Pros and Cons of KWSC vs T1R Turbo
#141
03-30-2009, 05:02 PM
cages are pricey. the cheapest thing would be like a roll bar.
miracle X bar does fit you cant use your back seats though because it mounts right where the hindge is. There is nothing great about the Spoon Roll cage
miracle X bar does fit you cant use your back seats though because it mounts right where the hindge is. There is nothing great about the Spoon Roll cage
#142
03-30-2009, 05:22 PM
oh i thought it mounted the same as the J's racing x-bar, guess not.
Although with that it looks like you wouldn't be able to get the c-pillar bar, probably not a big issue, but something to think about.
c-pillar bar with back seats or x-bar with no back seats
Although with that it looks like you wouldn't be able to get the c-pillar bar, probably not a big issue, but something to think about.
c-pillar bar with back seats or x-bar with no back seats
#144
03-30-2009, 05:42 PM
https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/fit-...-crossbar.html
#147
03-30-2009, 07:38 PM
its all about how much fab work u want to put in
x bar is not bolt on
jdm gd3 is not the same as usdm gd3 but they r both gd3
#149
03-30-2009, 08:45 PM
it pretty much is. you just need to take off your panels to drill the hole
#150
03-30-2009, 08:48 PM
They are not making any at the moment because the machine broke and NEXT is not a big company......its a mom and pop shop so your looking at a long wait before you see it.
#152
11-16-2011, 10:20 PM
The drive unit of the rotrex may be different than a conventional centrifugal supercharger such as vortech, because it uses planetary type reduction, which can be more efficient than using belts or gears but its still a linear boost delivery.
you wont make 5 psi at 3K rpm, or 5K rpm, it will make 5psi at the redline...and only then....
This turns me off about centrifugal superchargers....BUT a guy i knew modified the system a bit so it wasnt so linear.
He installed a V1 Vortech on a BMW 535i E34 engine and pullied it for 16 psi at redline. Way too much CFM for the power levels he needed.
He then installed a wastegate post Supercharger and pre MAF to bleed off excess air to 10 psi.
So he ramped up boost much faster but then it became a flat delivery...
Ofcourse that has its issues as well....one is the need for a larger supercharger for efficiency which means more parasitic losses.
Now what about a roots or screw type? instant boost at low RPM and it keeps its boost pressure all the way to redline (it might peeter off towards redline as the engine flow outpaces the superchargers delivery).
What about modifying a supercharger off one of the other cars? Mazdas or Mercedes or Mini superchargers?
you wont make 5 psi at 3K rpm, or 5K rpm, it will make 5psi at the redline...and only then....
This turns me off about centrifugal superchargers....BUT a guy i knew modified the system a bit so it wasnt so linear.
He installed a V1 Vortech on a BMW 535i E34 engine and pullied it for 16 psi at redline. Way too much CFM for the power levels he needed.
He then installed a wastegate post Supercharger and pre MAF to bleed off excess air to 10 psi.
So he ramped up boost much faster but then it became a flat delivery...
Ofcourse that has its issues as well....one is the need for a larger supercharger for efficiency which means more parasitic losses.
Now what about a roots or screw type? instant boost at low RPM and it keeps its boost pressure all the way to redline (it might peeter off towards redline as the engine flow outpaces the superchargers delivery).
What about modifying a supercharger off one of the other cars? Mazdas or Mercedes or Mini superchargers?
#153
11-17-2011, 12:10 AM
Fabbing a roots blower is fine in theory, but waaaay to much work in reality. You would need a completely custom intake manifold, brackets, pulley, etc.
What's wrong with making peak boost at peak rpm? Too much power down low just means wheel spin in first and every gear after that won't drop to that low of rpm anyway. Why shouldn't the car pull hard to redline? That doesn't mean that it doesn't have power down low also. I have a Paxton Novi 2000 on a Fox body Mustang. It may make peak boost (15 lbs) at peak rpm, but it will start scaring most people by 3000 rpm.
For me, it's either the KWSC high boost kit or a K20 conversion. Both are complete solutions.
What's wrong with making peak boost at peak rpm? Too much power down low just means wheel spin in first and every gear after that won't drop to that low of rpm anyway. Why shouldn't the car pull hard to redline? That doesn't mean that it doesn't have power down low also. I have a Paxton Novi 2000 on a Fox body Mustang. It may make peak boost (15 lbs) at peak rpm, but it will start scaring most people by 3000 rpm.
For me, it's either the KWSC high boost kit or a K20 conversion. Both are complete solutions.
#154
11-17-2011, 03:24 AM
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 4,424
Way to bump a nearly three years dead thread guys lol
Linear boost gain, like that which you get on a Rotrex style centrifugal compressor, on a motor which doesn't make a ton of torque to begin with isn't so much fun after you've been in a comparably equipped turbo car..
Setting up boost-by-gear with something like AEM Tru-Boost or a DIY system with something like an Ingersoll-Rand solenoid is easy enough that there's no reason to not go with something that has a low boost threshold.
With a positive displacement blower, you are robbing power from the crank so the efficiency of the whole system is thrown off and you need to build the engine to be more stout than you would if you just went with a properly matched compressor/turbine.
Instead of just dealing with drive pressure (which is effectively waste energy otherwise) on the hotside of the turbo you are directly robbing power from the crank to turn a pump mechanically..
If you are looking for low end grunt you would go with a posi-blower, for mid-range and top end you go with a turbo. A Centrifugal 'charger is effectively the worst of both worlds.
Even when you go the route Red Liner's buddy did and pulley down to wear the boost comes in sooner and then you just by-pass the excess.
Once you have figured out your power goals and matched the compressor to your needs, then you just find the turbine housing you need to make the boost you want as early as possible while not tapering off at the top-end.
A lot of people worry about lag but a bigger hot-side and bigger turbine wheel will make more HP per PSI anyways due to less drive pressure being required to transmit the necessary torque on the compressor side.
Which is why on my last setup even at equivalent boost levels I could outrun the stock 45mm/56mm turbo's with my 59/74. In spite of a larger relative A/R on the turbine side and it being "laggier."
It's not just about peak numbers or low-end grunt, it's about the area under the curve.
Linear boost gain, like that which you get on a Rotrex style centrifugal compressor, on a motor which doesn't make a ton of torque to begin with isn't so much fun after you've been in a comparably equipped turbo car..
Setting up boost-by-gear with something like AEM Tru-Boost or a DIY system with something like an Ingersoll-Rand solenoid is easy enough that there's no reason to not go with something that has a low boost threshold.
With a positive displacement blower, you are robbing power from the crank so the efficiency of the whole system is thrown off and you need to build the engine to be more stout than you would if you just went with a properly matched compressor/turbine.
Instead of just dealing with drive pressure (which is effectively waste energy otherwise) on the hotside of the turbo you are directly robbing power from the crank to turn a pump mechanically..
If you are looking for low end grunt you would go with a posi-blower, for mid-range and top end you go with a turbo. A Centrifugal 'charger is effectively the worst of both worlds.
Even when you go the route Red Liner's buddy did and pulley down to wear the boost comes in sooner and then you just by-pass the excess.
Once you have figured out your power goals and matched the compressor to your needs, then you just find the turbine housing you need to make the boost you want as early as possible while not tapering off at the top-end.
A lot of people worry about lag but a bigger hot-side and bigger turbine wheel will make more HP per PSI anyways due to less drive pressure being required to transmit the necessary torque on the compressor side.
Which is why on my last setup even at equivalent boost levels I could outrun the stock 45mm/56mm turbo's with my 59/74. In spite of a larger relative A/R on the turbine side and it being "laggier."
It's not just about peak numbers or low-end grunt, it's about the area under the curve.
Last edited by DiamondStarMonsters; 11-17-2011 at 03:29 AM.
#155
11-17-2011, 09:46 AM
Oh you dont have to sell the turbochargers to me DSM....lol my first car was an old Volvo 740 that i modified...by the end of it it was running T3/T4 at 20psi and eating bolt-on mustangs and swapped civics for breakfast while looking stock from the outside.
i just wanted to point out that ppl are praizing the rotrex SC like its all that and a bag of chips when in actuallity its still a centrifugal s/c, albeit a much more efficient one.
It all depends on what ppl want...My goal is fuel efficiency with a bit more grunt for passing power...I'd like that grunt in mid range so the Rotrex doesnt work for me, a positive displacement, or even the old roots style modified would be my bet if i was looking at S/C. Reason i'm shying away from turbo's is the added complexity and well...the ease of raising boost...i know myself...with the Volvo i started off saying "not gonna go past 12 psi....", go to street races and someone lines up a race for you..."ya know what, i'm just gonna bump it up 2 psi..." rince and repeat and next thing u know, you're running 20psi on the stock T3 crying mercy!!
DSM, can you do me a favour and do a quick rundown on possible ways of running fuel/ignition management.
i keep reading about hondata this and E-manage that...
thats the only thing that i'm not familiar with...back in the day, 5th injector controller and RRFPR...by todays stands thats like fixing your engine with a sledge hammer.
i just wanted to point out that ppl are praizing the rotrex SC like its all that and a bag of chips when in actuallity its still a centrifugal s/c, albeit a much more efficient one.
It all depends on what ppl want...My goal is fuel efficiency with a bit more grunt for passing power...I'd like that grunt in mid range so the Rotrex doesnt work for me, a positive displacement, or even the old roots style modified would be my bet if i was looking at S/C. Reason i'm shying away from turbo's is the added complexity and well...the ease of raising boost...i know myself...with the Volvo i started off saying "not gonna go past 12 psi....", go to street races and someone lines up a race for you..."ya know what, i'm just gonna bump it up 2 psi..." rince and repeat and next thing u know, you're running 20psi on the stock T3 crying mercy!!
DSM, can you do me a favour and do a quick rundown on possible ways of running fuel/ignition management.
i keep reading about hondata this and E-manage that...
thats the only thing that i'm not familiar with...back in the day, 5th injector controller and RRFPR...by todays stands thats like fixing your engine with a sledge hammer.
#156
11-17-2011, 10:13 AM
before replying to this thread, please read these and consider if you're saying anything new:
Fabbing a roots blower is fine in theory, but waaaay to much work in reality. You would need a completely custom intake manifold, brackets, pulley, etc.
What's wrong with making peak boost at peak rpm? Too much power down low just means wheel spin in first and every gear after that won't drop to that low of rpm anyway. Why shouldn't the car pull hard to redline? That doesn't mean that it doesn't have power down low also. I have a Paxton Novi 2000 on a Fox body Mustang. It may make peak boost (15 lbs) at peak rpm, but it will start scaring most people by 3000 rpm.
For me, it's either the KWSC high boost kit or a K20 conversion. Both are complete solutions.
What's wrong with making peak boost at peak rpm? Too much power down low just means wheel spin in first and every gear after that won't drop to that low of rpm anyway. Why shouldn't the car pull hard to redline? That doesn't mean that it doesn't have power down low also. I have a Paxton Novi 2000 on a Fox body Mustang. It may make peak boost (15 lbs) at peak rpm, but it will start scaring most people by 3000 rpm.
For me, it's either the KWSC high boost kit or a K20 conversion. Both are complete solutions.
Way to bump a nearly three years dead thread guys lol
Linear boost gain, like that which you get on a Rotrex style centrifugal compressor, on a motor which doesn't make a ton of torque to begin with isn't so much fun after you've been in a comparably equipped turbo car..
Setting up boost-by-gear with something like AEM Tru-Boost or a DIY system with something like an Ingersoll-Rand solenoid is easy enough that there's no reason to not go with something that has a low boost threshold.
With a positive displacement blower, you are robbing power from the crank so the efficiency of the whole system is thrown off and you need to build the engine to be more stout than you would if you just went with a properly matched compressor/turbine.
Instead of just dealing with drive pressure (which is effectively waste energy otherwise) on the hotside of the turbo you are directly robbing power from the crank to turn a pump mechanically..
If you are looking for low end grunt you would go with a posi-blower, for mid-range and top end you go with a turbo. A Centrifugal 'charger is effectively the worst of both worlds.
Even when you go the route Red Liner's buddy did and pulley down to wear the boost comes in sooner and then you just by-pass the excess.
Once you have figured out your power goals and matched the compressor to your needs, then you just find the turbine housing you need to make the boost you want as early as possible while not tapering off at the top-end.
A lot of people worry about lag but a bigger hot-side and bigger turbine wheel will make more HP per PSI anyways due to less drive pressure being required to transmit the necessary torque on the compressor side.
Which is why on my last setup even at equivalent boost levels I could outrun the stock 45mm/56mm turbo's with my 59/74. In spite of a larger relative A/R on the turbine side and it being "laggier."
It's not just about peak numbers or low-end grunt, it's about the area under the curve.
Linear boost gain, like that which you get on a Rotrex style centrifugal compressor, on a motor which doesn't make a ton of torque to begin with isn't so much fun after you've been in a comparably equipped turbo car..
Setting up boost-by-gear with something like AEM Tru-Boost or a DIY system with something like an Ingersoll-Rand solenoid is easy enough that there's no reason to not go with something that has a low boost threshold.
With a positive displacement blower, you are robbing power from the crank so the efficiency of the whole system is thrown off and you need to build the engine to be more stout than you would if you just went with a properly matched compressor/turbine.
Instead of just dealing with drive pressure (which is effectively waste energy otherwise) on the hotside of the turbo you are directly robbing power from the crank to turn a pump mechanically..
If you are looking for low end grunt you would go with a posi-blower, for mid-range and top end you go with a turbo. A Centrifugal 'charger is effectively the worst of both worlds.
Even when you go the route Red Liner's buddy did and pulley down to wear the boost comes in sooner and then you just by-pass the excess.
Once you have figured out your power goals and matched the compressor to your needs, then you just find the turbine housing you need to make the boost you want as early as possible while not tapering off at the top-end.
A lot of people worry about lag but a bigger hot-side and bigger turbine wheel will make more HP per PSI anyways due to less drive pressure being required to transmit the necessary torque on the compressor side.
Which is why on my last setup even at equivalent boost levels I could outrun the stock 45mm/56mm turbo's with my 59/74. In spite of a larger relative A/R on the turbine side and it being "laggier."
It's not just about peak numbers or low-end grunt, it's about the area under the curve.
#157
11-18-2011, 05:12 AM
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 4,424
Oh you dont have to sell the turbochargers to me DSM....lol my first car was an old Volvo 740 that i modified...by the end of it it was running T3/T4 at 20psi and eating bolt-on mustangs and swapped civics for breakfast while looking stock from the outside.
i just wanted to point out that ppl are praizing the rotrex SC like its all that and a bag of chips when in actuallity its still a centrifugal s/c, albeit a much more efficient one.
It all depends on what ppl want...My goal is fuel efficiency with a bit more grunt for passing power...I'd like that grunt in mid range so the Rotrex doesnt work for me, a positive displacement, or even the old roots style modified would be my bet if i was looking at S/C. Reason i'm shying away from turbo's is the added complexity and well...the ease of raising boost...i know myself...with the Volvo i started off saying "not gonna go past 12 psi....", go to street races and someone lines up a race for you..."ya know what, i'm just gonna bump it up 2 psi..." rince and repeat and next thing u know, you're running 20psi on the stock T3 crying mercy!!
DSM, can you do me a favour and do a quick rundown on possible ways of running fuel/ignition management.
i keep reading about hondata this and E-manage that...
thats the only thing that i'm not familiar with...back in the day, 5th injector controller and RRFPR...by todays stands thats like fixing your engine with a sledge hammer.
i just wanted to point out that ppl are praizing the rotrex SC like its all that and a bag of chips when in actuallity its still a centrifugal s/c, albeit a much more efficient one.
It all depends on what ppl want...My goal is fuel efficiency with a bit more grunt for passing power...I'd like that grunt in mid range so the Rotrex doesnt work for me, a positive displacement, or even the old roots style modified would be my bet if i was looking at S/C. Reason i'm shying away from turbo's is the added complexity and well...the ease of raising boost...i know myself...with the Volvo i started off saying "not gonna go past 12 psi....", go to street races and someone lines up a race for you..."ya know what, i'm just gonna bump it up 2 psi..." rince and repeat and next thing u know, you're running 20psi on the stock T3 crying mercy!!
DSM, can you do me a favour and do a quick rundown on possible ways of running fuel/ignition management.
i keep reading about hondata this and E-manage that...
thats the only thing that i'm not familiar with...back in the day, 5th injector controller and RRFPR...by todays stands thats like fixing your engine with a sledge hammer.
I'd be happy to help
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
kelsodeez
For Sale / Want To Buy / Classified Ads for USED Fit Items
234
11-15-2009 01:43 PM
YeeFit
For Sale / Want To Buy / Classified Ads for USED Fit Items
39
04-07-2009 10:22 PM
YeeFit
For Sale - Local Pickup Only
1
04-02-2009 01:47 AM
gn-it&rn-it
Fit Engine Modifications, Motor Swaps, ECU Tuning
14
04-11-2007 12:26 PM
