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VTC actuator rattle on a 2015?

  #41  
Old 06-18-2017, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Uncle Gary View Post
That's odd, my '09 Fit did.
You are thinking of VTEC, that's not the same as VTC.

VTC is Hondas acronym for Variable Timing Control (variable camshaft timing). It employs a hydraulically adjustable cam gear to advance and retard (a) camshaft.
Honda used VTC on Fit beginning with the 2015 model year.

HTH
 
  #42  
Old 06-27-2017, 02:06 PM
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HERE IS THE PDF FROM HONDA THAT GOES OVER THE FIX FOR IT.

TIPS IF YOU DO THIS:

- Use Permatex Ultra Grey instead of Hondabond HT. Hondabond is such a pain to work with.
- The high pressure fuel pump likely doesn't need to be removed. You should be able to remove the head cover without needing to remove the fuel pump. If you do remove the fuel pump, use an impact. I tried using a normal wrench and it stripped the hex screw.


It's not an easy fix and there is a lot of room for error. As in, things will break if you mess it up.

____________________________________


Replaced the VTC actuator (using #14310-5R1-013 instead of #14310-5R1-003) last weekend. It was a huge pain in the ass and took like 5-6 hours to complete with many breaks and beer.

Also replaced various gaskets and the fuel pipe (16012-5R1-315) running from high pressure pump to the fuel rail.

Pretty much looks like this:
  • Wheel chocks
  • Remove fuel pump relay (it's the blue relay under the dash, drivers side, top right of the relaybox). Start the car and keep it running until it stalls.
  • Remove the air filter assembly & throttle body
  • Remove intake manifold
  • Remove ignition coils
  • Do not remove the fuel pump, but instead remove the 10mm screws that hold the fuel pump mount onto the head, then remove that bit with the pump still on it. There's a roller for the pump that might fall out though. Put the roller side down (duh).
  • Remove the head cover
  • Hand rotate crank to cyl 1 TDC. There are indicators for this on the VTC actuator, exhaust cam gear, and there are two indents on both camshafts that line up, for tool 07AAB-RWCA120
  • Place a ziptie on the exhaust cam gear (non VTC), so that the chain cannot be removed from that sprocket (important)
  • On the chain that is on the VTC actuator, place a mark on the chain where the arrow & dot line up on the link (this is hard to explain, but you want the new actuator to be in the same place on the chain)
  • Loosen front passenger wheel nuts, but do not remove yet
  • Lift car on jack & jack stands
  • Remove front passenger wheel
  • Remove tensioner cover
  • Turn crank CCW a tiny bit from TDC or until there's enough slack in the tensioner to place a lock pin into it
  • Remove the tensioner (not sure if this is needed, but I did it)
  • Undo the bolts holding the camshaft in order
  • Put a bungie cord on the timing chain & hold it up onto the hood or hood latch up top. Keep tension on the chain and do not let any slack in the chain. It could potentially fall off the sprocket at the bottom (maybe)
  • Carefully lift the timing chain from the VTC actuator and remove the camshaft
  • On a workbench with like a thousand towels, use a 23mm wrench on the camshaft and undo the bolt holding the actuator
  • Install new unlocked VTC actuator in place, torque it to spec, turn it until it clicks
  • Place the camshaft back in, go hand tight at first
  • Rotate it so it lines up with the exhaust camshaft, use the tool (07AAB-RWCA120) to keep them rotated correctly before putting the chain on and tightening it all the way
  • Install everything else in reverse order

Total cost was like $200-300
 

Last edited by Kevin Evans; 12-31-2017 at 01:22 AM.
  #43  
Old 06-29-2017, 08:36 PM
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finally a properly documented procedure! not sure what's all the fuss with the rattles, other than annoyance, but when my motor blows up I will let you guys know since I live with these rattles every day ... and powertrain warranty is ... done.
 
  #44  
Old 06-29-2017, 09:39 PM
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I did take the old actuator a part just to see if there was anything wrong with it. Nothing internally was broken. In fact, it still looked brand new, even after 80,000 miles.


Basically how the actuator works is it retards and advances the outer sprocket timing relative to keyed camshaft. The actuator contains a spring loaded lock pin, which presumably keeps it disengaged until the oil pressure in one of the channels in the camshaft reaches some high value (it is probably done at the same time that the vtec cam lobes get locked).

I should reiterate that I'm not an expert by any means, but I think what's happening is the lock pin is becoming disengaged (or possibly partially engaged) once the oil drains out from inside of it. So when it rattles, it might be the lock pin becoming lodged and dislodged until the normal oil pressure is reached. Doing this might put extra wear on that lock pin until eventually it either shears (kinda doubt this part) or it no longer is able to lock fully.

I'm thinking in the newer design of the actuator, it must be improving this lock pin design or it somehow prevents the oil from being drained out of it.
 
  #45  
Old 12-04-2017, 08:26 AM
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2016 Honda EX automatic.
Unfortunately, since the weather has turned cold, I've noticed a nearly split second grinding (rough) sound on start up.

So it's either the actuator or the bendix gear in the a starter?

Discouraging to me, because the problems is so intermittent there is no way I'm going to get a dealership to recognize it.
Discouraging because at less than 2 years, and less than 20,000 miles this has already started to happen.

If Honda has a known problem with either the VTC actuator or their starters...shouldn't this be a recall?
If they have "improved" the parts moving forward isn't that complicit admission the parts were not good enough originally?

Hate having a problem where I have to wait as warranty slowly expires, and hope it either get's worse rapidly before it does, or just doesn't get much worse at all.
 
  #46  
Old 12-04-2017, 01:45 PM
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i just leaned to live with it. kinda sad when i started the GK last night to go grab some burgers for supper and it made the loud noise during start up while my neighbor who's house is getting foreclosed witnessed the noise. like i'm next. lol hahahaha
 
  #47  
Old 12-04-2017, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by fitchet View Post
If Honda has a known problem with either the VTC actuator or their starters...shouldn't this be a recall?
If they have "improved" the parts moving forward isn't that complicit admission the parts were not good enough originally?.
This is not really a reliability problem nor is it a safety problem. It is a "annoyance" problem, like a squeaking spring in a seat. Annoyances rarely get recalls. Nonetheless if your car is under warranty you should pursue this with your dealer - there have been mentions in this forum of Honda replacing the part under warranty. It has been a problem on a number of Honda models and I believe there are TSBs out detailing the fix. Once you are off warranty, forget it.
 
  #48  
Old 12-04-2017, 05:02 PM
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My thought is if this was just a noise Honda would not issue a TSB, design a new part & pay to replace these. Over the short term this may not be a problem. The jury is still out if these will fail & cause further fun & games as time goes by with added miles. Just idle speculation on my part.

I heard this noise Thanksgiving night as my son started his Fit to leave our house. Dang it anywho!
 
  #49  
Old 12-04-2017, 08:52 PM
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Wow.
Even more depressed after looking at that 11 page service bulletin.
Seems like a pretty complicated repair, that could cause an annoying noise at start up to become something far worse if the repair isn't done correctly.
 
  #50  
Old 12-17-2017, 01:03 AM
Join Date: Oct 2015
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Posts: 117
Just had my VTC actuator rattle replaced at no cost (under warranty). The bad news is the rattle is still there after I shut off the engine. I don't want to go back to the dealership and wait another 7 hours. I think i'll live with it and fingers crossed, will not cause future problems. Just a guess, could it be the starter?
 
  #51  
Old 12-17-2017, 08:33 AM
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yah, sorry to hear about ur experience. honda's quality has gone down the drain the last decade and the GK is still experiencing some of that effect. hopefully by next gen they figure all this out for u guys who are planning to get them.
 
  #52  
Old 12-31-2017, 01:21 AM
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6 month update after replacing the actuator!

I occasionally get the rattle even with the replacement updated design on the VTC actuator. It's very infrequent though, probably occurring once every 20 starts, and only lasts maybe half a second. It actually sounds more similar to a starter grind now (e.g. the starter gear isn't disengaging properly? I'll have to inspect the ring gear when I get a chance and see it's not actually that).
 

Last edited by Kevin Evans; 12-31-2017 at 01:24 AM.
  #53  
Old 12-31-2017, 10:57 AM
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took my '07 into Pep Boys last night to have a remanufactured starter put in. I was getting the bendix gear grind at least twice a week and it isn't all that cold here in Oceanside.
 
  #54  
Old 07-31-2018, 10:10 PM
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DId fixing the VCT help with the noise at cold start?
 
  #55  
Old 08-01-2018, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by nwilleez View Post
DId fixing the VCT help with the noise at cold start?

Yes. The unlocked defective actuator causes that noise.
 
  #56  
Old 08-01-2018, 07:44 PM
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it'll come back in about 6-10 months since u did the repair about a yr ago.
 
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