX
I don't reccomend this (I play around sometimes), but if you match the revs perfectly and are very gently yet quick with the gear shifter you don't even need to use the clutch. This illustrates how rev matching works and again I don't reccmend trying this on a new car.
BTW I don't abuse my car. It has 206,000 miles on the original clutch and the tranny is in great shape.
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