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Are my cabin and engine filters dirty enough to change (ODO @ 15204 )?
Hi All!
Just want to get some ideas if it's time for me to change my engine and cabin air filters? My MM hasn't popped up anything yet but my ODO has reached 15,000+ and my Fit is now a few weeks over 1 year old. I looked at my filters this morning and they do look kindda dirty. I live in the LA metro area and the air isn't well-known for being clean. If I change one filter, should I change the other one, too? The pictures are below. And yes. The tiny leaves were stuck on the cabin air filter as I pulled it out. I haven't opened the replacements yet. I got them from my Honda dealer. The cabin filter was $30 and the engine filter was $25. Thanks http://img3.uploadhouse.com/fileuplo...8c8c179315.jpghttp://img3.uploadhouse.com/fileuplo...a2ea5b40d9.jpghttp://img8.uploadhouse.com/fileuplo...81ac2e92c5.jpghttp://img2.uploadhouse.com/fileuplo...9d2c41051b.jpghttp://img1.uploadhouse.com/fileuplo...c1e757e45a.jpghttp://img6.uploadhouse.com/fileuplo...6173a4d5a9.jpghttp://img1.uploadhouse.com/fileuplo...cba4af9841.jpg |
if you're going to replace your air filter every 15k miles, might as well go with k&n so you can clean and re-oil it
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also, the cabin filter is only for the air going through your climate control when you don't have it on recirculation mode
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Filters (except fuel, since they're now part of the pump assembly) should be changed by cleanliness, not distance or time. Those two filters are pretty dirty, but I'd try tapping them out (NOT blowing using compressed air- that pushes dirt and bits through the paper and puts holes in the filter!) and see how much crap comes out. If most of the dirtiness was just surface dirt, put those back in. If they're still dirty, replace them with new ones.
As sol said, K&N is a good way to go if your air filter is that dirty after 15K. They're cleanable, so you buy one for ~$40, and you're set. That's paid for in 2 OEM filters. As for the cabin, look online- you can certainly find it cheaper than the dealership. Try Amazon- I think I saw them for much cheaper from a seller on there- Mark W. |
I would change them. Keep in mind that the MM is unable to tell the condition of the filters. It has no way of knowing if the car is inhaling fresh clean air or being operated inside a soot producing factory.
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Change them, they look it.
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^^ Cosign on the replace comments. The Cabin Air Filter is pretty much done and the Engine Air Filter looks like its due for replacement as well despite not being as dirty as the CAF.
I personally wouldn't go with an oil type reusable air filter such as K&N though. Not that I am a skeptic of the product itself, its just that if a recently oiled K&N filter is used when still slightly damp those oils can possibly "drip" onto the mass air flow sensor. (Mind you, its not always going to happen but is possible.) There are non-oil reusable filters out there but I'm not sure if any are in a factory air filter size. |
The engine air filter actually doesn't look too dirty to me. Sure it's got some black spots on the peaks but it is not really caked onand a lot of it is still white. Looking into the pleats where the real work is really done, it seems completely white still. I think it will still pass air freely.
The design of the filter is upside down, so most heavy particles don't come into play and are "prefiltered" by gravity. This adds a lot to filter longevity. The cabin filter is slightly dirtier, it can last longer, but it is is more of a personal preference, if you really are highly sensitive to pollen/mustiness and so on. I would also look between the pleats, if you see actual debris(not just color) all the way into the creases then that is when you may want to change. If you want piece of mind go ahead and change them. |
If you're unsure about replacing either filter I suggest urinating on them both. Then you can be sure you should replace them.
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Originally Posted by Hootie
(Post 1049595)
^^ Cosign on the replace comments. The Cabin Air Filter is pretty much done and the Engine Air Filter looks like its due for replacement as well despite not being as dirty as the CAF.
I personally wouldn't go with an oil type reusable air filter such as K&N though. Not that I am a skeptic of the product itself, its just that if a recently oiled K&N filter is used when still slightly damp those oils can possibly "drip" onto the mass air flow sensor. (Mind you, its not always going to happen but is possible.) There are non-oil reusable filters out there but I'm not sure if any are in a factory air filter size. My goal is to have one in the car, while the other is sitting in a relatively sealed bag after having been cleaned and oiled. This should allow most of the extra oil to drip off the filter into the bag. |
There have been THOUSANDS of threads on every internet forum with people talking about over-oiled K&N filters killing MAF's. You know how many reported cases there were before K&N put up warnings? Twelve. They've sold millions of filters, and only TWELVE issues before they started warning people about over-oiling. I've oiled literally hundreds of them (I put them in every customer car I push out the door), and never had a problem.
I talked to a K&N rep at E-Town a few years back, and he said the pictures they were sent showed still-wet oil on the filter, meaning either the user either didn't allow the filter to dry after oiling (I always let it sit in front of a fan on high for 15-30 minutes, minimum, after oiling), or put on WAAAY too much oil. Since then, the internet has made K&N filters into a liability. Run one, follow directions, and never worry. I've personally put over 200K miles on vehicles with K&N filters in all sorts of conditions, from racing to rock crawling to Midtown NYC traffic, and never had an issue. Your mileage may vary, but only with user error :) Mark W. |
Change the cabin filter. It gets stinky, and reduced air flow limits the effectiveness of the A/C. I change mine in the spring before A/C season (same as the house A/C).
Unless you drive dirt roads, leave the engine filter in there 30,000 miles. The trapped grime helps filter more particulates. Replacing the filter too often allows these to pass through. More reading.
Originally Posted by Oak Ridge National Laboratory (page5)
In light- and medium-duty applications, the service life is normally defined by accumulated mileage. However, it is very common for over-servicing to occur in these applications due to a lack of understanding of how optimum air filter efficiency is achieved.5,6 The standard recommended service life for an air filter in light- and medium-duty applications, during normal driving conditions, is about 30,000 miles.5–7 It is common, however, for servicing to occur when the filter appears dirty. Engine air filters are designed to actually increase their efficiency by using this initial layer of dust as an added filter layer. Initial filter efficiency is usually approximately 98% but increases to more than 99% by the end of the service life of the filter.7,8 Therefore, changing an air filter before the useful service life is achieved can result in premature engine wear.6,9
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A dirty filter absolutely WILL reduce fuel economy. If the engine is struggling to pull in sufficient air, it will increase load, and therefore, fuel consumption. Granted, they have to be much dirtier than the OP's before that will become an issue, but the point stands. However, to add to your point:
A *somewhat* dirty engine air filter (such as the OP's) will not reduce fuel economy :) Mark W. |
no, it won't. Read the link. Modern fuel injection meters fuel according to air flow for the correct ratio.
Even carbureted cars do, but not as perfectly, through analog venturi action. Less air-flow resulted in less fuel delivered through the ports. Prior reports to the 2009 study vastly overstated the benefits of changing air filters on these cars. Engines don't "struggle" to pull in air. Air is allowed to enter unless restricted by a throttle. At idle it's almost fully restricted. All a dirty air filter does is add to the restriction. The only impact is to top end (WOT) power when the throttle is fully open, but some restriction is still provided by the air filter (and whatever else is in front of the throttle). It amazes me how professed gear-heads can be so wrong on a simple mechanical aspect. |
It looks like there are more yeas on changing the cabin air filter, so I will go ahead and change it this evening. As I'm on allegra for about half of the year or so, it can only help. For the engine air filter, as there are more nays, I'm thinking of keeping it in until the MM tells me to change. It looks like there are still many white areas on all of the fins. I tried to shake the black stuff off of the engine air filter but it didn't come off. It felt like it's mud or something sticky that just stuck on. It's gonna take me another year till I have to think about the filters again so I'm gonna take a look at the K&N thing to see how it works. But it sure sounds like a lot of work, though. Is there something cheap I can buy in bulk from the Internet or something? Anyway, thanks all for your replies.
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Cabin filter is $20. I get my wiper blade refills from them too to save on shipping. I don't think there is an aftermarket cabin filter.
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As I mentioned, it's not until the filter is thoroughly clogged that restriction occurs. I was stating that it CAN reduce fuel economy only in more extreme cases. Just nitpicking- instead of never, almost never. I know full-well how an engine works, and was simply clarifying- Mark W.
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No, it can't.
Originally Posted by Oak Ridge Laboratory page 25
The goal of this study was to explore the effects of a clogged air filter on the fuel economy of vehicles operating over prescribed test cycles. Three newer vehicles (a 2007 Buick Lucerne, a 2006 Dodge Charger, and a 2003 Toyota Camry) and an older carbureted vehicle were tested.
Results show that clogging the air filter has no significant effect on the fuel economy of the newer vehicles (all fuel injected with closed-loop control and one equipped with MDS). The engine control systems were able to maintain the desired AFR regardless of intake restrictions, and therefore fuel consumption was not increased. The carbureted engine did show a decrease in fuel economy with increasing restriction. However, the level of restriction required to cause a substantial (10–15%) decrease in fuel economy (such as that cited in the literature3,4) was so severe that the vehicle was almost undrivable. Acceleration performance on all vehicles was improved with a clean air filter. |
really depend on how much pollen is in the air. but yah, i suppose once every 15k miles isnt bad. i haven't changed it yet on my 09... oops.
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