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3rd Generation GK Specific Suspension & Brakes Sub-ForumThreads discussing suspension and brake related modifications for the 3rd generation Honda Fit (GK)
You are right that I asked about shocks in a separate thread and I did not receive any responses. People that have read your replies have very little interest in having a conversation with you. There may be twenty people on here that have interest in shocks or struts but because of your previous posts, they simply find it difficult to respond to you.
I never mentioned anything about adjustable shocks. I don't know where you pulled that from. Must be from your own mind... I live a few miles from KYB's factory. I see their billboard often enough that it makes me think of their AGX shocks and struts, so yes you are correct, and I did pull it out of my own mind. Additionally, years of auto parts store management and offering KYB's as the premium adjustable option, that was the first place my mind went.
I am only interested in replacing shocks wither either OEM shocks/strusts, or replacements that are direct replacements. Insider pro tip coming from a guy who has spent a significant amount of time selling or supporting the automotive industry service parts and the large diesel industry. Parts manufacturers get to add notes about their products that counter people will see. When a counterman is standing in front of you at any chain store they can look you dead in the eye and tell you numerous models are OEM type and even "direct replacements" because they meet fit, form, function guidelines. Here is an example from Monroe, copied from Rockauto:MONROE 5682 {Click Info Button for Alternate/OEM Part Numbers} OESpectrum Monroe has a full line of shocks called OESpectrum, they supply a list of OEM part numbers, they put all the notes together in a way that gives you the warm and fuzzy feeling that you are getting OEM parts. Then maybe Monroe is the OEM brand, I'm yet to do the research.
I've only seen three brands of rear struts for 2012 and none of them had any reviews.
Hence when I saw this thread discussing struts, it became apparent that people here are talking about "performance", modified, and other deviations from the standard suspension designs, something I absolutely have no interest in. There are so many things I have no interest in and I do the world a favor and let people with interest participate. Do I like seeing poorly modded vehicles, no I do not. Am I worried about those people, no I am not... Odds of us falling down the stairs are greater than kids with torched springs running into us.
And yes, I do believe that "modding" a honda fit, is something that is done mostly by people with limited budgets, i.e. teenagers, who can't afford true performance vehicles, but find "cheap ways" to "rice up", their hondas, and make them "faster", or "handle better". Odds are in our favor and it's a risk when you buy a Honda Fit that we likely fit into one or more of four molds. You're a die-hard environmentalist, you are incredibly frugal and have zero interest in cars, you love compact hatchbacks because they do everything well and don't break the bank, or you're in the later years of your life and need the perfect car that can be paid for on a social security budget.
All of this is often done in a very thoughtless way and often results at best with decreased reliability, and at worst with accidents.
Looks at his video for example.... I'm more concerned with texting teenagers, seniors who need licenses revoked, and soccer moms with a van, or church vans with a driver that has never driven a 6,000 pound-top heavy-van.
Now, I don't mean to insult anyone who wishes to spend their money on "modding the car", but I am still looking for feedback on replacement, OEM type struts and shocks. And if you can direct me to that information, I would appreciate it. People who don't want to insult people quite simply do not insult people. Unless a person has an issue that overwhelms their desire to be good, in that case there is potentially a small disorder that could potentially relate to or lead to a greater social issue.
I have obviously responded in bold green font inside of the quote. I have many years in the auto industry, parts industry, on and off-highway diesel industry, and all around performance racing. I'm not saying this makes me a specialist or smarter than a fluid dynamics engineer... It does mean I have some time around this stuff and I can assure you that when your Fit was built, Honda had two goals... Make as much money as humanly possible & Make sure the car exceeded the warranty expectation to prevent financial liability later. This second part includes the goal of certified pre-owned warranty. It's a good car with plenty of room for improvement.
Last edited by CyclingFit; 04-21-2017 at 09:13 AM.
I posted these links to demonstrate that there is a lot of science behind suspension design and modification. And my argument is that MOST people who modify their suspensions have no idea about this science. Not even close.
I really don't think you have any understanding of the differences between installing air ride or hydraulic suspension for looks and installing quality engineered aftermarket components? You have lumped everything into one category.
What you are buying when you spend $600+ for Koni or $1100 from Bilstein is engineering, testing and the "science" you keep referring to. Besides companies Bilstein and Tokico along with aftermarket also sell at the OEM level.
Please stop. You're entitled to you beliefs but I suspect because of them you don't spend the time to actually research. Or you have researched, but can't take you blinders off? You're just regurgitating same stuff. You're not going to damage a rim or have cracked frame rails from installing Bilstein, Koni struts or have undefined expensive repairs from it
Therefore, I am not interested in modifying the original design, which is optimized for many things including reliability, which is one of my priorities.
OEM designs are never "optimized" for anything. It's a compromise for ride quality, NVH, longevity and COST.
Quality aftermarket such as Koni, Bilstein, KYB or others are optimized. Usually for handling at the expense of NVH, longevity and that usually comes at a premium cost. I do believe Koni offers a lifetime warranty on their products for passenger car non-race applications?
Only ignorant, immature, ricer wannabes install "aftermarket crap".
This was the first insult and it originated by you.
Let me reiterate, you and everyone else is free to spend their money on any modification their heart desires. I am not telling people what to do. But to me, it is senseless, immature, and pretentious, at best... dangerous and annoying at most (e.g. missing mufflers, lowered cars that bounce and lose control in front of me in a freeway ramp, etc).
What got you so upset that you began using profanity and insults?
Reread my post, nowhere does it use profanity.
Reading the above, my take is it's OK for you to insult since that's the second one. You don't feel you should receive any back? How pretentious of you.
I have obviously responded in bold green font inside of the quote. I have many years in the auto industry, parts industry, on and off-highway diesel industry, and all around performance racing. I'm not saying this makes me a specialist or smarter than a fluid dynamics engineer... It does mean I have some time around this stuff and I can assure you that when your Fit was built, Honda had two goals... Make as much money as humanly possible & Make sure the car exceeded the warranty expectation to prevent financial liability later. This second part includes the goal of certified pre-owned warranty. It's a good car with plenty of room for improvement.
Hey, you took some serious time in typing your responses. Interesting.
So sounds like you are a parts supplier guy, so that makes sense now why you feel so upset when an aftermarket parts are being criticized or questioned. You probably feel that it's a threat to your job, career and your sense of self. Get over it.
There are way more than two variables that define the honda's choice of a suspension design and component than "making as much money as possible and avoiding financial problems beyond warranty". I think if you really believe those are the only factors, you are looking at the world in too primitive of a way.
Design decisions have to balance out dozens of parameters including handling to various rebound values of struts, performance in different climates, long term reliability, ease of replacement, compactness around the suspension area, cost of repair, interchangeability with other models, etc.
And you again, fail to see main points of my responses. You are trying to knock the straw man.
I asked about feedback on OEM type replacement rear struts for second generation fit because I could not find any reviews from the actual owners.
You told me that you live near their factory but that is completely irrelevant. You having sold parts for years, also fails to address my question.
The answer seems that there are no people who can come back and speak of their experience installing and using OEM replacement shocks that are readily available on Amazon. A large part of the users in this forum are teenagers and other "racer wannabes", who are trying to modify their Fits to make them "faster , handle like a rally car, and other crap like that. Naturally, they are going to be allured by the aftermarket crap with racy sounding names. And as I said, it's their right, but I stand by the argument that most of the people who buy "performance aftermarket parts", do so with ignorance regarding the changes that these parts make to the original designs of their vehicles, e.g. suspension setups.
Again, you can buy that aftermarket crap all you want, but know, those parts lower the car's value, increase risk of insurance denying claims, and lead to premature failure of many components of the vehicle.
And most people who own Honda Fits, I would say, are not interested in "modified aftermarket", and would prefer to replace parts with either OEM designs, or closely made replacements.
I really don't think you have any understanding of the differences between installing air ride or hydraulic suspension for looks and installing quality engineered aftermarket components? You have lumped everything into one category. I lump OEM and OEM-like replacements with aftermarket performance parts. And I say that I prefer OEM and OEM like replacements. I am not interested at all in discussing hydraulics, appearance, or any other aspects of why people seek aftermarket parts. You are pulling things out of thin air. Don't.
What you are buying when you spend $600+ for Koni or $1100 from Bilstein is engineering, testing and the "science" you keep referring to. Besides companies Bilstein and Tokico along with aftermarket also sell at the OEM level. Wrong. First of all I am not buying no performance aftermarket crappy parts. And I suspect what people are buying when they seek this is an illusion that they make their cheap and simple econobox hatchback, into a hot hatch that they can't afford in the first place.
The result? Damaged rims, spin outs, accidents, expensive repairs, cracked frame, etc.
There are plenty of examples of low profile rims getting damaged on average size pothole. I see this all the time here in LA area.
Please stop. You're entitled to you beliefs but I suspect because of them you don't spend the time to actually research. Or you have researched, but can't take you blinders off? You're just regurgitating same stuff. You're not going to damage a rim or have cracked frame rails from installing Bilstein, Koni struts or have undefined expensive repairs from it You want me to stop what? I am of course not going to damage my rims as I have no intentions of installing wrong type of rim for my car.
Let me summarize, our discussion turned into defense of the OEM designs (my side) and your attacks and criticisms of my character due to your hurt feelings about your preference for aftermarket parts.
See, what I wish I could learn is the owner's experience with this HONDA OEM like replacement rear struts:
but unfortunately there are no reviews to be found online for this specific application.
OEM designs are never "optimized" for anything. It's a compromise for ride quality, NVH, longevity and COST. As I mentioned above, there are more factors that account into a particular engineering solution than the ones you list, for example access to the part and ease of replacement, weight, specific desired performance parameters, etc. The word optimized is fine to be used in this context. Don't pick on words, we are talking about ideas, stay on the subject.
Quality aftermarket such as Koni, Bilstein, KYB or others are optimized. Usually for handling at the expense of NVH, longevity and that usually comes at a premium cost. I do believe Koni offers a lifetime warranty on their products for passenger car non-race applications?
Oh, now you use the word optimized. But you have an unproven assumption that those "aftermarket parts are of high quality", I don't think it's given at all. And there is a lot of examples online where aftermarket parts turn out to be of very low quality. The brands you mention may make quality parts, I don't know, but I care about OEM-like designs, not "performance mods". The fact that something is lifetime warranty doesn't automatically make it "high quality".
Hey, you took some serious time in typing your responses. Interesting.
So sounds like you are a parts supplier guy, so that makes sense now why you feel so upset when an aftermarket parts are being criticized or questioned. You probably feel that it's a threat to your job, career and your sense of self. Get over it.
There are way more than two variables that define the honda's choice of a suspension design and component than "making as much money as possible and avoiding financial problems beyond warranty". I think if you really believe those are the only factors, you are looking at the world in too primitive of a way.
Design decisions have to balance out dozens of parameters including handling to various rebound values of struts, performance in different climates, long term reliability, ease of replacement, compactness around the suspension area, cost of repair, interchangeability with other models, etc.
And you again, fail to see main points of my responses. You are trying to knock the straw man.
I asked about feedback on OEM type replacement rear struts for second generation fit because I could not find any reviews from the actual owners.
You told me that you live near their factory but that is completely irrelevant. You having sold parts for years, also fails to address my question.
The answer seems that there are no people who can come back and speak of their experience installing and using OEM replacement shocks that are readily available on Amazon. A large part of the users in this forum are teenagers and other "racer wannabes", who are trying to modify their Fits to make them "faster , handle like a rally car, and other crap like that. Naturally, they are going to be allured by the aftermarket crap with racy sounding names. And as I said, it's their right, but I stand by the argument that most of the people who buy "performance aftermarket parts", do so with ignorance regarding the changes that these parts make to the original designs of their vehicles, e.g. suspension setups.
Again, you can buy that aftermarket crap all you want, but know, those parts lower the car's value, increase risk of insurance denying claims, and lead to premature failure of many components of the vehicle.
And most people who own Honda Fits, I would say, are not interested in "modified aftermarket", and would prefer to replace parts with either OEM designs, or closely made replacements.
Are you lumping Koni, KYB, Bilstein, etc. into "aftermarket crap?" If so you're beyond ignorant...
Oh, you are another hurt aftermarket dude?
If you read my post above, you would understand that by aftermarket crap I am referring to any "performance" increasing replacements to OEM. Like this https://www.tirerack.com/suspension/...170421181725:s
Oh, you are another hurt aftermarket dude?
If you read my post above, you would understand that by aftermarket crap I am referring to any "performance" increasing replacements to OEM. Like this https://www.tirerack.com/suspension/...170421181725:s
I've worked in the auto industry at both the aftermarket and OEM level as an engineer and as management. I have friends along with current and past coworkers who have worked at just about every auto plant in Canada, United States and Mexico. Many of them I autocross with. They buy and use items you refer to as crap. Anyway I'm done trying to have an intelligent conversation about this with you. It's obvious you don't have a clue or want to play some sick game? Anyway go buy some white box stuff that's made to OE specifications from your favorite discount auto parts store or buy genuine Honda. Better yet, go have your Honda serviced at the dealer
To quote George Carlin:
"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."
have a nice day, I'm done with you. Soon to be added to my ignore list
Many people buy all kinds of crap.
But don't try to convince me to buy it.
Some "engineers" even engineer their own ones
Oh, and not to forget the exhaust. It adds 20 hp:
And of course, good aftermarket shocks have been developed a long time ago.
Lower the car for better stability, reliability, and satisfaction
The wheels have to be engineered to be low profile. Afterall, we all want to auto cross.
Every aftermarket rim sold in every shop, is backed by DOT, Honda, and Obama himself. The quality is top notch.
The aftermarket is for engineers, smart dudes, nobel prize laureates. Oh, and the super wealthy too.
WOW, I put aftermarket wheels with non OEM sized tires on my Fit and raced it today. I didn't spin out of control, get into an accident, bend my rim, damage/crack my shock towers or crack my frame rails. To the best of my knowledge the IEPA (Illinois Environment Protection Agency) isn't coming after me? Not sure, but we'll find out if that caused some rift in the space/time continuum that we all might die from?
WOW, I put aftermarket wheels with non OEM sized tires on my Fit and raced it today. I didn't spin out of control, get into an accident, bend my rim, damage/crack my shock towers or crack my frame rails. To the best of my knowledge the IEPA (Illinois Environment Protection Agency) isn't coming after me? Not sure, but we'll find out if that caused some rift in the space/time continuum that we all might die from?
And, dare I say, it IMPROVED your performance on the track???
Some of the biggest crappy aftermarket is seen in headlight bulbs... like blue painted halogens. Aftermarket alternators and starters are greatly inferior in quality to OEM denso/mitsubishi units.
There is a reason why insurance companies try to skimp and save on repairs using non OEM, cheaper aftermarket parts. A cheap knock off is one way to make profit.
Some of the biggest crappy aftermarket is seen in headlight bulbs... like blue painted halogens. Aftermarket alternators and starters are greatly inferior in quality to OEM denso/mitsubishi units.
There is a reason why insurance companies try to skimp and save on repairs using non OEM, cheaper aftermarket parts. A cheap knock off is one way to make profit.
john 21031 you're clearly in the wrong place. I have been on this forum since buying my Fit last Summer and have learned a ton from people who really know their stuff. You clearly don't know what you're talking about, and clearly have no interest in learning from people who do, and who are willing to take time out of their lives to try to teach you. I suggest you find another place to interact with people because you are out of place here.
04-21-2017, 08:20 AM
, handle like a rally car, and other crap like that. Naturally, they are going to be allured by the aftermarket crap with racy sounding names. And as I said, it's their right, but I stand by the argument that most of the people who buy "performance aftermarket parts", do so with ignorance regarding the changes that these parts make to the original designs of their vehicles, e.g. suspension setups. 
