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-   -   even lighter batteries (https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/fit-engine-modifications-motor-swaps-ecu-tuning/80886-even-lighter-batteries.html)

devmail 01-04-2014 09:26 PM

even lighter batteries
 
So I've been researching lightweight batteries and found the popular Odyssey PC680 (15 lbs) battery and also read on here that the Braille battery is just a repackaged Deka ETX14 battery (14 lbs).

So Deka's smallest battery in that category is the ETX9 with 8AH, 120 CCA and is 6.3 lbs. I searched to see if anyone had tried this in their cars and found that a lot of Miata owners use them for DD as well as track cars. They need to be driven at least once a week in order to recharge or be hooked up to a battery tender.

Further on in the Miata discussion found here MX-5 Miata Forum - Which Light Weight Replacement Battery ? they talk about more expensive lithium based:

Ballistic Evo2 12 cell batteries (410 CCA, 15 AH, 2.5 lbs, $199, https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pr...asp?RecID=9404 )
Someone tried the 8 cell and stated it just barely started his car. Which is odd since so many stated that the ETX9 (120 CCA, 8AH) worked fine. :confused:

...and a little cheaper Shorai battery LFX14A1 (210 CCA, 14Ah, 1.88 lbs, $159.95, LFX14A1-BS12 - Shorai Lithium Batteries )

SO in summary the Shorai battery is cheaper and lighter with less CCA than the Ballistic Evo2. But they are around 13 lbs lighter than the Odyssey and less than half of the already light Deka ETX9. You get what you pay for!:wiggle:

devmail 01-04-2014 09:52 PM

And lets not forget about lighter SAE terminals for these batteries: https://p10.secure.hostingprod.com/@...roducts_id=143

13fit 01-04-2014 10:24 PM

just buy a kinetik HC600 18aH battery on ebay for $60 and call it good.

My old SVR battery is a hair bigger at 20aH and it started my car in -10 degree temps before pulling it out to toss in back once my subwoofer setup is completed.

Those kinetik batteries are plenty reliable as well

devmail 01-05-2014 11:49 AM

Kinetik HC600 is 14 lbs, good price...but no lighter than the lithiums. My goal with my car is to make it as light as possible, daily drive it with the occasional drag track use. The lithium batteries are a relatively cheap way to get weight off the front end (15+ lbs) when compared to a carbon fiber hood (5+ lbs).

13fit 01-05-2014 12:34 PM

the fact you wanna daily drive it makes it even more reasonable to just get the sub $100 batteries.

but you would get better gains by using ceramic wheel bearings

Ive seen a few mustangs online get 15-20 rwhp on just rear wheel bearing swaps alone.

My buddy up north who builds DSMs, said he gained almost 40awhp by using ceramic wheelbearings and ceramic differential bearings.


The price is high for such a minor object, but those ceramic bearings will outlast your car by years, and still offer minimal frictional losses.

Before you ask, he paid nearly $500 for 4 wheelbearings, and however many he used in the rear diff

EDIT by gains, I mean as in use on a track. not specifically power. The frictional loss reduction translates to more fun on the track!

devmail 01-05-2014 03:34 PM

It seems daily driving would be ok with the small batteries because they get recharged more often as opposed to a track only car. I guess I'll find out and post my impressions.

Those ceramic wheel bearings sound sweet, never thought about that aspect before. :)

devmail 01-10-2014 10:23 PM

The Ballistic batteries can be found even cheaper on eBay. :)

devmail 02-03-2014 01:22 PM

Just purchased a Ballistic evo2 8 cell battery and lightweight SAE terminals on eBay for around $200 Canadian. We'll see how it works.

Wanderer. 02-03-2014 02:55 PM

Yes please let us know how it goes :nod:

devmail 02-03-2014 04:11 PM

Could end up being a track only battery but if the miata guys can do it, we should be able to with our smaller 1.5L.

13fit 02-03-2014 06:07 PM

Engine size doesnt necessarily determine battery needs. Starter style (gear ratio or direct), engine compression, cam duration, and even oil clearances and thickness play a part.

I did manage to start my fit with a partially drained SVR 18Ah at about 11 volts.

This was during a hot day, so battery fatigue wasnt a big issue

devmail 03-12-2014 09:23 PM

So the 8 cell ballistic evo2 battery works! Not at first however...I needed to fully charge the battery first (may have been on the shelf for a long time) before it would start the car. So if you do buy this battery, I highly recommend buying the balance charger along with it. I'll report back with my impressions after a few days. We'll see how it fairs with the cold temperatures.

555sexydrive 03-13-2014 03:27 AM

My Braille Lithium Ion has been going strong for 18.5 months now. I at first was just going to use it for circuit days, but decided to try it daily and it has held up quite well through 2 winters now and only once did I need to charge it some and I think that had to do with the OBDII WiFi link that I was using being plugged in and it was not smart and just stayed on sucking juice. That was well over a year ago already. Even going on vacation for 2 weeks and the car just sitting, came back and it fired right up. My previous Braille AGM battery would have needed a charge being left that long.

Are those batteries you listed in the first post full lithium ion or what? Very, very cheap compared to Brailles lithium ion batteries and makes me wonder why I paid so much. :)

devmail 03-13-2014 07:26 AM

The Shorai and Ballistic batteries are both lithium. :)

devmail 03-13-2014 01:19 PM

SO I drove the car a few times today (~ 8 degrees celcius) and each time it started without fail. Drove for no more than 10 mins each time. It started with a little more delay than the stock battery (about 1 second of cranking) and the radio and dash gauges do dim a little bit. This 8 cell evo2 battery had 275 CCA...would not want to try anything with less. The good thing about these batteries as they crank is they apparently get stronger and put out more juice as they quickly warm up. I have mine sitting in the foam it was packaged in for insulation and it also fills up the large space that is left behind from removing the stock battery. Gotta figure out a secure way to mount it. Pics and more when it stops raining. :)

devmail 03-18-2014 10:24 AM

3 Attachment(s)
Here are some size comparisons to the battery that was in my car previously:

Attachment 15813

Here the battery is sitting in the foam packing that was in it's box. Coincidentally enough, it makes for a great container and insulation in the car. One piece is a little short...

Attachment 15814

...However 2 pieces are perfect. :) It sits quite snugly, but I still have to rig up some sort of battery tie down.

Attachment 15815

So more on how it works, I had to do an all day first aid course for work so the car sat outside from 8:30 - 4 pm yesterday and it was about -15 to -20 celcius with wind chill. The car took about 5 roll overs before it started but it got stronger with each successive one, not weaker. That's how these LiFE batteries work I guess.

Myxalplyx 05-04-2014 03:04 AM

Nice pics Devmail! 20lbs in savings is significant on these light cars.

devmail 05-04-2014 10:23 AM

Thanks! I've been daily driving this since I got it. Had another day where I left the car out all night ungaraged and the temperature dropped significantly. It started in the morning but needed a couple tries. This would work perfectly in warmer climates with our cars. Keeping it in our unheated but attached garage during the Canadian winter seems to keep it warm enough to function properly as well.

bensenvill 06-11-2014 04:19 AM

ok I gotta chime in because I was pretty deep in electric vehicle racing about 10 years ago. (So I make little claims on any batery developments since that time)

Those Odyssey batteries were truely the finest on the market. The SVR's were really nice and on paper seemed perfect but the Odyssey beat out them in real world use and long term durability. Reliable power to weight, they were the best at the time. I am a strong believer in them, I put a PC680 in V6 race car last year. Upon receving it from the factory and sitting for 2 years outside, it has managed to attempt to crank over my car over the past 9 months I want to say 30 different times (sorting out an issue with the fuel pump wiring) before it needed to sit on a charger.

The Odyssey PC680 is the minimum entry for lightened battery. I'll go out on a limb that for daily driver, it wont inhibit any stock car in any environment. Past that (and my limited testing of car batteries since that time), you may be making compromises to the ability to use your car. So let me take a moment to add sanity to the conversation, race or dedicated vehicles can probably get away with much less and deal with much higher maintenance. I have prototype battery systems that should be able to power my car that I personally made 10 years ago that will fit in my pocket. I do not trust them even on my track car. There is nothing worse in life than being stranded because of low voltage regardless of your car usage.

If there was enough interest, I'd love to make a dedicated PC680 conversion tray.

Myxalplyx 06-12-2014 11:24 PM


Originally Posted by bensenvill (Post 1242184)
ok I gotta chime in because I was pretty deep in electric vehicle racing about 10 years ago. (So I make little claims on any batery developments since that time)

Those Odyssey batteries were truely the finest on the market. The SVR's were really nice and on paper seemed perfect but the Odyssey beat out them in real world use and long term durability. Reliable power to weight, they were the best at the time. I am a strong believer in them, I put a PC680 in V6 race car last year. Upon receving it from the factory and sitting for 2 years outside, it has managed to attempt to crank over my car over the past 9 months I want to say 30 different times (sorting out an issue with the fuel pump wiring) before it needed to sit on a charger.

The Odyssey PC680 is the minimum entry for lightened battery. I'll go out on a limb that for daily driver, it wont inhibit any stock car in any environment. Past that (and my limited testing of car batteries since that time), you may be making compromises to the ability to use your car. So let me take a moment to add sanity to the conversation, race or dedicated vehicles can probably get away with much less and deal with much higher maintenance. I have prototype battery systems that should be able to power my car that I personally made 10 years ago that will fit in my pocket. I do not trust them even on my track car. There is nothing worse in life than being stranded because of low voltage regardless of your car usage.

If there was enough interest, I'd love to make a dedicated PC680 conversion tray.

I've been using an Odyssey PC680 battery in my RAV4 for just over a year now, without any issues. This is the V6 RAV4. Here are a couple of pics comparing it to my stock battery. The mounting orientation is laughable. I changed it right after the pic. The battery is no longer standing up that way. Even the last pic with it laying down is not how it currently sits. I have it tied down as well. :p I LOVE the battery though.

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/4...eybattery2.jpghttp://img259.imageshack.us/img259/9...battery007.jpg
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/6...ghtbattery.jpg

Thread I posted about it in --> RAV4 Lightweight Battery


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