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General Fit Talk
General Discussion on the Honda Fit/Jazz.

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  #1  
Old 05-02-2011, 10:32 PM
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My 1990 Civic Wagon > My New Fit - WTF?

So I'm trying my best to really embrace my 2011 Fit Sport. I really want to love it, but the fact is every time I drive my 21 year old Civic wagon (with its B18B1 swap) it makes me realize how utterly gutless my Fit is.

I didn't expect the Fit to be "fast" or even "quick" but it's pretty disheartening to have the Fit downshift itself two whole gears when at less than 25% throttle trying to make it up slight uphills on my way to/from work.

"...but the Fit gets awesome gas mileage!!!"

Not for me it hasn't, at least, no better than a 1995 model engine in a 1990 chassis. I must say I've probably got the cleanest burning B18B in history (literally blows ZEROES on non NoPPM emissions gases) so it gets good fuel mileage to begin with, but damn why can't a 117hp turd 1.5L get better mpg than a 140hp 1.8L?!?!

Right now I can only cling to two things that my Fit does well:

- Steering response and handling is great, even stock
- Has advanced safety systems

Other than that my little old 21 year old Civic wagon murders the Fit in daily drive-ability. It's nice being able to lug the 1.8L up the same hills in 5th gear that the Fit struggles with, and if need be I can grab a gear or two down in the wagon and REALLY have some passing power.

It's a sad feeling to sort of feel "obligated" to drive the Fit so that my wife doesn't wonder why we are paying for a brand new car that is less fun to drive than a 21 year old Civic.

Oh and just for giggles a few pics of both cars being mentioned/compared:

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Lastly:

I know I'm comparing a modified car (the old Civic wagon) to a 100% bone stock car, but if the Fit is going to be painfully slow I'd at least expect it to have big gas mileage advantage - it does NOT. I guess my twisty back road, stop and go driving to and from work just doesn't suit the Fit's fuel mileage potential?

I still like the Fit...I still say I LOVE the Fit, but I think I'm still smitten more by my old Civic wagon.

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  #2  
Old 05-02-2011, 10:50 PM
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Thats a clean wagon. The problem with the Fit is that its a little underpowered. The Fit is capable of great mpg and trying different gasolines can help in acceleration and mpg. I had a 08 Fit sport manual and always used premium and never had a problem with power or mpg. The other problem is the Drive by wire throttle which doesn't allow the throttle plate to open fast or all the way and if you let off the pedal a little at cruise the mpg really goes up with out deceleration. Georgia has many hills and mountains so the 140 HP wagons has more power to climb but the Fit should not have a problem either. I took my 115 HP Civic down to Ga. and had no problems and averaged 39 mpg in a fully loaded car with partial use of the AC.
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Old 05-02-2011, 11:24 PM
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X2 on the wagon being super clean. I have noticed that with running premium, a c/a intake, and staying in mid-range power ive never had issues with my fit. I live in central GA so i understand the hill thing but i cant say ive have big mpg issues because of them. are the GE's alil heavier than the GD's??
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  #4  
Old 05-03-2011, 12:15 PM
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Mod the Fit and you will love it as much as you do your Civic. After all why did you mod the Civic in the first place? Was it because you found certain aspects of its performance lacking? Judging by the fact that you went to the trouble to swap a different engine into it I would think the answer is yes. Is the Civic a manual trans? No fair comparing an auto to a manual, modded or not. Give the Fit a chance to win you over over time and spend a little time making it your own. Based on all the time and energy you have lavished on your Civic, if you give the Fit an equal measure of attention you will have a car that anyone could love.
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  #5  
Old 05-03-2011, 01:47 PM
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the wagon looks so clean. A lot better than the fit.
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Old 05-11-2011, 01:45 PM
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In my pinion, honda messed up but putting the 1.5L in the fit. The lack of power and the somewhat short then tall gears(1st and 2nd are fine but when my AT goes into 3rd, 50% of the time it has to downshift to keep accelerating), cause unnecessary downshifting. A 1.8 with a bit more low end power wouldn't struggle so much in turn get better MPG, which the new civics are kind of showing.
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  #7  
Old 05-11-2011, 07:25 PM
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I bought a 1989 Honda Civic Wagon A/T brand new for the ex-wife. Kept it for 10 yrs/150K miles but that car was the biggest dog around. I hated that tranny, so rough and jerky and coupled with the 90hp stock engine was not a fun ride on anything other than flat roads. Compare that car with a Fit A/T and the Fit will blow it away it every category.

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  #8  
Old 05-11-2011, 09:18 PM
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I sold my GD because I was tired of the lack of power. IMO modding your Fit will just delay your feelings. If you feel obligated to drive, that is reason enough to move on.
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  #9  
Old 05-12-2011, 10:07 AM
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NICE WAGON!!! Where are you in GA? Yeah, comparing a car with a 20% HP increase is a little apples/oranges. I'm guessing the curb weights are close too.

What kind of mileage are you getting with each car? I have to work to get 32-33 from my 91 integra, but the Fit is getting ~35 with 'normal' driving, and is barely broken in. 5th gear is a dog in the Fit, but there's a hill in my neighborhood where, in the Integra, I have to wind it out in 2nd, but the Fit grunts through it in 3rd.
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Old 05-12-2011, 05:44 PM
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I was guessing that the wagon weighs several hundred pounds less that the Fit.
More power-less weight. Hmmm…

That is the biggest problem with todays "small" cars.
We, (not me), keep demanding more and more luxury and safety, (and size fer cry’in out loud) and then expect the same MPG’s as the more basic, truly small, cars of yore.

BMW is working on mainstreaming CF unibodies and frames. They understand that the automotive industry has done all it can do as far as aerodynamics and powerplant efficiency. Weight is the only thing that keeps getting more inefficient in modern cars.

My last small car was a VW Rabbit GTI convertible. It was almost as fast and fuel efficient as my Fit. It was also much smaller, inside and outside, and much lighter.
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  #11  
Old 05-12-2011, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FitAK View Post
I was guessing that the wagon weighs several hundred pounds less that the Fit.
More power-less weight. Hmmm…

That is the biggest problem with todays "small" cars.
We, (not me), keep demanding more and more luxury and safety, (and size fer cry’in out loud) and then expect the same MPG’s as the more basic, truly small, cars of yore.
I couldn't agree more. Take one of Honda's most popular fuel efficient cars as an example. 1989 CRX HF, yes this car really did get 50 mpg and was fun to drive. But it weighed only 1,834 lbs, 62hp engine, no A/C, no power windows, locks or mirrors and only a two seater w/ limited cargo space. Compare the ride comfort, quality and safety of that car to a new Fit at 2,489 lbs, 117hp. Absolutely no comparison between the two. The Fit is 14" longer, 10" taller and gets a respectable 35 mpg for a car 35% heavier, 100% safer, double the hp and double the cargo capacity.

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Old 05-12-2011, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
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I couldn't agree more. Take one of Honda's most popular fuel efficient cars as an example. 1989 CRX HF, yes this car really did get 50 mpg and was fun to drive. But it weighed only 1,834 lbs, 62hp engine, no A/C, no power windows, locks or mirrors and only a two seater w/ limited cargo space. Compare the ride comfort, quality and safety of that car to a new Fit at 2,489 lbs, 117hp. Absolutely no comparison between the two. The Fit is 14" longer, 10" taller and gets a respectable 35 mpg for a car 35% heavier, 100% safer, double the hp and double the cargo capacity.

_
At least Honda kept the tradition alive by keeping the car as lightweight as they could while still meeting BS safety requirements and creature comforts. I was amazed when I looked up the curb weight.

I love the fact that the rear brakes are drums. I'm a big 1st gen. CRX/3g Civic guy, and it always makes me laugh when guys do an integra rear disk swap. Adding a bunch of weight and another mode of failure with no measurable gain in braking performance.

Sucks that the days of 'stripper' models are long gone. EVERYTHING was lighter in the HF. I use HF rear drums on 1g's as they're lighter than the Si's. The axles, bumpers, hatch, etc., etc., all lighter. The 84's even had plastic valve covers.

Oh, and the 2nd gen FWD wagon was 2330lbs. 4wd was 2621.

PPS: Thank your imperial federal government for all the BS restrictions on diesel. I'm guessing a 1.3L turbo diesel version of the fit would offer similar performance while knocking on the door of 50mpg.
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Last edited by poopshovel; 05-12-2011 at 06:48 PM..
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  #13  
Old 05-12-2011, 07:23 PM
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I think there's a perception that Americans won't put up with the slow acceleration of the old "economy" cars. Indeed, Honda doesn't offer anything other than the 1.5 VTEC for the US-spec Fit, even though there are 1.2 motors available elsewhere. Furthermore, the advent of computer-controlled EFI systems has warped our perceptions about performance.

Thirty years ago, a 0-60 time of about 10 seconds would be typical of an entry-level high performance car. These days, a bone-stock US 5MT Fit can easily outdo that, with much better fuel economy.
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Old 05-12-2011, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by TheOrangeRevolution View Post
In my pinion, honda messed up but putting the 1.5L in the fit. The lack of power and the somewhat short then tall gears(1st and 2nd are fine but when my AT goes into 3rd, 50% of the time it has to downshift to keep accelerating), cause unnecessary downshifting. A 1.8 with a bit more low end power wouldn't struggle so much in turn get better MPG, which the new civics are kind of showing.
BINGO!

My previous car, an 07' Mini Cooper S had a 1.6L w/turbo and D.I. and got about the same mileage as my Fit but had about 60 more hp and waaaaaaaaaay more torque I've always said I wish the Fit had a small hairdryer putting down about 150 hp/150 ft/lbs of torque.

I have to say that I'm relatively new to the whole SCC scene (got a Contour SVT back in 2000) and honestly, I NEVER noticed those wagons for anything that reliable transportation, amazing what an engine upgrade, some springs and awesome tires/wheels can do!
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Old 05-14-2011, 04:49 PM
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To the OP:

So you're complaining that your new Fit is a gutless wonder. As I recall, you bought a 5AT Sport -- let me guess the older wagon has a MT, right?

No wonder you're feeling the difference: the AT puts a real dent in the Fit's giddyap. Car and Driver magazine has tested both AT and MT Fit Sports; there's a substantial difference in acceleration between the two:

5MT: 8.3 sec 0-60; 1/4 mi in 16.5 @ 83mph
5AT: 9.9 sec 0-60; 1/4 mi in 17.6 @ 79mph

Methinks, if you'd bought a 5MT, you wouldn't be complaining nearly as much.

I drive a 5MT base 2009 GE8; while it's not the fastest car on the road it still feels decidedly frisky with the throttle floored. Now that it's broken in (a little over 15,000 miles) it's real easy to get a good healthy chirp out of the front wheels on a max-acceleration 1-2 shift, almost feels like it wants to do the same on the 2-3 shift, and it surprises drivers of other vehicles who think they should be a lot faster than "that little car"!
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Old 05-14-2011, 05:46 PM
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My 2¢ on MT vs. AT

Others have said it in this thread, but I really enjoy driving manual tranny. The smaller the engine, the more you'll benefit from manual. 1.5 liters is pretty darn small. I shopped for a Fit, and drove '07, '08 and '09 MT Fit Sports. Then I drove an '09 AT and immediately dismissed any thoughts of AT. It was dissapointing, passing gear at highway speeds made more noise than mph. What a difference in performance.

I'm surprised automatic Fits are so much more popular. Maybe the drivers weren't lucky enough to learn how to drive stick. You pays your money and you takes your choice... More fun to drive and better gas mileage makes for a good deal IMHO. I'm getting 42+ mpg at 60mph on trips and 38 around town. Our speed limit in NY is 55 except on Interstates where it's 65.
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Old 05-15-2011, 10:01 PM
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I recently looked at buying a 90 Wagon that ended up being being a lemon in the daylight, but after driving it and messing around in it I realized something. It has just as much room as my Fit, is as comfy and gets the same gas mileage. A D16Z6 swapped wagon would own my Fit in everything except safety.
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Old 05-15-2011, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edison Carasio View Post
I recently looked at buying a 90 Wagon that ended up being being a lemon in the daylight, but after driving it and messing around in it I realized something. It has just as much room as my Fit, is as comfy and gets the same gas mileage. A D16Z6 swapped wagon would own my Fit in everything except safety.
Sorry no contest, the Fit wins every category you mentioned and all others except purchase cost. I owned an '89 Civic wagon for over 10 years.
"It has just as much room as my Fit"...not
"is as comfy"...not
"gets the same gas mileage"...not

plus you'll be replacing CV axles every other year.

_
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Old 05-16-2011, 12:37 AM
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Get a manual fit for performance. It's the fastest in it's class (with the fiesta maybe), I don't see how we can complain. I drive a lot around town with a few different cars (my own civic 99, toyota yaris from work, and my mom's fit, all m/t) and the fit is by far the best and most fun, the engine in 1st and 2nd gear revs up so well with the vtec and close ratio gearbox, and you get to 50-60 quick enough. In the yaris or the civic, the longer gears make the cars less fun to rev up, and you get less oomph at lower speeds than the fit, you can't pass stop signs in 2nd gear so easily, the shifter is a pleasure to use. Before the fit my mother had a focus 2.0 130hp, same 0-60mph as the fit I think, at first we both though that the fit was a bit slow, but it's just a matter of how you drive it, it's not the same as that big 2 liter engine.

I have a civic wagon 4wd 87 (the carbed model before the 88+ civic) and it's the slowest thing on earth, 0-60 in about 16 seconds (maybe 13-14 when new), so the fit feels quick compared to this. However, the wagon is roomier and more comfortable than the fit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FitAK View Post
I was guessing that the wagon weighs several hundred pounds less that the Fit.
More power-less weight. Hmmm…

That is the biggest problem with todays "small" cars.
We, (not me), keep demanding more and more luxury and safety, (and size fer cry’in out loud) and then expect the same MPG’s as the more basic, truly small, cars of yore.

BMW is working on mainstreaming CF unibodies and frames. They understand that the automotive industry has done all it can do as far as aerodynamics and powerplant efficiency. Weight is the only thing that keeps getting more inefficient in modern cars.

My last small car was a VW Rabbit GTI convertible. It was almost as fast and fuel efficient as my Fit. It was also much smaller, inside and outside, and much lighter.
The 4g wagon was quite heavy actually, especially in it's 4wd version (as much a 1st gen 4wd fit). And a civic hatchback EK wasn't much lighter than a fit either (but the civic had better fit and finish for sure).
And there is still big improvment for aerodynamic on most cars. And it's not only about cx coefficient, but also the frontal surface. Making cars always wider and higher doesn't help, since the surface counts too.

Honda proved with the insight mk1 that we could still have light and basic cars in 21th century, it's been only 5 years since the insight mk1 production stopped, so other than stability control and a few airbags, it's not far from our modern safety standards. And I don't think that the little electric motor had much to do with the good mpg, especially on the highway.

Last edited by broody; 05-16-2011 at 01:00 AM..
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Old 05-17-2011, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverbulletCSVT View Post
Sorry no contest, the Fit wins every category you mentioned and all others except purchase cost. I owned an '89 Civic wagon for over 10 years.
"It has just as much room as my Fit"...not
"is as comfy"...not
"gets the same gas mileage"...not

plus you'll be replacing CV axles every other year.

_
I'll rebutt with my personal opinions based on currently owning a 2011 Fit and a 1990 Civic wagon.

Roominess?

Wagon wins in driver's leg room - Fit's seat won't go back as far. everything else? Do online searching and I cannot find any catagory where the Fit wins hands down. Only place the Fit rules is when the rear seat bottoms are flipped up for "tall mode" cargo, which I've not had to utilize...yet.

Comfort?

Fit front seats are love em or hate em. Do I need to link the numerous posts/topics complaining about how rock hard and uncomfy Fit seats can be? I personally like my Fit's seats, but my stock wagon seats are way more comfy, and have enough lateral support to hold me in place during hard cornering.

Gas mileage?

I'm rivalling my Fit's mpg with a 140hp DOHC 1.8L engine paired with a closer-than-Fit's-gearing Integra tranny. Stock wagons can easily match the Fit's mpg.

"Replacing axles in the wagon..."

I'm sorry I don't follow you there. Even my modded B-swapped, lowered wagon hasn't needed an axle in the 3 years I've been beating the hell out of it. I've owned two other EF hatches - same drivetrain as wagons - and after replacing the inital axles with GOOD new axles I never had any issues with them. What are you talking about?

For anyone telling me "should have gotten a 5-speed" because "it's faster than the auto" I knew that going into buying the AT Fit. No offense guys, but the fit is a TURD even with a 5-speed. I knew its limitations going into it. If I want to haul ass I'll hop in my wagon. If I want to haul more ass I'll hop in my stripped 1992 Civic w/B18C5 swap.

I drove my wagon again today and it still blows me away how amazingly well that little 21 year old car drives with such simple, reliable mods.

The Fit has it's place in the hierarchy of cars at my house...#1 if my son is along for the ride. #3 if I'm driving alone...hehe...

Last edited by B18C5-EH2; 05-17-2011 at 09:13 PM..
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