09 Fit audio plans
 

Hey all. So I got my 09 blue Fit about a year ago and IMO the stock speakers aren't too bad! I really miss my sub woofer though.

Here's what I have around (everything is about 10 yrs old or so):
4 Boston Acoustic CX6 coaxial speakers (6.5" - 25w nom 50w peak)
1 Kenwood KAC718 mono amp (240w max 120w rated @ 4ohm)
1 JL Audio 10w0 (not sure of resistance ohm rating) plan to install it in a DIY fiberglass box similar to JCUECKER's
1 Pioneer GM-222 2 channel amp (35wx2 @ 4ohm or 50wx2 @ 2ohm)
1 Kenwood KDC-3011 head unit
Attachment 19878
Attachment 19879

Even though I really like the Kenwood HU, I'm accustomed to the ipod functionality of the stock HU and I don't have much of a budget for this project so a new HU probably isn't in the cards for me.

Here's what I'm thinking:
option 1)
- Install the coaxial speakers into the rear doors and leave the front speakers stock.
- Install the mono amp in the spare tire well and the sub using a DIY fiberglass box attached to the sidewall of the cargo area.

Option 2)
- Install coaxials in all 4 doors and leave the factory tweeters
- Install 2 channel amp into the spare tire well and carefully install the mono amp somewhere else or possibly on it's side in the spare tire well since it's long and not too wide
- Power the 2 front speakers with the amp

Option 3 (max budget $200 not including wiring)
- Install coaxials in the rear doors
- Sell the kenwood HU, both amps, sub woofer, and the other set of coaxials (maybe $150 for it all?)
- Buy a new 5 channel amp, install it in the spare tire well
- Buy a $50-$75 pair of components for the front doors
- Power everything from the 5 channel amp.

So what does everyone think? Any issues with any of those options? Of course I'm open to other options as well as long as I can keep the costs down (Like I have been thinking of swapping the JL sub for a compact one). Looking for something which will sound good, I'm really starting to crave the boom of the bass drum...

Okay new question... If I got components with a 5 channel amp (hooked up using a line converter) would there be a noticeable difference in sound quality similar to the better sound people report having after replacing the HU?

on my '12 sport i did the 2500BT and not looking back. stock speakers. sounds good enough for me.

Just replacing the HU alone makes a HUUUGE difference. It was the first thing I did and made more of a difference than when I later replaced the stock speakers, added amp and sub which of course sounds better than ever, but the HU exchange made the most dramatic difference.
The stock speakers aren't so bad with a decent HU, they can handle quite a bit of mid bass.

Thanks for the responses!

So today I did some additional contemplating... I think I am going to take your suggestions to heart and just get a new HU, then install the same coaxial speakers and sub shown in the images above. They've served me well to this point so why not?

The possible exception may be to get a set of components for the front speakers. I have that extra pioneer amp so I could do that. Of course I'm not at all sure where I would mount it though because the mono amp fits perfectly into the spare tire well!

Any suggestions on where to mount the second amp should I go that route? I would probably just run 1 power wire and have a distribution block in the rear or something.

Kenchan, I like that HU you mentioned, but a little pricey for me. I would really like to keep the ipod functionality, and if possible keep it all in the glovebox! I know a lot of HUs have USB ports in the front, but I'm not a huge fan of the cable hanging there all the time. What do you think of these?

JVC KW-R800BT - This one is slightly more and only has a 3 band EQ, but it has a rear USB port so I could keep the ipod hookup in the glovebox and keep the cables out of the way. Also has a huge thumb drive capacity.

Pioneer FH-X700BT - Costs less and has a 5 channel EQ but only a front USB...

Don't buy a HU based on EQ features. An EQ is used to compensate for vehicle acoustics. So if your car's interior causes a dip at 2k hertz of -4db's, you would then raise the 2k EQ up +4db's, basically trying to equalize all the frequencies as flat as possible. This isn't much of a reality for 3, 5 or even 15 band EQ's, especially without the tools to measure your interior acoustics. All hardware in all vehicles will sound different because of this as each curve and type of material used inside your car will effect various frequencies.
EQ's, like bass boost, is really just a marketing gimmick. Most people will over accentuate the bass and highs, causing their amps to clip not only causes more harm than good but is far from how the artist intended the music to sound. If you have a preference for more bass, there are better options available such as bass processors. Typically though you just want to leave EQ off or flat and let the amp do it's job providing you properly set the gain to match the voltage output of your HU. My amp does 75wx2 with 2.5 actual volts from HU, so my gain requirement was 17.4 volts for example. So if I then raise the EQ's, bass boost..etc. I would ruin my gain and be clipping my amp when I crank it up.

Mounting the amp in a fit doesn't leave too many options, you may have read my post asking where people mount theirs over in the 2nd gen i.c.e forum. I put mine in the passenger rear panel where the shelf is. You don't really want to put it where it looks tacky, easily seen by would be thieves or get in the way of large cargo. Rockford Fosgate has a PBR line of really small amps that should fit under the seats just fine. PUNCH Amplifiers - PBR500X1 - Rockford Fosgate®

The problem you will face if you don't swap the HU, is the fact that this is one of the OEM's units that feature a highly variable EQ built in that not only alters many various frequencies as you turn the volume, but cuts 12db's completely from 100hz down. A processor that is marketed for this kind of thing can only compensate, it's a giant EQ that cuts and raises but you can't really raise or cut what isn't there. Cleansweep can work cause you have to use a seperate knob as your volume and the HU's output stays the same but measured with RTA shows it's not flat output still. With most others, If you use HU knob, then it's altering the frequency with each adjustment and no processor will ever get you the same quality output you get from 3rd party. That's why I never recommend keeping stock less you don't care to know what your missing.

I prefer your option #3. Minus the rear speakers bit. Keep rear speakers stock, power them from rear outputs of new HU, use them only for light rear fill, passengers or don't use them at all. Most audiophiles never use them, it ruins the front stage. 5 channel amp is kinda a waste of money. You could do 3 channel (2 fronts, 1 sub) 4 channel (2 fronts, bridged sub) or seperate mono and 2 ch. amp.
The real key is in the fronts. Sound dampen doors, tweets within 8 inches of woofer, both off axis. Time alignment to adjust for distance raising that floor level and mid bass to get the location of your subs out...basically you shouldn't beable to tell where your subs are, if they sound like their behind you, it's wrong. Damping and crossover adjustment helps clarify the mid bass but some components are too bright for my taste, you could use a bass processor if your music has less than desired bass but idealy you would want the stage up front.

Costwise, just seal the doors, preferably with something that could dampen sound. Set gains properly. adjust subs output so it's not overpowering the fronts, adjust component crossover if possible, speakers off axis, don't put the tweets in factory location..worst spot ever for any tweeter, your just spaying and skewing high frequencies all over the freaking place bouncing off the windshield like that. Keep it simple and watch out for clipping if you need to boost anything.

Just leaving this info here for reference to others cause gain setting is something many people don't try to do correctly.
http://forum.realmofexcursion.com/am...al-2010-a.html

Nightscreams, thank you for your informative post! I need to read it a few times to understand it all! I appreciate you taking the time to type that out, especially given my low post count. I've been browsing the forums for quite some time but I'm typically not one to go too far off subject and I have essentially a stock fit - getting into it though.

I think I've decided to get the JVC HU I linked to above with the Scosche dash kit. I really want the rear USB run to the glovebox and I think the double DIN will really look nice and I found it for a pretty good price so it's within my budget. On that topic I purchased the materials to build the fiberglass sub enclosure in the back and while inspecting the JL 10w0 I found out that the center dust cap glue is failing on one side. That and there are some scratches on the cone as well (though no holes/punctures).

So now I'm considering replacing the sub with a shallow mount DVC 4 OHM (wired like this). The JL I have now requires .75 ft3 and has a 5.5" mounting depth. I was thinking something like this Rockford Fosgate Prime shallow 10 4ohm DVC which seems like a good deal and only needs a .5 ft3 enclosure and is only slightly more than 3" deep.

This was supposed to be the budget for my components, but sinice I'm making the fiberglass box I think I should put slightly more importance to the sub for now. I'll see what I can afford for components though - but just maybe that would be something better to save up a little more for.

I really liked the link to explain how to adjust the gain on the amp. Another one that I need to go through twice... Also I need to do more research on tweeter placement. You mention having the tweeter mounted within 8" of the woofer, wouldn't that be just like a coaxial speaker? I see some FITs have the tweeter mounted up by the door handle, that looks nice but it's probably on the order of 16-18" away from the door speaker. How much better would that be than just installing the Boston coaxials I have and then doing my best to match and balance the sound in the cabin? Hmm...

To that point, one other thing you mention is the timing. This makes perfect sense but I need to learn it from an application standpoint (i.e. is this software controlled from the HU, an amp setting, etc...). So I need to do some research on those topics still.

If all goes well I should be able to order the HU and sub today!

I have no experience with shallow subs, but that does look like a deal if not almost too good to be true but I trust RF products in general and have always liked their stuff. Let us know how it sounds.

You don't want the tweeter placed too high on the door. Higher mounting locations usually result in what's called "near side soundstage" bias which compromises stereo experience. Also any tweeter farther than 8 inches away degrades the sound quality, why exactly I'm not certain but I do know that even putting them up high or on the A pillar is not recommended for the same reason.
Lower door or kick panel provide the greatest path link distances from your ears.

This is stuff I have learned from reading and experiences i've had over the years, These methods are also described in many audio speaker manuals, I don't really know the science as to why this has to be, I just know that it is lol.
Most enthusiasts tend to recommend putting components in custom kick panels, since it's farther away, it provides a better stereo soundstage but "why" does it over speakers higher up and closer to you is a good question i'll have to ask sometime.

Car audio is complicated because of the vehicles themselves, they are terrible environments for audio. As far as time alignment that I mentioned, it can be nice to have but is only available on High end HU's or processors, like RF's 360, JBL MS8 or Audison Bitone...etc. All those processors have time alignment among other things. I wouldn't worry about it for your setup honestly, you'll be doing far, far better than stock that's for sure. The rest is mainly for the audiophiles and those trying to get "home" quality sound from their car, which is expensive and complicated to do. If you follow the general rule of thumb's for car audio however, it will be quite enjoyable to listen to.

Problem with learning car audio is you never will know it all and there is always new stuff to learn, just when I think I know what I want and how I want my audio to sound, I learn that I don't know what I want and likely never will. lol

Some pics showing the more and least desirable, should help.
[IMG]http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/683/doorsd.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/3504/42423922.jpg[/IMG]

Thanks for the diagrams! Those are helpful. Maybe some duct tape and experimenting could be in order to find a better tweeter mount location.

So I have the worst luck sometimes... I was going to order all the stuff (HU, sub, and some wiring) yesterday at lunch but for whatever dumb reason I decided to wait until much later in the evening... What do I get?

- HU is now on back order
- HU price went up $10

!!!!! So the bad news is that it's probably going to be 2 wks+ before I get to install anything and I really wanted to have it installed for a trip on the 15th... Oh well.

For now I'll be making the subwoofer enclosure and maybe I can install the speakers in the front as well. Plenty to do I suppose, a quality install definitely takes time.

As for the shallow mount sub, I've never heard one but they seem to be getting popular as there are quite a few options. Hopefully it's as good as the JL it's replacing. The JL sounded great but the big MDF box was a pain. I may try to use some epoxy or something to carefully re-seal the dust cap on it and see if maybe I can't get a few $$ for it. I'm probably not going to use it for anything at this point as it's really too deep for my application.

What do you mean by "mounted off axis"?

Not directly pointed at your ears.

Ahh okay, that makes sense. I think the stock spkrs are just pointed fwd toward your feet... I'm just starting with the Boston coaxials (actually they sound pretty good IMO).

On a side note, does anyone know how to disconnect the stock tweeters? I figure if I install coaxials with tweeters having 4 would result in too much treble.