AutoCrossing in Hawaii!
 

Aloha from Hawaii.

We have two Fit Sports (both MT) active in autocrossing
in Street Touring S class of SCCA.

Both using all season street tires so far and gaining in experience.
To be more competitive in class they will have to shod some Extreme Performance summer tires like the Dunlop Z1 Star Spec or Bridgestone Potenza RE-01R or maybe even the R11 when it arrives (depends on sizes available).

Pictures from last event Aug 31.
http://www.sccahawaii.org/pics2008/s.../img_35268.jpg
This 1971 Datsun 240Z ran in B Street Prepared and F Prepared (three drivers). As usual it got Fastest time of the day. The owner has been driving it since 1977 at autocross. It sports custom 15x9 rims with Hoosier A6 275/35-15 tires.

http://www.sccahawaii.org/pics2008/s.../img_35326.jpg
http://www.sccahawaii.org/pics2008/s.../img_35259.jpg
Two SSM Fit Sports cutting through the course.

The competition-
http://www.sccahawaii.org/pics2008/s.../img_35295.jpg
Mazda 6 wagon
http://www.sccahawaii.org/pics2008/s.../img_35299.jpg
Toyota Celica

Results for Aug 31.
STS class
Mazda 6 Wagon 1st of 7 in class, 43rd out of 115 drivers, 23rd on PAX
Toyota Celica 2nd of 7 in class, 81st out of 115, 67th overall on PAX
#58 Fit 6th of 7 in class, 102 out of 115, 99th on PAX (novice event):vtec:
#8 Fit 7th of 7 in class, 114 out of 115, 108th on PAX (2nd event):vtec:

PAX is with handicap applied for each class.

H stock would be the place for a Fit base or Sport.
By comparison at this event H sport was won by
http://www.sccahawaii.org/pics2008/s.../img_34901.jpg
A 2008 MINI Cooper with Kumho 710 205/50-15 tires
1st of 4 in class, 80th out of 115, 48th on PAX

So even as good as the MINI driver was able to do on R compound tires and with a favorable handicap on PAX. The top STS driver finished higher overall and higher on PAX using Street tires (Extreme Performance Summer tires).
The 2nd place STS Celica driver finished 0.1 sec slower on raw time than the MINI driver but didn't do as well on PAX due to the difference in handicap.
The Fit drivers had to make up 3 to 5 seconds on a 40 second course to catch up to the top 3 drivers in STS class.

And how fast was that 240Z? It finished over 10 seconds faster than the Fits for the event but had every advantage except for modern engineering.:D

I think once the Fits get some decent tires they will be in the top 3 in class with a little practice. The manual transmissions work fine and both have aftermarket wheels.

Results for Oct 5. (see above for comparison/improvements!)
STS class
Mazda 6 Wagon 1st of 10 in class, 47th out of 107 drivers, 27th on PAX
Dodge Stratus R/T 2nd of 10 in class, 66th out of 107, 46th overall on PAX
Lexus IS300 3rd of 10 in class, 70th out of 107, 51st overall on PAX
#58 Fit 7th of 10 in class, 91st out of 107, 79th on PAX (2nd event)
#8 Fit 8th of 10 in class, 96th out of 107, 84th on PAX (3rd event)

So, moving up and passing some drivers in class and jumped 20 places on PAX overall for the day.

http://www.sccahawaii.org/pics2008/s.../img_36230.jpg
http://www.sccahawaii.org/pics2008/s.../img_36126.jpg

Still #58 is running with All Season tires while #8 has Federal 595 summer tires. Both Fits have added suspension bracing.

Really sweet...

What do you got done to the Fit to run in STS?

STS is Street Touring S which is for H stock cars that are modified for suspension (springs or coilovers), wheels, air intake, exhaust, rear swaybar, strutbar, etc and also running on street tires- usually Extreme or Max Performance summer tires.

If they run on competition R compound tires with the same mods then they would be in F Street Prepared which is more difficult.

More powerful cars run in Street Touring X or Street Touring U (like an RX-8 that has been modified).

The latest in Fit Video with heavy metal music-:vtec:
YouTube - Hawaii SCCA Honda Fit - Randy's Run

Overall he's driving pretty well given All Season tires.
Still understeering but soon to add Coilovers.

:vtec::vtec::vtec: Go Go Go!!!!

Upgraded tires to Yokohama S.Drive which are a bit better.
Added Coilovers.

The last run was much better than the first. Still some understeer on tight turns like near the end of the course a hard left followed by the last right then finish left.

Overall doing pretty good considering this is the first season with one more event left.

The results were very close-
STS class
1. Subaru RS Wagon 36.621 seconds, 56th overall, 44th on PAX of 86 drivers
http://www.sccahawaii.org/pics2008/s.../img_40954.jpg
2. Lexus IS300 36.703 seconds, 57th overall, 45th on PAX
3. #58 Fit Sport MT 36.774 seconds, 58th overall, 46th on PAX
4. #8 Fit Sport MT 37.837 seconds, 67th overall, 55th on PAX

That's 0.153 seconds from first through 3rd place. So first place is within reach and there for the taking.

The 4th place Fit Sport had a last run of 35.579 seconds but hit one cone.

Some recent pictures-

http://www.sccahawaii.org/pics2008/s...t/dsc_8794.jpg
08FitSport

http://www.sccahawaii.org/pics2008/s...t/dsc_8778.jpg
Raton

Feb 15 was the end of the season.

Results were close again.

STS class
1. #58 Fit Sport MT 37.068 seconds, 56th overall, 35th on PAX of 101 drivers
2. Honda Civic 38.081 seconds, 66th overall, 57th on PAX
3. Subaru Impreza 2 38.181 seconds, 67th overall, 58th on PAX
4 Nissan Altima 38.841 seconds, 71st overall, 66th on PAX
5. #8 Fit Sport MT 39.004 seconds, 75th overall, 68th on PAX

Congrats to Raton for a First place in class. Good work, keep it up.:D

Those Dunlop Direzza Z1 Star Spec tires are very fast indeed.:vtec:

CONGRATULATION !!! 1st in class for Raton... What parts or on the 58 car?? what parts are on your car??

And second question what psi do u run your Dunlops... I got the same tires and I LOVE THEM!!! I run 42psi front and 35 psi rear...

Thanks FitFlowjoe.

I'm taking this win w/ a grain of salt though. :o The 3 cars that have been dominating STS this year didn't run...a Mazda 6-wagon, Lexus IS300, and a Honda Civic. Plus, the other Fit (#8, 08FitSport) was running on tires that didn't help...he's switching tires (gulp) and could be the surpise dark-horse.

I'm looking forward to the run-offs w/ everyone showing up. :vtec:

These are the mods I got (in order of purchase & SCCA events):
1. H-Fit Supa Sucka intake
2. Tanabe Touring axle-back
3. WeaponR Street header
4. AJs Voltage Stablizer (meh...couldn't hurt)
5. Enkei RPF1 (16s) 11lbs
6. Falken ZE912 (205/45/16) - 37 psi all around
7. Progress RSB
8. Camber bolts (-2 camber)9. Tanabe lower brace
10. Tanabe tower strut11. Skunk2 ProC coilovers
12. Added -2.5 camber to fronts

< Ran 5th event >13. Yokohama SDrive (205/45/16) - 37 psi all around14. Cusco rear strut barAt this point, I decided it would be better ($$), in the long run, to get a set of "track" rims & tires. Plus, the Dunlops 15s were only $89 each compared to $160 each for Bridgestone RE01 16s.

14. Enkei RPF1 15s
13. Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 StarSpec (195/55/15) - 37 psi all aroundFitFlowjoe....45 and 35 psi....I'll mess around w/ the pressure when we get some test runs. I wanted to get a tire-temp meter to get the ideal pressure.

The Fit has been my "money-pit" so I'm done w/ the mods for a bit. Just going to drive and enjoy now. :D

Ok I got thousand Questions... Glad finally someone races thier Fit with the proper parts to race in a category and not just random bolt on parts.

First: H-Fit Supa Sucka intake... is it any good?? I was thinking about the AFE intake... Right now I dont have any engine parts beside AMSOil 100% synethic oil (0W-20) and a muffler delete pipe (sounds REALLY nice)... Intake is next!!... I just dont see enough power gains to justify buying anything else

Second: WeaponR Street header... did you notice much power difference??

Third : Camber bolts (-2 camber)... Which one did you use?? and did you notice a difference?

Also have you seen this?
eBay Motors: SPC FRONT REAR CAMBER KIT 07+ HONDA FIT 2007 2008 2009 (item 270348096440 end time Mar-23-09 14:06:08 PDT)

Fourth: Tanabe lower brace... any good? I want to get the one from T1R

Fifth: Skunk2 ProC coilovers.... This should be first in my questions... But how good are they really?? I hear they are awsome!!... but out on the track can you really really feel? What drop do u have them set too??
Also how bad is it on the street with those wicked Spring Rates... I'm using Tanabe GF-210's right now.. but I want to swtich in summer to the Coilovers...:rolleyes:

Sixth: Added -2.5 camber to fronts... how? and you ride like this on the street... is this car your daily driver

14. Cusco rear strut bar.. Got this and I love it... I think it is the only real Strut bar sold for the Fit.. the rest attaches to the suspension top... which is a big NO NO!!... prevent shock motion.. not body flex:p

Seventh: Enkei RPF1 15s & Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 StarSpec (195/55/15) - 37 psi all around.... I have the same set-up AMAZING TIRES !!! but bump up your front psi to 42... TRUST ME!! on this one.. try 42 and then work up or down according to how much sliding (slip angle) you feel... Up for more slip and down for less.. Also the roll can help you feel that. But now with those coilovers I can see that being a issue feeling much roll.

"FitFlowjoe....45 and 35 psi....I'll mess around w/ the pressure when we get some test runs. I wanted to get a tire-temp meter to get the ideal pressure."...

Let me know how this works for you, your R&D can feed back to better lap times for both of us... And I will return the favor.. when I get a weekend off with a racing in the middle :)

The Fit has been my "money-pit" so I'm done w/ the mods for a bit. Just going to drive and enjoy now. :D[/quote]... And finally Good CALL!!!!

Here are some of the tips I have collected over the years, most of these came from Sport Compact Cars "Make it Grip" series :


Cure for the FWD Understeer:
1.Larger Rear roll bar
2.Larger tire contact patch in front aka. Larger tire in the front
3.More front tire pressure
4.Front end lower then rear end... Suspension adjusted
5.More front negative camber (-0.25* ~ -1.75*) for a street car
6.1/8” toe-out front and rear… more in front then rear
7.Inner Fender braces, Strut bars (3 point preferred), Chassis braces, Harness bars... all help
8.Roll Center adjuster -> helps with understeer and maintaining suspension geometry
9.Coil over shocks should move independent with body attachment points to maintain full shock travel
10.Mono Tube shock coil over should have hardened cases… aka solid metal construction
11.Don’t over drop the rear end watch the angle with respect to the parallel to the floor… aka the arms in torsion bars should be parallel to floor or pointing towards floor
12.Lower Control Arms must be at a 90 degree with or parallel with the floor
13.Corner weighting helps make under & over steer balanced on both sides of the car

Howzit FitFlowjoe!

Here goes...

Cheers!

I love it how both cars are three wheelin' !! so awesome :vtec:

Yeah, Tom and I were tripping out how both our cars did the same thing. haha.

I was thinking...what mod (other than changing driving tech) would've caused both rears to stay on the ground?

- LSD
- C-Pillar bar
- Lower the rears a little
- Corner-weigh the car

Just wondering...

However, I see other experienced drivers that have their car go on 3 wheels too. So maybe 3 wheeling is no big deal?

Well in reality it is not that big of a deal, b/c most FWD car that autocross or race tend to want to do this. The main reason is Weight Transfer to the front tire that the car is turning against (eg. right turn, left front tire), more logic behind this is our cars have about 62% of the weight on the front tires just standing still. Add to that Cornering forces this can go up to say 75% weight on the front, making the car practically a see-saw.

I guess a way to see this is imagine your car in a full force right turn, the front gets loaded up on weight (due to weight transfer), the front left (FL) tire takes most of the force, this force then travels up the shock and spring, compressing the front left spring displacing the car in this direction, the rest of the weight move to the left rear (LR) tire and front right (FR) tire; the rest gets transfer to the right rear (RR) side. So basically the weight (eg. force) cause the car to see-saw, making the pivot point to be between the LR and RF with most of the weight (eg. force) on the FL, hence up goes the RR… and BAM!! instant Three-Wheelin’ AutoCross Action!!

But back to the mods… The biggest suspect for this 3-wheelin’ action is the Rear Sway bar.. which basically works by transferring the loaded rear tire force (eg. Weight) to the other side… in order to plant the rear end. But due to imbalances in the forces per tire side that downward force is not enough to compensate for the upward force of weight transfer to the front and hence that RR tire goes up even higher in the air.

I guess the only real cure for this is… Is to transfer weight to the rear of the car… aka putting the gas tank back in the rear (instead of under the front seats)!! Or adding died weight to the rear (battery, subwoofer, actual iron weights, etc.)…. BUT!! This also has a negative effect since it adds weight to the car making it slower in general, even if you are using all your tires contact patches.

Mods to cure this… hmmmm tough one but I would go with:
1) Higher Spring Rates in the front, so that corner force doesn’t displace (compress front spring) the front end so much
2) Lowering the rear might work.. but that might have a negative effects on the weight transfer due to lack of weight (aka. grip) in the front
3) Installing roll center adjusters, might work… since it changes the position of the center of gravity
4) Making rear tire width smaller so it slides more instead of grips… but that could cause snap oversteer

Not sure how a LSD would fit in this. C-pillar bar doesn’t really do much, If I could get away with another bar I would use the Miracle X-Brace to tie the corners of the rear hatch together. And corner-weighting, Which I’m totally gonna do, only make the weight transfer rates even no matter which way you turn. Basically just makes there be exactly the same amount of weight side to side & diagonal to diagonal.

Enough ranting… Sorry I get carried away about this stuff, I’m a Mechanical Engineer who lives and breaths cars, I did the suspension for my schools SAE Mini Baja car.

Some three wheeling is to be expected. If it is momentary then it's not a big deal. But if it is sustained through the turn then you'd be overworking the three tires left.

Always you want as much weight on each tire as evenly as possible so that each tire is not working too hard since all tires will have the ability to stop, go, or turn but only to 100% of the tire's capability. So if you are doing hard braking you have much left traction left for turning, etc.

When one tire is off the ground you have lost that tire's contribution to help you. So the remaining tires will be doing the full job of whatever you ask.

Weight transfer is critical and with a higher center of gravity you need to be careful about driving smoothly enough to minimize body roll.

During hard braking you shift weight to the two front tires then if you turn hard you shift weight to the outside tires and lifting the rear inner tire is the result.

Even with the upgrades mentioned you'd be wise to brake earlier and smoothly enough to make sure that entry speed was appropriate for the radius of the turn so that three wheeling is kept in check- not totally eliminated but controlled to some degree. Obviously if you are really understeering you've exceeded the front tires ability to hold the road- just slow down before you turn.

Take some video of you turning hard and three wheeling and look to see how it happens. The picture only reveals a moment in time and part of the equation.

Cool! Thanks guys! That's a lot of very helpful information. Great food for thought and stuff to work on... :D

I saw the results of the 2008-2009 Hawaii SCCA Championship Runoffs from this weekend and was very happy to see that you are the new

CHAMPION.

Congrats. I knew you were every bit as good as anyone out there and it is all up to you.

Just keep working at making improvements and learn as you go.

Congrats also to 08FitSport for completing the season and pushing Raton.

Pretty soon there can be a #1-#2 finish for the Fits in STS class.

Congrats Gentlemen!!! GREAT JOB !!