break fluid change
 

Honda shop keeps on recommending break fluid change every time i go for oil change. Is it necessary to change break fluid. They have coded it for every 30k miles. When i took it to reliable mechanic shop to do beak fluid, he refused it. He told me not to worry about it. I guess i will take it to his shop again instead of following honda shop recommendations. Any thoughts on this?

Every 3 years is what's recommended. If someone is suggesting you do it every oil change they're trying to rip you off.

I keep on refusing it. It is 5 year old car. I will take it to outside shop. He is a good person. Honda shop also recommended to replace front break pads and resurface rotors. Suppose to be down to 2mm. It will be cheaper to do at outside shop anyway. I have Smart Entry System warning light on. But nothing showed up in Honda shop inspection report.

If it's been five years and you've never done it then it's reasonable for them to keep reminding you.

You can buy a brake fluid tester fairly cheaply from an automotive store or from Amazon. They measure the moisture content of your brake fluid. 1% to 2% water content is OK, 3% means time to change the fluid. That small amount of moisture in the brake fluid can cause a lot of damage. Brake fluid pulls water out of the air over time so the moisture content will just keep slowly going up. Honda has arbitrarily set 3 years as the time to change your fluid. Mileage is irrelevant. So, you can either just change it every three years as Honda recommends or you can measure and monitor the actual moisture content and change it when it starts approaching the 3% level.

I'm guessing that if you live in a dry area such as California or Arizona it will take longer for your brake fluid to become contaminated whereas if you live in a high humidity area like Florida this would happen much more quickly.

I frequent exachage ther reservoir fluid and never really had very long term issues with brakes on my old cars.

I have been replacing my brake fluid now on a once-per-year basis in the fluid reservoir on my 1992 Acura Integra (1 owner & sold in 2017) and 2002 CR-V (1 owner sold in 2019). Brake fluid exchange (whole system) happened every ~ 3 years. Only on my CR-V did I have the rear/passenger-side caliper seize up - hey it lived its life bathed in salt in Minnesota and Northern states.

Brake fluid is right up there with power steering fluid as a fluid that is neglected

Brake fluid is clear but turns darker over time.

Look at the brake fluid reservoir, if you can readily see the level it needs to be changed.

Surprise! Surprise! :D

Need help please, I'm doing rear shoes on a 2015 fit , got the passenger side after some self confusion got cleared up, went to do the drivers side and I can get the wheel cylinders to collapse, however not enough to get the drum back on it appears the adjuster is keeping it from closing enough to get the drum on. HELP

I'm not familiar with the adjuster, but can you see how to loosen the adjuster? The hand brake is off?

Here's some text from chilton's./ I'll see if I can post the drawings.

1. Remove the tension pins (A) by pushing respective shoe clamp springs (B) and turning the pin.
2. Remove brake spring B, and remove the brake shoe assembly over the hub.
3. Remove the forward brake shoe (C) by removing brake spring A, and disassemble the brake shoe
assembly.
4. Remove the rearward brake shoe (D) by disconnecting the parking brake cable from the parking
brake lever (E).
5. Parking Brake Lever - Remove
1. Remove the U-clip (A), wave washer (B), and parking lever pin (C), and separate the parking
brake lever (D) from the brake shoe (E).
Installation
CAUTION
Frequent inhalation of brake pad dust, regardless of material composition, could be hazardous to your health.
Avoid breathing dust particles.
Never use an air hose or brush to clean brake assemblies. Use an OSHA-approved vacuum cleaner.
NOTE:
Keep grease away from the brake drum and the brake shoes.
Refer to the Exploded View as needed during this procedure.

1. Install the parking brake lever (A) and the wave washer (B) on the parking lever pin (C), and
secure with a new U-clip (D).
NOTE: Pinch the U-clip securely to prevent the parking brake lever from coming out of the brake
shoe (E).
2. Connect the parking brake cable to the parking brake lever.
2. Brake Shoe - Install
1. Apply a thin coat of Molykote 44 MA grease to the edge of the shoe surfaces (A) that contact the
backing plate as shown. Wipe off any excess.
NOTE: Keep grease off the brake linings.
2. Install connecting rod A and B on the adjuster bolt (C).
NOTE:
Clean the threaded portions of connecting rod A and the sliding surface of connecting rod B,
then coat them with Molykote 44MA grease.
Shorten connecting rod A by fully turning in the adjuster bolt.

3. Assemble the brake shoes, the brake spring A (D), and the connecting rods with the adjuster bolt
against the backing plate, then install the adjuster lever (E) and the adjuster spring (F) on the
forward brake shoe (G).
4. Install the brake spring B (H).
NOTE: Make sure the brake shoe positioning on the brake shoe bosses of the backing plate, and
fitting the top of the brake shoes onto the wheel cylinder pistons.
5. Install the tension pins (A) and the shoe clamp springs (B) by pushing in respective spring and
turning each pin.
3. Brake Drum - Install
4. Rear Wheels - Install
5. Parking Brake - Adjust
1. Press the brake pedal several times to make sure the brakes work and to set the self-adjusting
brake.
NOTE: Engagement of the brakes may require a greater pedal stroke immediately after the brake
shoes have been replaced as a set. Several applications of the brake pedal will restore the normal
pedal stroke.
2. Adjust the parking brake.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fit...d0054cf593.jpg
ID DIAGRAM
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fit...0ba248d93c.jpg
BRAKE SHOE INSTALL 1
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fit...7244a69e7f.jpg
BRAKE SHOE INSTALL 2
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fit...9e5895fb59.jpg
BRAKE SPRING INSTALL
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fit...e19f4d3210.jpg
PARKING BRAKE LEVER INSTALL
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fit...d91bf9bb02.jpg
PARKING BRAKE LEVER REMOVE
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fit...3414fad7e5.jpg
TENSION PINS 1
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fit...81721d8a30.jpg
TENSION PINS 2

Brake fluid absorb water. In Australian, Europe Mexico says t change it every 3 years. regarding milage. I did it myself. When I went to the dealer to ask about the size of the screw they told me they never ever bleed the fluid they just change it. Manual easy use dot 3, but honda only sells dot 4. So it is backwards compatible. You can youse dot 5.1 it is better but like 5 dollar more expsenvie.
So yes, change the brake fluid, even tho it has not water fluid get contaminated (dark) so with all the psi you can destroy in the long run the hoses thus the abs system.
If you are not going to change it every 3 years what you can do is with a syringe suck up all the old brake fluid and put new one. Without bleeding. Erick the car guy has done this procedure in honda veichle and says honda do it at the dealer. So you might be safe .

exchange just the fluid in the reservoir does help some but wouldn’t get all the moisture out from the tubing and calipers where the corrosion takes place and cause stuck calipers. You should bleed through the system at all the wheels.

That's good that you do the reservoir, but the fluid goes bad starting at the caliper from the brakes heat.

I change my fluid every 2-3 years based on if just time or if I need the brakes done. When I autocross, I would do them every season in the spring. There would be a noticeable feel in the brake pedal before and after the fluid change.

Run as fast as your two feet will take you.

I agree - ABS and brake system need fresh fluid replenishment ~ 2 years once they're at the 30000 mile mark. I take out the fluid in the reservoir and replace it every year with fresh and every 2 years bleed the brakes. 17+ years on my CRV and many more on my Integra GS-R and never had to replace a caliper.

I had SpeedBleeders on a couple of cars. Each one had a check-ball inside, so bleeding was simpler - no opening and closing the bleeder as the brake pedal was lowered and raised. Maybe I'll get them for the Fit.

Speed Bleeder Main Page

As others have said, 3 years is a good rule of thumb, but if your fluid is brown or contaminated, do it sooner. New brake fluid is the color is olive oil or lighter. As it ages, it gets brown. Your big concern is water (moisture). Brake fluid is hygroscopic.

Maybe he's honest. Maybe he's incompetent. Maybe he's lazy. I took a car to an independent shop once and specifically told them to flush the brake system. When I went to pick up the car, it had not been done. The shop owner said it "didn't need it." My brake fluid was dark brown, and it had been more than 3 years. I don't go to shops that don't do what I tell them to do, so that was the last time for me.

Leave a shop that doesn't do what you ask. Prime Honda (Boston) said they rotated my tires when I picked up the car - I showed them in the Bay that my RED CLAY pen marks for FL (front left)...RR were unchanged. I made a big stink and had both the site Manager and Service Manager come out an apologize in front of everyone. I'll never return there. I've since purchased a Low Profile lift and learned to rotate my own tires AND did both my neighbors and now have cases of bubbly refreshment as a reward.

Car dealers are awful. I've been buying cars since 1965, and I've known only one good dealer - Irwin Motors in NH. I could never understand why that have to - and get away with - lying and stealing. Although, our local Toyota dealer got in big trouble maybe twenty years ago. I forget the details, but I think they were adding hundreds of dollars to the price of each car. Buying used from an individual is the way to go. I think salesmen who are too unscrupulous even for new car dealerships wind up as used car salesmen.

This.

Put the b*st*rds out of business by doing it yourself (or, at least, having a fellow Fitfreaker do it for/with you).

It troubles me that Honda has stopped selling Service Manuals. But I guess lots of things trouble me about the Honda of the last 10+ years.

Yes it is a good idea to pump fluid out through all the brake lines, by bleeding at all 4 nipples. Aftermarket service manual said left front (drivers side) first, then next wheel going clockwize (right front, right rear, left rear). If you get an inexpensive hand vacuum pump of this sort (here is a hand vacuum pump listing – I'm not recommending any particular vacuum pump kit) you can do the job by yourself. However the nipples on the Fit are nonstandard size so you'll need to get vinyl tubing that is slightly narrower in inside diameter than the tubing that typically comes with this sort of vacuum bleeder. Otherwise when you draw vacuum you might pull the hose off instead of pull brake fluid out. Also, with a slightly loose hose while it may not get sucked off, you are likely to pull air into the hose that gets into the hose between the nipple and the hose. You'll see bubbles in the hose. And you won't be able to tell if they came from the ambient air or from the brake fluid. Since the brake fluid probably does not really need bleeding, just sucking out, you may not want to worry about it if you see bubbles for this reason. However it is best if you get a snug fitting hose from somewhere. .Anyone found a good hose? Let us know.

Yes, bubbles in the tubing can be misleading. I use a vacuum pump, and when I change the fluid, I often see bubbles, but I know they are from air leaking in around the tubing connection, rather than air in the brake system. When brake line components are removed, and air actually enters the system, then a proper fit is essential to make sure all the air is out of the system.

Another technique I've heard about is simply attaching plastic tubing and opening the bleeding screw slightly. The fluid will slowing run out on its own. Just be sure to keep an eye on the level in the reservoir. I haven't tried this, but it seems to make sense.

I haven't tried simply opening the bleeder valve either. I wonder if there is a lot of air, there may not be enough sustained pressure, from gravity, to get all of it, to get as much flow of brake fluid as you need. Something that I heard bout bleeding involved air being less dense than brake fluid. I'm having trouble remembering it preisely but I think it was that if you attach the tube to the nipple and open the nipple, you'll need gravity to get the brake fluid to flow out, but if the tube were to immediately go downward from the nipple, air from outside would get into the tube, so you should hold the tube up, then make it into an inverted U, and then have the end of the U be below the level of the nipple and that way air in the brake fluid will rise to the bottom of the upside down U. Something like that. That doesn't seem right though. My memory is failing me here!??

Maybe it is that when you attach the tube to the nipple there will be air in the tube, and that air can rise up into the nipple? So that is why you first go up with the tube? That doesn't sound right either.

Unless the system has been taken apart or damaged, there won't be any air in the system. Changing the fluid is just a matter of out with the old and in with the new.

The Fits don't have a lot of ground clearance. What is it, 14 cm (5.5 inches)? Has anyone been able to bleed the front brakes, and the rear brakes, without first putting the car on jack stands and removing the wheels?

I'm sure it's possible to bleed the brakes with the car on the ground, but it wouldn't be convenient or (for me) comfortable, so in my opinion it's an easier job with the car in the air on jack stands.

Plus, it makes it easier to inspect other parts of the brakes, suspension, etc. once I have the tires off.

Yes. Absolutely. If I had my own place to work I would surely put my car on jack stand. However I live in an apartment and it's against my lease to work on my car in the parking lot. So I work on my car in parking lots for stores that have gone out of business. Which means I like to work fast and try to finish before the security person comes over and tells me to go away. Plus I live in a mountainous area and it isn't so easy to find a parking lot where there is a level area. I don't like to work too far from where I live in case I realize in the middle of doing a job that I forgot some tool that I need, and then I have to put everything back together and drive home, find the tool, and then start all over again.

Do you not have a friend with a flat driveway (and maybe a jack and jack stands)? Much easier and safer than trying to be a covert ninja mechanic in a dark parking lot. If I had to work on my car under the circumstances you describe I would just take it to a (trusted) mechanic.

I thought more about bleeding brakes and am now thinking that even if you can reach the bleeders it's going to be really difficult to open/close them. It might require specialized tools (e.g., crowfoot wrenches) and you run a greater risk of rounding off or breaking a bleeder than when you have direct access with the wheels off.

But, let's assume that you still want to try. You can use short pieces of 2x6 board to gain a little more clearance. Not much, but every little bit will help. If you use your scissor jack you can lift each wheel to put the boards underneath, or if you have long enough boards you can drive onto them like a stair-step ramp. Unfortunately you can't use the parking brake if you're going to bleed the brakes, so you need to come up with some sort of wheel chocks to make sure the car is completely safe before you should get under it.

The rears should be possible because of the simplicity of the suspension and the orientation (pointed away from wheel) of the bleeder. It's also easier to access the bleeder while laying under the relatively open back end of the car.

The fronts will be much more difficult. There's not as much clearance under the car, the suspension is more complex and will be in your way, and the bleeder is pointing right at the inside of the rim. It's probably doable but not easy. As an aside, I've always heard that you don't want to get brake fluid on paint. If you try to bleed brakes with the wheels on you're going to get brake fluid all over your rims. Maybe you care, maybe you don't.

It also occurs to me that under your DIY brake bleeding scenario you may run into a situation where you incapacitate your car. For example, if you snap off a bleeder you're stuck. If you have problems bleeding the brakes and introduce a bunch of air into the system your brakes will be compromised. Neither of these is a likely outcome when you have good access to the bleeders, but if you're trying to work on the ground with the wheels on, you're way more likely to run into problems.

If you still want to give it a try, I would recommend soaking your bleeders with penetrating fluid (I'm a PB Blaster fan) to increase the chances they'll open rather than snap off. Another job that's easier with the wheels off and the car in the air and when you have some time for chemistry and contemplation, but....

I have a rolling hydraulic jack, a,lightweight aluminum type, and jack stands. I am able to use a hand truck to bring the jack to my car, and able to lift it from the truck to the back of the car. But jacking up the car is time consuming, and I am getting older. 75 years old now. I do not know any mechanics that I trust. The only way I know how to find one who I think I can maybe trust is to pay someone to do a job and watch them to see if they do it correctly. I bled all 4 brakes 4 years ago. Had no trouble unscrewing the bleeder valves at that time. I also bought an impact driver recently. 18 volt battery type. I3 ampere hour battery. It will take all 4 wheels off, and then back on, and replete the battery by less than half. But it really doesn't save all that much time. The time-consuming part is jacking up the front and and letting down onto jack stands. That's because the car is so low to the ground. I bring a broom with me to sweep the area before starting. I can't find any rolling jack that will reach the front lift point. They are all too high. So what I do is lift each side at the pinch weld spot for the scissor jack, and let the wheel down onto a piece of 2 by 6 lumber. Once both tires are resting on the lumber, then I can get the saddle under the center lift point (which about even with the rear of the front wheels). But the lift point is so far back that for the first few pumps, it is hard to get the saddle aligned with it, and the jack handle will only go up about 2 or 3 inches (about 5 to 8 cm) before it hits the bumper). I set the parking brake, lift the front, drop onto a pair of jack stands, then lift the back and drop onto stands. I always put a piece of plywood under the jack stands, to prevent their legs from digging into the asphalt. I bought a creeper too. But my semicircular canals are failing with age and I get a little disoriented using it. All of this would be easy if I had a house with a garage. I could jack up the car, rest for a couple of hours before taking off the wheels, rest some more before bleeding. If wouldn't have to worry about driving home to retrieve a tool that I forgot. I love working on my car and knowing that I have the knowhow and ability to take care of it myself. I wouldn't want anyone else to do it. It makes me feel good to do it myself and to know I am able to do it myself. I don't care how hard it is. ..I also do not want to pay someone $125 out of my retirement income, that I can do myself. I feel bad that I can't do root canal therapy myself and make dental restorations for my teeth myself, and that I have to pay a dentist to do this for me. But car maintenance is something I can do myself..

It sounds like you use a similar procedure to me. My only difference is that I drive the front tires onto ramps, lift the back onto jack stands using the rear central lift point, and then use the front central lift point to raise the front a few inches, remove the ramps, and lower onto jack stands. I reverse the operation to put the car back on the ground.

In your case, there's no need to lift the car onto the 2x6. Put the board in front of the tire and drive right up. That will save some jack time. If you need a bit more ground clearance you can make a simple low ramp using two pieces of 2x6 screwed together to form a step ramp.

It's commendable to do your own maintenance, and I agree that it's annoying to pay someone what often seems like a ton of money to do a job that you know you can do, but there are limits. If you need time to rest while you're working then it's unsafe to not allow yourself to do so.

I'll reiterate what I started with on my previous post. Do you have a friend, co-worker, sibling, child, cousin, someone from your church, etc. with a flat driveway? Buy them dinner in exchange for an afternoon of using their driveway. Or, since you know how to do car maintenance, offer to do something for their car in exchange for using the space. Take breaks from the brakes and hang out with them. Much safer than being in a hurry.

There are one-way bleeders called Speed Bleeders. They will not flow fluid unless there is pressure from the brake pedal. This makes it easy to work solo - as I always do.