Why no 1.5ltr Turbo Fit
 

Why won't Honda put the Civic's 1.5ltr turbo into the Honda Fit?

:yeahthat:

I'd love it too, but think they don't because it would steal sales away from Civic. The real question is why they don't put it in the HR-V.

You're asking the wrong question. What you should ask is:

Why should Honda put a turbo in the Fit?

Now you answer it. If they had any inclination towards turbos I think they should put one in the HR-V first.

Because it makes no sense......to anyone?

The Fit has an inferior chassis for safety, comfort & handling.
The Fit is not much lighter than the Civic.
A Fit is $2000 cheaper than a comparably equipped Civic 1.5T, make it $1000 (at MOST) cheaper than a Civic with the same engine.
They have to make the packaging work.

It isn't worth for Honda because it'll cost a bunch & NO ONE would buy it. With how good the current Civic is I've been actively telling people to ignore the Fit & look at the Civic.

This coming from someone who talked five people into buying first or second generation fits.

They put it in the CR-V (built on the Civic). The HR-V is built on the Fit and neither have the structure to handle the torque.

makes complete sense to me. :nod: civic hb sport appears to be a great choice.

Another factor is lack of space in the engine bay.

Remember, the Fit/HR-V platform was designed specifically to use as little area as possible. (4 valves per cylinder, but with a SINGLE overhead cam.) (Intake stacked ON TOP of the engine rather than on the side.)

I suppose anything is possible (aren't there Smart cars out there with retrofitted V8????) :ohnoes: but I can't see Honda doing a turbo until the platform is revised.

eep
There is no reason aside from image, why honda couldn't load the L15B7 into the 3rd gen fit sold as a "si" or "type r" version...

• here's a good video filled with both useful and misleading information:
  • You Tube
  • according to the http://world.honda.com/EarthDreamsTechnology/ , the 1.5L class is DOHC i-vtec, which includes both the cam profile and the vtc.
• and then there's this
  You Tube

The Fit is marketed as an entry level economy car. Sure, there are upscale versions. Many average customers will pay more for all the latest electronic bells and whistles, leather seats and a sunroof. If that package also includes a turbocharged engine, fine. But the average customer is not going to pay significantly more money in order to get a turbo. Especially in a car like the Fit.

Look at how they marketed the new Sport model. It's mostly just a cosmetic upgrade that's positioned, in terms of price, between the LX and the EX. Honda knows who the Fit customers are. If they thought there was a market for a high performance Fit, they would have included the turbo and positioned the Sport just like they position the Civic Si within that line.

Obviously, Honda recognizes that there is a market for more performance oriented, smaller cars. So they sell the Civic Si and Type R to appeal to that market. If a customer wants performance, Honda makes more money by selling them one of these Civics. And if a customer just wants something with a turbo all they have to do is buy a Civic in one of the higher trim levels.

Really, though, it just comes down to economics. Honda sells a LOT of Civics - more than any other model except the CRV. According to the most recent sales report I found, as of the end of August, Honda sold 248,928 Civics so far in calendar year 2017. (The CRV only sold about 1000 more.) There is no breakdown between different trim levels, but I'm sure that, as a percentage of total Civic sales, the Si and Type R account for a very small portion of sales. Interestingly, total Civic sales were down by 2.6% compared to the same time period of 2016.

In comparison, Honda only sold 35,976 Fits during that same period. So they sell about 7 times more Civics than they do Fits. Fit sales dropped even more than Civic sales, down 5.8%. If they made a high performance turbo version of the Fit, the numbers sold would be so small that it would not be worth their while, especially considering that sales of the whole line are dropping faster than the Civic line.

So, don't hold your breath.

I imagine that the vast majority of Fit buyers are much like my girlfriend, who recently bought a 2018 LX CVT. She also drove a non-turbo Civic LX but chose the Fit because it was cheaper, had more cargo carrying space and got a bit better MPG. As for the Civic, she liked that it was quicker and felt more stable, but chose the Fit instead.

Hmmm. Have you read the Civic forum? Lot's of complaints - even more than you'll find on here. I have a 2008 Civic Coupe with about 153k miles on it and I had been thinking of buying a new car this year. The only cars I've ever bought new have been Hondas - mostly Accords. This is my second Civic - first one was a new 1975 CVCC hatchback. I also raced a first generation Civic in SCCA many years ago. Despite all this, I've decided to hold off on buying a new one in the hopes that Honda can solve some of the problems. And, if I do buy one, I seriously doubt it will be a turbo. I keep cars at least 10 years and I'm not convinced that the turbo will be as reliable or as inexpensive to maintain as my previous Hondas. Fortunately, they still offer the 2.0 NA engine, which also does not use direct injection, which I also wonder about. All cars have some problems, but it seems like Honda has been in a downward slide that goes beyond the expected first year issues when a new generation is introduced.

Oh yeah, sorry 'bout that, the new DI engines ARE double overhead cam. :o

Wait, so you're saying a forum for a relatively staid economy car with a minimal enthusiast following is just filled with bored people complaining?

Shocking.

Non-car enthusiasts only use car forums to complain about small issues they should have considered prior to purchasing and/or complaining about little issues that arise, making forums a place in which any car is likely to look quite poor. Also consider that Honda has probably already sold more of this new Civic than it has 2015+ Fits, so the pool for potential first year issues is much larger.

true... and wats more shocking is a guy with minimal car buying experience writing a novel about how to buy a car. lol

but there are gaping holes in the engine bay i can see the ground...! :D
like folks running large diameter wheels with huge gaps between barrel of wheel and brake rotor.. or more sadly brake drums. lol

Lol. WHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat??!?

I would add they complain inelegantly and without forethought or understanding. But, that's the internet for you.

I agree with you that forums probably don't attract a representative cross section of owners.

But judging from the number of posts about high performance and mods, I would guess that the percentage of forum members who would be considered enthusiasts is higher than in the general population of owners.

I don't doubt that the percentage of complainers is higher on forums, too. But I also don't doubt that the complaints are legitimate and that lots of owners who aren't on a forum are also experiencing those same issues. Most of the complainers seem to get on a forum in the hope that fellow owners will offer some helpful advice that leads to a solution to their problem.

True, some complaints are the result of the owner not doing their homework before they bought the car. Others are minor annoyances that are common with any new car and are easily remedied. Those don't cause me any concern.

But there do seem to be quite a few problems that are mentioned repeatedly and seem to be more persistent, so it's understandable that the owners are frustrated. And when a large number of those issues are also seen in a much larger database, like Consumer Reports, it becomes obvious that they are not just isolated incidents.

In general, there does seem to be a pattern in that the more sophisticated "features", which are more prevalent in the higher trim levels, seem to generate most of the complaints. The owners who complain are mostly just guilty of expecting the car to function, as advertised, in a consistent manner.

The newest generation of Civics came out in 2016 and you would expect some problems, but there seem to be lots of owners of 2017 models that have the same complaints. So they aren't just first year issues. The 2018s? We'll see.

The fact that the dealers service departments seem to be unable solve some of the problems quickly just adds to the owners' frustrations. Of course, dealer service departments are pretty much universally hated. And these are problems that are covered under warranty. Just wait until those owners have to start paying.

I will say that I haven't seen any complaints that seem to be outright dangerous. And, overall, the cars - both the Civic and the Fit - seem to be reliable. I'm pretty old school and have no real interest in all the bells and whistles. But most customers do think they are important and if they pay good money for them, they expect them to work.

I'm still a Honda fan. I'm glad my girlfriend bought a Fit and I'm hoping it will be reliable. If I buy a Civic it will likely be an LX. Keep it simple . . . well, as simple as possible. And I know other brands have their problems too.

OK, circling back to the subject of this thread . . .

Hopefully, the turbo engines will prove to be reliable. This may not be the first year for this generation of Civic, but, this is the first year for the turbo engines, right? I know other manufacturers have used turbos. I wonder how many of them have a reputation of being trouble-free for 150k or 200k miles. I've also read concerns about the long term reliability of direct injection. Time will tell on both of these issues. I guess if you buy a new car every few years, no problem.

So, is this your "welcome to the forum" message??

In case others may have missed it, he's referring to this thread: https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/3rd-...good-deal.html

LOL . . . yeah, it is pretty long-winded. Part of my MO I suppose.

Hopefully, I haven't violated any rules of forum etiquette. It didn't occur to me that long-time members would be offended by a new member jumping in and posting something designed to help people save some money. My bad.

I don't claim to be an expert and I'm sure many people on here have purchased more new cars than I have. I just thought it might be helpful to start a thread dedicated to that topic since other suggestions on this topic seemed to appear so randomly. So far, the only comments on that thread have been positive.

I am hoping that others will contribute to the thread. So if you have any tips on how to get a good deal when buying a new car, please post them.

The turbo 1.5 would sell more Fits because the worst thing about the Fit is gearing that's fine for a city car, but isn't as well suited to highway drivers. The extra torque of a turbo would permit more conventional gearing and better efficiency.

The Civic hatch is so aggressively ugly you might think it is being marketed to the blind. Moreover, it isn't a real hatch but more a fastback sedan.

There is a small-ish market for hatches as the Mini, Mazda3, Kia Niro and VW Golf show, but you need a hatch if you are going to compete in it.

huh, i thought the civic-hb sport trim looked pretty good. :nod: im not sure about the type-r though.. i think they went a little too crazy but it is a special car so..

I find its appearance busy and disjointed, lacking the coherent grace of the Mazda equivalent. I may be a bit conservative in this respect; I opted for a regular Golf rather than a GTI for several reasons, one of which was aesthetic.

I have little doubt that the Civic is mechanically brilliant.