Re: Civic Hybrid -- gas/electric usage
 

Elmo P. Shagnasty <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
> In article <dbud05$mms$1@blue.rahul.net>, dold@XReXXCivic.usenet.us.com
> wrote:
>> I get 46 overall, with 50+ at 70mph on the freeway.
>> 2003 CVT. 50,000 miles.

> A buddy of mine, on a complete lark, went and bought a used Beetle
> diesel. 47K miles on it.

> His first full tank, in town, with the AC blowing hard, was 47mpg.

The VW golf TDI was on my short list. At first I didn't think I'd like it,
remembering a VW Rabbit diesel rattling in my driveway in the 70's.
The new TDI is pretty quiet. You can hear something rattling around, but
it is a different pitch than what I remember and not obnoxious.

The smell of diesel is still there, which varies greatly from time to time
and vehicle to vehicle.

There is also a drop in MPG between 5 speed and automatic.
The EPA rating is 42 hwy with auto.
The EPA rating for highway 5 speed is 47, and the personal reports on
fueleconomy.gov indicate that the A/C might not have been the only thing
blowing hard for your friend.
The city ratings for stick and auto are 38 and 35.
The Golf suffers more in the city.
The difference is 42/34, higher stick, lower automatic.
I hadn't looked at the Beetle.

The TDI diesel was redesigned in 2004 for higher mileage than what was
available when I was shopping.

---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5

Re: Civic Hybrid -- gas/electric usage
 

In article <1122295924.649957.55210@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups. com>, "Jeff" <jrush@usa.net> wrote:

>If Honda is advertising it at 47/48 mpg, I'd like to know if something
>can be tweaked to reach that mark. Should I just sit back and say
>"well, 40 isn't too bad"? Hell no. If I'm going to pay the extra few
>grand to get the Hybrid over the standard Civic, I want a return on my
>investment.

There is no guarantee that you will get the 47/48. Those numbers
are based on standardized tests that won't necessarily be
reflective of how you drive, nor where you drive.

Having said that, it does seem that hybrids miss their EPA sticker
MPG by a higher pct than do other vehicles. And I can certainly
see why the buyer of such a car might be miffed. However, there
are reasons why a hybrid might miss by more: the hybrid power
management strategy is more highly dependent on the drive schedule
it is tweaked for than the normal transmission/vehicle strategy in
a conventional vehicle. A high mpg vehicle will be impacted more
by turning on A/C, or opening windows, or any similar since it
consumed so little fuel otherwise.

Last, consider how much extra fuel is consumed if you get "only"
40 mpg vs 48. Over 12,000 mi/yr, it would consume 50 gallons
more. A gallon/week. That's equivalent to a 24 MPG rated vehicle
only delivering 22.

I think we would benefit from the EPA's certification cycle more
closely resembing "typical" (whatever that is) driving. So that
hybrids would more likely be tweaked for, and approach, real world
MPG. So I hear your lament. But I also can see why some would
not be terribly concerned about the differences between 48
(rated) and 40 (real) mpg.

Re: Civic Hybrid -- gas/electric usage
 

In article <F_ydndRhOu29LH7fRVn-hw@speakeasy.net>,
jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>but i /hate/ diesel fuel. i hate it on my hands. i hate it on my
>clothes. i especially hate it if i get it on my shoes because it stinks
>& you can't usually throw them in the washing machine like practically
>everything else.

Well, don't be a pump slob, and use a paper towel or plastic bag to hold
the pump handle so that you don't have to touch the drippings from other
pump slobs.

I wonder how much air pollution is caused by pump slobs spilling gasoline
which quickly evaporates into air pollution. While the quick evaporation
of gasoline eliminates the evidence, the pump slob drippings often found
around diesel pumps may be an indicator of how much is spilled at the
gasoline pumps.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome.
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.

Re: Civic Hybrid -- gas/electric usage
 

In article <dc3dlq$6o5$2@blue.rahul.net>,
<dold@XReXXCivic.usenet.us.com> wrote:
>The TDI diesel was redesigned in 2004 for higher mileage than what was
>available when I was shopping.

Actually, the 2004 versions get worse EPA mileage than the 2003 versions.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome.
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.

Re: Civic Hybrid -- gas/electric usage
 

Timothy J. Lee <remove22@sonic.net> wrote:
> In article <dc3dlq$6o5$2@blue.rahul.net>,
> <dold@XReXXCivic.usenet.us.com> wrote:
>>The TDI diesel was redesigned in 2004 for higher mileage than what was
>>available when I was shopping.

> Actually, the 2004 versions get worse EPA mileage than the 2003 versions.

Hmmm... I was reading that from a brochure ;-)
I see that the mileage did drop from 2003 to 2004 according to EPA.
I wonder what real world numbers are.
edmunds.com forums are probably pretty good for that.
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef609fe/0 has lots of
opinions on Hybrid verses diesel.

Oh, that's what people meant about CARB not liking the diesel.
It's not available in California in 2004 or 2005.

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5

Re: Civic Hybrid -- gas/electric usage
 

Timothy J. Lee wrote:
> In article <F_ydndRhOu29LH7fRVn-hw@speakeasy.net>,
> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>>but i /hate/ diesel fuel. i hate it on my hands. i hate it on my
>>clothes. i especially hate it if i get it on my shoes because it stinks
>>& you can't usually throw them in the washing machine like practically
>>everything else.
>
>
> Well, don't be a pump slob, and use a paper towel or plastic bag to hold
> the pump handle so that you don't have to touch the drippings from other
> pump slobs.
>
> I wonder how much air pollution is caused by pump slobs spilling gasoline
> which quickly evaporates into air pollution. While the quick evaporation
> of gasoline eliminates the evidence, the pump slob drippings often found
> around diesel pumps may be an indicator of how much is spilled at the
> gasoline pumps.
>
with respect, i don't think you're talking from experience. i am.
diesel is on the nozzle grip from others, regardless of how i handle my
own fueling; diesel is all over the pavement, regardless of how i handle
my own fueling; and depending on nozzle condition, diesel /will/ drip.
when it drips, it gets on clothes, shoes, etc. but you'd know all this
if you'd done any fleet fueling, right?

Re: Civic Hybrid -- gas/electric usage
 

Dave wrote:
> In article <1122295924.649957.55210@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups. com>, "Jeff" <jrush@usa.net> wrote:
>
>
>>If Honda is advertising it at 47/48 mpg, I'd like to know if something
>>can be tweaked to reach that mark. Should I just sit back and say
>>"well, 40 isn't too bad"? Hell no. If I'm going to pay the extra few
>>grand to get the Hybrid over the standard Civic, I want a return on my
>>investment.
>
>
> There is no guarantee that you will get the 47/48. Those numbers
> are based on standardized tests that won't necessarily be
> reflective of how you drive, nor where you drive.
>
> Having said that, it does seem that hybrids miss their EPA sticker
> MPG by a higher pct than do other vehicles. And I can certainly
> see why the buyer of such a car might be miffed. However, there
> are reasons why a hybrid might miss by more: the hybrid power
> management strategy is more highly dependent on the drive schedule
> it is tweaked for than the normal transmission/vehicle strategy in
> a conventional vehicle. A high mpg vehicle will be impacted more
> by turning on A/C, or opening windows, or any similar since it
> consumed so little fuel otherwise.
>
> Last, consider how much extra fuel is consumed if you get "only"
> 40 mpg vs 48. Over 12,000 mi/yr, it would consume 50 gallons
> more. A gallon/week. That's equivalent to a 24 MPG rated vehicle
> only delivering 22.
>
> I think we would benefit from the EPA's certification cycle more
> closely resembing "typical" (whatever that is) driving. So that
> hybrids would more likely be tweaked for, and approach, real world
> MPG. So I hear your lament. But I also can see why some would
> not be terribly concerned about the differences between 48
> (rated) and 40 (real) mpg.

i'd be interested to know the calorific value of epa fuel compared to
standard gas that you or i buy. i say this because recently, one of my
local cheapie gas stations was bought by a big national. because the
pump colors were identical, it was a couple of fills until i noticed the
change of brand, but what i /did/ notice immediately was a very definite
change in spunkiness of the car. so i kept fueling there for a couple
of weeks, and was enjoying much improved performance, until it just as
suddenly dropped back to "normal".

now, i'm a cynic, i admit, but is it coincidence that a gas vendor, on a
big aquisition spree of all the small local independants, would supply
"extra good" gas for a couple of weeks after a purchase to keep
customers coming rather than desert to the other independant across the
street? if that's so, is it not inconceivable for gas companies to be,
er, "alert" to the need to supply higher calorie gas in the locale of
the epa test labs?

Re: Civic Hybrid -- gas/electric usage
 

In article <3cWdnSPNFqYeEnjfRVn-qA@speakeasy.net>,
jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>with respect, i don't think you're talking from experience. i am.
>diesel is on the nozzle grip from others, regardless of how i handle my
>own fueling; diesel is all over the pavement, regardless of how i handle
>my own fueling; and depending on nozzle condition, diesel /will/ drip.
>when it drips, it gets on clothes, shoes, etc. but you'd know all this
>if you'd done any fleet fueling, right?

I have fueled diesel vehicles from both "car" diesel pumps and the
larger "truck" diesel pumps without dripping diesel fuel all over the
place. With either diesel or gasoline, all one has to do is remove
the pump slowly and tilt it a bit with the end still in the fuel filler,
so that the last few drops go into the fuel tank instead of on the
ground or all over you.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome.
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.

Re: Civic Hybrid -- gas/electric usage
 

muzz wrote:

> On 21 Jul 2005 10:06:57 -0700, "Jeff" <jrush@usa.net> wrote:
>
> Good night! I've had my 2004 now for 18 months and am getting
> 32 mpg. Dealer says that's about the expected mpg - excuse me?
> I think I should get at least 40 if they advertise 48. Had the recall
> computer update done last week, but they say not to expect any
> better -
>
>
> POLL - What mpg is everyone getting on their hybrid civics?
>

Even with all the computer assistance, your driving habits still have an
effect on mileage. If you drive fast, accelerate hard, carry lots of
weight, have low tire pressure, etc. you'll get less fuel economy.

FWIW, my trusty old '87 Accord with 240,000 miles still gives me around
25mpg, in about 50/50 mixed city/highway driving... and I drive the crap
out of it.


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