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Thanks a bunch for the suspension thread! I will read through it carefully! Any help at picking the right parts is appreciated since there's so little still available for the GD's.
There is zero track intention for this build. I've been on the track a few times (never in the Fit), but it doesn't fit in my current middle aged guy with house, wife, and young child life. Much like the sport bike in my basement, the track is on hold for now. Heck, I'm even probably going to sell my fastest toy (532rwhp, 3100lbs) because it doesn't make much sense with us living in the mountains. It made more sense in South FL.
The brake "upgrade" is 90% cosmetic. Which is why I'd go Wilwood BBK for the $60 increase over just calipers. The rear disc conversion is a double reason...1. I can't stand working on drum brakes and 2. I can't stand looking at drum brakes. Realistically, once you go beyond pads, fluid, lines, and decent rotors, any brake upgrade is 90%+ just eye candy. But, I like candy I'm betting your setup makes more track sense due to the lower reciprocating mass of the smaller rotors.
Good point on the brake grease. I run Permatex synthetic caliper/brake grease on everything and I don't get noise. I bet my friend with the Wilwoods was not. His car also threw some spectacular fireworks at night when slowing from 100+. Put on a good show. LOL
idrivemyself, what's the end result of where you are at now? What parts are a no-brainer and which ones are questionable?
I'm thinking the full Moog catalog and rear beam bushings are the most important?
I missed the boat on the beatrush undertray. Wanted one, but like so many other cool things, I didn't think they'd go away. My main experience is with domestics where the parts catalogs go on for decades instead of months.
The end result? As in, how are things now after a few thousand miles? Thus far I think that every bushing replacement has been needed. I would prioritize replacing the control arm rear bushings and the torsion beam bushings over the control arm front bushings, but there's no real reason to skip it as easy and relatively inexpensive as the front bushing replacement is. The Tanabe subframe brace was the one thing I would have skipped outright. A set of subframe collars would have a more profound impact, and they're on my list. The Beatrush undertray is also a questionable part that I've bought/installed. Only reason being though, I debated making one myself for a while but succumb to the convenience of having it in stock at a local dealer. I estimated the cost to be ~$50 and whatever time it took. It increases the labor for an oil change, but I think that's peanuts considering it has taken a beating without hassle and I'm happy for that.
The Moog catalog is deceiving, btw. Many bushings on the market are designed for the the JDM and ROW (Rest Of World) GD models. Our USDM GD's have unique bushing sizes which makes for a massive headache (you'll see this in my thread). I'd recommend going the same route that I have and buying the SuperPro polyurethane bushings and solid beam bushings. You'll need access to a lathe, or pay a machinist, to size the control arm rear bushings, but you shouldn't need to replace them ever again.
I saw on another thread that you're also looking to do the CDV delete. I ran into the same problem for adapter availability and overcame it in posts #61 and #69. Check it out: https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/1st-...ml#post1372076
Last edited by idrivemyself; 10-28-2017 at 11:59 AM.
Tagging for interest... This damn website keeps auto-scrolling down as I try to read this thread so I'll have to look at it with my phone or laptop.. -.-
You *could* use the DPHA's with the Mini rotors via an adapter, but why? In all reality, what are you hoping to gain with the slight diameter up-size (regardless of caliper choice)? If it's the look, sure, the discussion ends here. But if it's performance there are more questions to ask and things to consider. Are you looking for better initial bite and emergency stop performance, are you wanting better longevity, are you only going to be doing spirited driving, are there track aspirations/goals (auto-x? fast circuit?), is there a cost difference and pad compound availability difference between options, is a increase/decrease in un-sprung weight a concern? Lots to consider. Given the Fit's relatively low weight and weight bias, 99% of us will most likely stand to gain more bang/buck with better tires, better dampers, and a pad/fluid change. The 10.3" front rotor diameter won't become a factor until you're going fast around Road Atlanta, and even then there are options to be exhausted (chyro'd & slotted rotors, brake cooling ducts, brake bias, weight reduction, etc).
This is exactly what I was going to bring up but you beat me to it!
There may be other options for a "cheap and effective" option to fit bigger rotors on the Fit. CR-Z folks (excluding 2016s, which have a 11 inch front rotors from the the factory) have been using S2K and RSX-S brake caliper brackets, mounting said brackets on the opposite sides (driver caliper has pass. bracket and vice versa), and running TSX pads if I recall correctly.
I would like to experiment with the bracket swap on the GD since Fits and CR-Zs usually share the same or similar front calipers... again, with the exception of the 2016 CR-Z.
Another thing to consider... is the amount of brake fluid needed to get those pistons in the calipers to move. From personal experience, after doing my EP3 rear disc conversion I had noticed that my brake pedal was a smidgen softer than it was with the drums. Even after multiple bleeds and using Speedbleeder valves to ensure no air gets back into the system, the pedal feel wasn't as stiff as it was with stock front calipers and drums.
With that said... some forum members who have experimented with the DC2 ITR caliper swap as well as the NA1 (I believe) NSX caliper have reported that they were experiencing softer brake pedals. This came down to piston size and the amount of fluid needed to get those pistons to move in the caliper.
ITR calipers use have a noticeably larger piston than that of the GD's and requires more fluid to move it due to that. The NA1 NSX caliper (while being dual piston) features smaller pistons and requires less fluid to get them to move. Its been reported that the NA1 caliper would be the a better match in terms of brake fluid volume in comparison to the factory Fit caliper.
As for the bushings, take a look at my Sloppy Seconds build thread on here. I've replaced/upgraded everything on my GD and have taken a bit of the headache out of it all. Parts sourcing was the most difficult thing (lmk if you have any questions). And if you liked the feel of adding the RSB, just wait until after new beam bushings are in.
Hmmm. Are you aware of any attempts to fit a larger master cylinder? I can see where you're coming from. Seems the simplest solution would be to fit a larger master cylinder. I had to do that on a motorcycle I once owned to go along with a brake upgrade and it greatly improved feel.
I would think the problems you are outlining would also apply to any aftermarket caliper options as they would also likely have larger pistons to move? That would include Wilwood, Fastbrakes, T1R, Spoon or anyone else that made BBK's for the GD at one time or another.
Hmmm. Are you aware of any attempts to fit a larger master cylinder? I can see where you're coming from. Seems the simplest solution would be to fit a larger master cylinder. I had to do that on a motorcycle I once owned to go along with a brake upgrade and it greatly improved feel.
I would think the problems you are outlining would also apply to any aftermarket caliper options as they would also likely have larger pistons to move? That would include Wilwood, Fastbrakes, T1R, Spoon or anyone else that made BBK's for the GD at one time or another.
If memory serves me right, I believe the GD's stock 3/4" master cylinder gets replaced with one from the '98 to '02 Accord LX with a 15/16" master cylinder or V6 non-VSA with 1" master cylinder can work. You will need to have the ends of the factory brake lines change from bubble to a double flare to work BUT you can retain the GD brake fluid tank.
I'm curious about attempting this myself... Its just a matter of time and funds at this point.
And yes, that seems to be the general trend from what I'm seeing among the group. Go rear disc and stock front caliper, you'll see a softer pedal feel overall. Keep drums and change front calipers, again... softer pedal BUT varies with caliper choice (DC2, NA1, Wilwood DPHA, etc).
I'm a bit tempted to take the calipers off my 2016 CR-Z and try them on my Fit since they do work with 11 inch rotors... I'm just not looking forward to bleeding two brake systems... Especially the CR-Z's. Maybe putting the HPD big brake kit on will justify it.
While listening to the motor I noticed that it has quite a bit of top end noise. Thinking it's either valves or a spark plug has come loose again. #3 is always the one that backs out.
Have upper/lower radiator hoses, drive belt, tensioner and new plugs (IK24's) on the way. Will do the valve adjustment and replace plugs, hoses, belt, and tensioner later next week.
Also ordered an Accord brake master cylinder (thanks Hootie) to compare with my GD master. Have a new GD master still in the box so it will be easy to look them over.
Doing what I can before taking the car entirely out of commission for the differential, clutch, turbo install. Might even tackle the brakes first.
Ordered the brake lines from Brian at FastBrakes. Great guy! Looking forward to hearing from him how his Hasport experience goes. If there's a way to actually have a properly sorted car, may end up K swapping in the future.
Been also researching rods, pistons, arp studs, etc for the L15 in case I stick with the L15 instead. My horsepower goals are increasing as I delve deeper into this build. I've done this many times before. Need to not let this one spin out of control. LOL
Got the Accord master cylinder. Is the exact same body as the Fit MC. Even has the same part number cast into the body. Difference appears to only by the size of the orifice drilled into the body and corresponding piston. Fluid reservoir is different as well.
Here's the two side by side...
Here's the Frankenstein mix of the two that I'll try...
While listening to the motor I noticed that it has quite a bit of top end noise. Thinking it's either valves or a spark plug has come loose again. #3 is always the one that backs out.
I noticed overly noisy valves as well, being new to a Fit, wasn't sure if it is to be expected. Added some Marvel Mystery Oil on my last fill up and definitely quieted the chatter. For me, it was especially noticeable on cold starts, and would get less and would subside as the engine warmed. Not planning on running this additive forever, bottle on the next few fill ups wont hurt the engine or my wallet.
Have you adjusted the valves? No amount of additive will fix valves that are out of adjustment. Our motor sounds great again after each 50k valve adjustment.
The L15 has zero self adjusting for the valvetrain, so physical adjustment is required. Dealers and most owners are oblivious to the importance.
Have you adjusted the valves? No amount of additive will fix valves that are out of adjustment. Our motor sounds great again after each 50k valve adjustment.
The L15 has zero self adjusting for the valvetrain, so physical adjustment is required. Dealers and most owners are oblivious to the importance.
Thank you! I've had this car for about a month now, still green to its quirks. The previous owner informed me he adjusted the valves, about 5k ago, receipt for valve cover gasket was in the glovebox. It sounds identical to the cold start rattle of Mazda FS-DE, so assumed it was normal. Don't wanna hijack your build thread, I'll PM you when I check it out.
They actually do have a sewing machine clatter when properly adjusted, when they get quiet that means they are getting tight. The half vtec system induces some noise at idle which is hard to explain but easy to understand if you see the valve train...
Good point! It should sound like a quiet symphony of valve train, injectors, exhaust pulses, etc. It's when one player in the symphony starts to play out of time or too loudly that you have a problem.
I'm expecting to find a loose plug with ours, but we'll see.
Got the Accord master cylinder. Is the exact same body as the Fit MC. Even has the same part number cast into the body. Difference appears to only by the size of the orifice drilled into the body and corresponding piston. Fluid reservoir is different as well.
Here's the two side by side...
Here's the Frankenstein mix of the two that I'll try...
Nice! Been looking since forever for a master cylinder upgrade for the GD. Is the accord master cylinder 15/16" or 1"?
More updates on this please. Might probably do this in the near future to my fit aria gd8 with jdm odyssey 11" front brakes. (gd3 sedan)
Thanks [Hootie] !
Sorry, but I don't have more news yet. Been scouring the Internet for a female bubble flare to inverted male adapter, but it doesn't seem that one exists.
As mentioned above, I'm probably going to have to cut the factory lines and re-flare them with an inverted flare fitting.
I'm also waiting to hear back from Fast Brakes regarding an adapter for using the factory parking brake cables with RSX calipers. The parts that come from the Integra rear calipers to make it work with other brake cables are no longer available from Honda. I'm hoping to go with the RSX calipers instead of Teg calipers since they are much beefier and allow a larger rotor.
Once I hear about the RSX caliper parking brake cable adapter, I'll start back in on the project.
10-27-2017, 11:06 AM
I'm betting your setup makes more track sense due to the lower reciprocating mass of the smaller rotors.
