Interesting Note on Horsepower
 

I'm an avid reader of autoblog, and today they were doing an initial review of the Hyundai Sonata turbo. One of the notes they mentioned was that the Sonata has a class-leading 12 lb/hp ratio, .1 lb/hp lower than the new Ford Mustang (wtf?). Interested, I do the calculations and notice a surprisingly large difference between our cars and others.

Hyundai Sonata: 3350 lb / 274 hp = 12 lb/hp
Honda Civic: 2750 lb / 140 hp = 19.6 lb/hp
VW Golf: 3000 lb / 170 hp = 17.6 lb/hp
Kia Forte: 2740 lb / 156 hp = 17.5 lb/hp
Honda Fit: 2600 lb / 117 hp = 22 lb/hp!!!!

I don't know about you guys, but when I was cross-shopping the fit to other vehicles (Civic, Kia Forte, VW golf), I was really worried about the lack of hp from the Fit, but seeing this, it really puts it into perspective.

Thats a whole lot of weight to move

some more for reference... of course I bought mine for mpg to space ratio :)

Acura TSX=205 / $29000 / 15.7 / 455
Acura TL=286 / $39000 / 12.6 / 491

Audi TT=255 / $40000 / 10.9 / 436
Audi A3=250 / $34000 / 12.9 / 438
Audi RS4=420 / $66000 / 8.6 / 567

BMW 3 Series=300 / $41000 / 10.9 / 446
BMW Z4=330 / $51800 / 9.1 / 464

Bugati Veyron 16.4 =987 / $1,200,000 / 4.2 / 5040

Buick LaCrosse=240 / $29000 / 14.5 / 476
Buick Lucerbe=275 / $35000 / 13.6 / 420

Cadillac CTS-V=400 / $51000 / 9.2 / 469
Cadillac STS-V=469 / $77000 / 8.2 / 631

Chevy Cobalt SS=205 / $22000 / 13.5 / 297
Chevy Corvette C6=400 / $45000 / 7.95 / 357
Chevy Corvette Z06=505 / $70000 / 6.3 / 441
Chevy Impala SS=303 / $28000 / 11.7 / 327
Chevy Malibu SS=240 / $25000 / 13.2 / 330
Chevy Monte Carlo SS=303 / $28000 / 11.0 / 308
Chevy Trailblazer SS=395 / $33000 / 12.0 / 396

Chrysler Crossfire=215 / $40000 / 14.0 / 560
Chrysler PT Cruiser=230 / $29000 / 13.3 / 385
Chrysler 300C SRT-8=425 / $40000 / 8.7 / 348

Dodge Caliber SRT-4=300 / $24000 / 9.8 / 235
Dodge Charger SRT-8=425 / $36000 / 8.9 / 320
Dodge Viper SRT-10=510 / $84000 / 6.7 / 562

Ford Mustang GT500=500 / $41000 / 6.7 / 274
Ford Mustang GT=300 / $28000 / 11.5 / 322

Honda S2000=237 / $34000 / 11.9 / 404
Honda Civic Si=197 / $24000 / 14.6 / 408

Hyundai Tiburon=172 / $20000 / 17.3 / 346

Infinite G35=315 / $35000 / 11.1 / 388

Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT-8=425 / $40000 / 11.2 / 448

Lexus IS350=306 / $35000 / 11.3 / 395

Lincoln MKZ=263 / $35000 / 12.9 / 450

Lotus Elise=190 / $43000 / 10.4 / 447
Lotus Exige=243 / $80000 / 8.1 / 648 (Not street legal)

Mazda MX-5=170 / $28000 / 14.35 / 401
Mazda RX-8=238 / $28000 / 12.7 / 355
MazdaSpeed3=260 / $24000 / 10.3 / 247
MazdaSpeed6=287 / $30000 / 11.1 / 333

Mercedes CLK=475 / $85000 / 7.5 / 637

Mini Cooper S=175 / $25000 / 14.5 / 362

Mitsubishi Evo XI=286 / $35000 / 11.18 / 391
Mitsubishi Eclipse=260 / $29000 / 14.1 / 408

Nissan Altima=365 / $30000 / 11.5 / 345
Nissan 350Z=315 / $42000 / 10.6 / 445

Pontiac Solstice GXP=260 / $26000 / 11.5 / 299
Pontiac G6=252 / $29000 / 13.4 / 388
Pontiac Grand Prix=303 / $28000 / 11.4 / 320

Porche Boxter S=295 / $65000 / 9.7 / 630
Porche Cayman S=295 / $70000 / 10 / 700

Saleen S7 Twin Turbo=750 / $600000 / 3.9 / 2340

Saturn Ion=205 / $21000 / 13.4 / 281
Saturn Sky=260 / $29000 / 11.2 / 324

Scion tC=161 / $17000 / 18.0 / 306

Subaru STI=293 / $33000 / 10.3 / 339
Subaru Legacy=250 / $34000 / 12.2 / 414

VW Jetta=200 / $24000 / 16.1 / 386
VW GTI=200 / $23000 / 15.8 / 363

Volvo V50=218 / $35000 / 14.8 / 518
Volvo S60=300 / $36000 / 11.6 / 417
Volvo V70=300 / $37000 / 10.98 / 406
Volvo S80=311 / $45000 / 11.2 / 515

Well all I can say is none of those cars are in the same class as the fit so it's not really a good comparison. Try comparing the Fit with the Versa, Aveo, Wave, Yaris, Rio ,XB, XA, etc...

A Base model MT would score 21.2 lb/hp, not that it makes much of a difference.

The problem with hp comparisons is, while good for marketing, no one drives on the street winding the engine out to peak every shift. Its torque that makes a car feel powerful. Honda approaches this two ways with the US-spec Fit. One, i-VTEC, and two, aggressive gearing. The Fit still has a competitive 0-60 time.

A 200hp diesel engine can move 20,000 lbs of truck and trailer. Do you think that 274hp Hyundai engine could? With enough gearing, yes, for a short time before it destructs.

So true... I once read somewhere:
Horesepower sells cars... Torque wins races. Not that I am out racing, just contributing to nikita's point.

My other car has 8 lbs/HP. But still manages near 30 mpg on the highway. :)

Interesting Note on Horsepower
 

But it does show less hp in the examples above. The larger number is less hp relative to its weight. The reciproals show the difference.

Hyundai Sonata: 274 hp / 3350 lb = .082 hp/lb
Honda Civic: 140 hp / 2750 lb = .051 hp/lb
VW Golf: 170 hp / 3000 lb = .057 hp/lb
Kia Forte: 156 hp / 2740 = .057 hp/lb
Honda Fit: 117 hp / 2600 lb = .045 hp/lb

is the sonata a 4banger turbo or 6? if 4 and 274hp and 3350lbs, it's still a dog.

Horsepower only good for top speed where weight is not so important. For most, its torque that counts as it is the more important for acceleration. If you calculate the torque in lb-ft for each of those cars you might see another conclusion.
For example the Fit has about 109 lb-ft (23.8:1) while the Sonata supposedly has 286 lb-ft (11.5:1) yet both have mpg ratings of about 28 and 32) Ah, the gearing matters.

2600lbs?!?! Are you sure about that number? I only ask, because the Fit here in Japan, the RS in 5MT comes in at 1050kg or 2310lbs. And can go up to 1080kg with dealer options (skyroof and whatnot). The CVT model starts at 1080kg and can go up to 1100 (2420lbs). Even the 4WD model weighs in at 1170kg, which is still 26lbs lighter than what you stated.

I checked Honda's US site and the weight is not listed within the specs for whatever reason.

Does your "other car" have 2 wheels? High performance motorcycles have 3-4 pounds per HP ratios. (~600 pounds for bike + rider; 150-200 hp).

Power to weight is why the most cost effective performance mods for a Fit are things that reduce weight. Removing the spare tire, and all but the driver's seat will yield a significant performance benefit, but the Fit will no longer be a practical, multi-use car.

The thing is that the fit is one of the cars that has the less torque (absolute or for it's power), so ti doesn't really save it, turbo cars has much more torque if you compare. And yes the short gear box saves it but gives not so good mpg on the highway (would need a sixth).
The fit isn't as light as it should be.
An echo hb can manage the 0-60mph in maybe 0.5 second less than a fit too, while having much longter gears (2nd gear go over 65mph).

As far as I know, a 1.5 base fit M/T weight around 1100kg (1125 on my immatrucilation paper but I'm a bit sceptical), so 2450lb more than 2600 I think. USDM fit has a full spare tire too, I'm not sure about jdm and edm fit. And it's longer (nose and bumpers, same wheelbase). I'll weight the car next week end to know the truth. Still not a light car for it's size.

Real world, I've had to put the pedal to the metal a couple of times lately, to get around completely coma induced moron drivers. First thing, the pedal actually had to go to the metal [didn't paddle]. Second thing, the Fit's bark is quite a bit louder than it's bite. I sounded great and it felt great, but then I realized I wasn't moving all too fast past the shmuck and as everyone knows, when you're gonna pass a shmuck you at least want to make an unmistakeable statement- bye asshole. I did what I had to do, but I do miss supreme power when needed. Nine times out of ten, the Fit's giddy-yap is perfectly accetable. I've bolted nicely many a time- even better than expected. But a bullet it's not, and knowing the limits is actually something that is helpful, out there among the rest of the brain dead ass wipe drivers that surround you.

I know none of YOU are in that category, of course.

;) :vtec:


Dan

Me thinks you need to play with an M/T. While it still isn't a bullet, might be more satisfying when in those 1 of 10 times you want to pass people.

I'll have to at least experiment with paddling a down shift. I think that could have served me better.

Dan

that too.

In the past I drove two vehicles that had the auto-manual gear shift. And even though I knew how to drive a manual, I just couldn't shift properly with those things. At which point I decided not to mess with em, unless it's my own (I don't mind breaking my OWN toys).

Ah the old torque vs HP argument... So much misinformation heh heh:popc:

Peak Horsepower sells cars

Mean (avg) Horsepower wins races

Torque is used to calculate horsepower... and tow boats.

HP = torque x rpm divided by 5250.
Advertised HP decided by marketing sells cars
you forgot traction in towing.