User1, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you don't really know any gun people, or anyone on the political right, or any military combat vets, or any police officers. Not well enough to matter, anyway. Not well enough to know how we think. And I say 'we,' because I'm checking all of those boxes. I was in the US Army for four years in the infantry, with a 15 month tour in Iraq. I left for a local police department but stayed in the National Guard for three years at the same time, no extra deployments there. I'm a bomb tech now at the police department. I won't call myself exceptionally brave or strong or smart, because everywhere I've been there have been a lot of guys better than me, but I've been there.

I make efforts to be polite because I just want to be that kind of a person, but also because I think it helps keep debate civil in places like this. In the worst case, I suppose it would make it harder for me to get in trouble should someone ever figure out which city I work for and sift through my posts. I hope you read the entirety of the link I'm posting, because it's from someone in my general camp who is rich enough and tired enough that he doesn't give a damn about being polite anymore (I've never met him or corresponded with him in any way). This is how the worst case would go, and before you jump to conclusions, I don't want to see it happen any more than he does.

In summary, if the government comes for the public's guns, a lot of people are going to die. And the government would lose.

The 2nd Amendment is Obsolete, Says Congressman Who Wants To Nuke Omaha | Monster Hunter Nation

Sneefy, 2Rismo2, thanks for the support.

 

No need to thank me for supporting truth, my friend.

I knew the object of that article before I opened it. I'll decline to type my thoughts about Swalwell since the swear filter would just kick in hard.

I'll have to read it through later as I don't have time right now, but I will check it out. Thank you.

 

Also, I'll say that most people who decry the 2nd amendment don't understand that the 2nd amendment isn't about guns.

 

Well I'm glad we finally saw how women are biased against our transportation system. It's just when you post up something that questions the manliness of men, they come out of the woodwork! Know what I mean?

 

No, I don't know what you mean. Somehow you skipped over not explaining anything about your own opinions on the source article, not trying to counter any of my arguments about the source article, and when the discussion wandered into the self defense aspect of crime, expressed your desire to disarm the American public, many of whom swore an oath to defend the Constitution and will not quietly give up their rights or their property- and more than a few of those Americans are women.

Then you somehow seem to have declared victory. If that's the level of debate you want, I guess we're done here.

 

Since this began with an article that was basically thinly veiled misandry, reasoned debate was likely a false hope, unfortunately.

I've come to expect such dreck from the OP's oft-shared favorite blog.

 

1) Monster Hunter Nation. Hell yeah, love to link extremist alt-right websites.

2) I was raised by and around folks who check every single box you describe above. So I understand the mindset behind your posts very well, personally I went to school and studied politics, government and history; things that your posts seem to lack understanding of. Those things provide context and nuance that your posts could benefit from.

3) The built environment and cars consider men's needs/convenience before that of women's. Why are offices so cold? Men tend to prefer cooler temperatures. Who are seat belts & airbags designed for? An average sized male, even the 'female' crash test dummies are simply male dummies scaled down to an average-ish woman's height (Good thing there aren't major biological differences to consider? Oh.)

4) When was the last time you used public transportation? I live in a major American city and rode the bus yesterday, the lack of space for strollers is true. The only area with any space at all is the handicapped space & if that area is occupied a mother is completely out of luck (even then she has to get the stroller up the stairs).

5) Lack of protected bike infrastructure hurts people of all genders.

6) Walking at night is a legitimate safety concern. As men we have it much, much easier than women, in many regards but even in our basic right to safely get home at night.

All of the things in the blog shared by the OP would benefit both men & women. You guys just seem to think that equality means the diminishment of your fragile masculinity.

Ugh. Just stop it.

 

Yes, the first time was I just I did mention that I pretty support all points made by the author. Some stronger than others. I could track down that comment, but why? I did mention that I was using bike/subways (car-less) to get around the LA area for over 9 yrs. So I did know what the author was pointing out. You need more? OK, I view the author's points as being more correct than yours.

 

mike, I would welcome a debate on this or really any subject. I've been trying to have one with OP for three pages now. A debate where two or more people express their opinions, describe the reasoning behind them, possibly list some facts and quote sources to support their arguments, and even if nobody changes their opinion by the end, information has been exchanged to the benefit of all.

If you think Monster Hunter is extremist, do you also think the NRA are a terrorist organization, and the Daily Wire is a white supremacist website? I don't know if I'm putting words in your mouth or not, but a lot of people on the left seem to use those words. Whether they apply to you is a guess, not an accusation.

This isn't a research paper, though, were you expecting a bibliography or my own peer reviewed journal article? Do you want to present your own opinions in more detail? Because it's kind of odd to say I lack context and nuance in matters of government and history when what I posted already talks about the consequences of actions by local government in Seattle, the problems with the modern decriminalization movement, heck, I even included a quote by President Coolidge when I was writing about commuting and such.

I didn't go into the problems I have with the Community Reinvestment Act because it seemed off topic, would it count as context regarding the source article's complaints about zoning for you if I put a few paragraphs down about that? Did you actually read my thoughts on self defense and crime? I don't know how much more nuance you can really ask for, I touched on what I thought was the whole spectrum from "guns are scary, I won't touch them," to "I won't be a victim, I'm going to take up arms," and didn't express disdain for anyone. Again, it's not a research paper, but is there any opinion I could express disagreeing with yours that you wouldn't meet with the same criticism?

I dug three layers deeper than the OP source article to find the info on the crash they used as an example of systemic racism. I didn't post the three articles to prove it, it would make this even longer than it is, but it's all published. There's nothing stopping you from reading the same stuff, it's linked in the OP source.

I suspect you didn't really read what I posted, because your point about mass transit and strollers doesn't look like it disagrees with what I wrote about that already.

Give me some context and nuance about point 6- everything I wrote about the problems with decriminalization, the inherent human right to self defense and Constitutional right to bear arms, my opinion that nobody should be obligated to carry a gun, and other aspects to risk mitigation, is aimed at that. That's quite a few paragraphs, and right now you're at two sentences expressing generally that people should be safe- something I don't think I disagreed with.

If you haven't already, check out the Seattle is Dying presentation. I didn't link it before, but here it is- a full hour of context and nuance and real human experience. And it surely wasn't produced by Republicans.

https://komonews.com/news/local/komo...attle-is-dying

If you're just stopping by to express an opinion that I'm dumb, then mission accomplished and probably end of discussion.

OP, a debate where you say "here's a fact, and I agree with it, end of story" is no debate at all, it's you stating your opinion. Even if everything you believe in is correct in every way, it's not a debate. This is what it sounds like- and I believe you're capable of much more. If you can be bothered to take the time.

 

The NRA exists for the good of corporations that profit off of death. It is not an organization that should exist & it has absolutely helped to get school children murdered.

But as it stands for nothing other than death & money, I wouldn't call it a terrorist organization.

The Daily Wire is absolutely marketed to white supremacists. https://www.mediamatters.org/daily-w...ed-and-bigotry

Now you're just being deliberately wordy. It is possible to be concise, as well as nuanced & providing context. Good writing requires all three. No one wants to read pages upon pages of rambling, this isn't the Daily Stormer as similar as car forums probably seem.

 

Mike, it's almost like you're deliberately trying to prove the above statement true.

Or are you just so ruled by negative emotion that you can't help yourself?

*Edit*: Oh, you give hasdrubal grief for where he linked to and then you go ahead and link to an article on... Media Matters?

Good grief!

 

If all you're going to do is imply anyone who disagrees with you is a Nazi, then I guess we're done. If you were going to imply I'm a Nazi and also take some time to talk about the subject, we could possibly have a discussion. Good luck with that, and if you ever decide to engage in actual debate, I'll still be here.

 

Sadly, Godwin's law proven true again:

 

Yeah, like Ben Shapiro isn't an Orthodox Jew who advocates for all races and both genders to be treated equally under the law? He makes a pretty lousy Nazi, but I'm mixed Chinese and Japanese by blood, and I tell black crime victims to get concealed carry permits and attend city council meetings all the time so the local government can hear their concerns, so I'm pretty lousy at this Nazi business too.

 

There is no point from the author that I need to add to. I could but why? She does fairly good job on each. I guess maybe the one on hot dogging young male studs could have been better addressed. I addressed some of your digressing view points, but I don't have time chasing someone down a rabbit hole!

 

I hate quoting myself, but here is the last sentence of my very first post on this thread. "I don't want to spend that much time on it if you're just posting the link because the headline sounded interesting."

If you don't have the time or desire to get into a debate about something, then I really don't know why you gave an affirmative response as though you wanted a debate about something. Seriously, you could easily have responded with "well, I don't have much to say beyond what's already in the article, but I liked it and thought it might be useful for the Fit community."

Half of the off topic section is you posting leftist links and just letting them sit there- and there's nothing in the forum rules against that as far as I know, but in the texting/walking one immediately below this thread you used a sad face when commenting that you thought there would be a response. If all you're interested in is responses that agree with you, then I suggest you find a forum with more like-minded people to talk about these things, and keep coming here to talk about everything Fit. That's what I do, anyway. Although my chosen place to talk politics has people who are eager to argue both sides, it's not an echo chamber.

I'm going to refrain from posting right wing political articles because I don't think it will cause any useful or interesting debate here. But even after everything, if in future it looks like you're wanting a real debate about something you find interesting, I'll be happy to talk to you.

 

I linked to a link of them quoting Daily Wire podcasts. Don't want your hatespeech conveniently tossed in one location? Don't say it.

Telling black crime victims to get guns doesn't protect them from a lot of the real issues facing Americans in 2019. Being an armed, law abiding black person is dangerous too, Philando Castile is evidence of that.

Ben Shapiro has called HOLOCAUST SURVIVORS 'kapos.' He has called Obama staffers 'kapos.' Called Obama a fascist. Called PETA Nazis. Etc. Shapiro defends men who are notorious for their racism (Steve King, Bannon, etc.)

Israelis like to build. Arabs like to bomb crap and live in open sewage. This is not a difficult issue. #settlementsrock
—Ben Shapiro,

Shapiro: ‘really sick of people who whine about civilian casualties’ in Afghanistan because 'one American soldier is worth far more than an Afghan civilian'

He's also a noted transphobe.

Don't make this hill to die on, Shapiro hides behind his religious identity while twisting it to defend his vile views.

I showed the link in the OP to my gf. I noticed that this thread is ALL from a male perspective. The hyper aggressive fake macho trucks she said were bad & stupid for everyone, but otherwise generally agreed with the points presented. I'm really not sure what you guys are looking to disagree with.

If you came here to talk 'everything Fit,' you wouldn't be whining about being a cop & former soldier.

But hey, I'm only here to spread leftist politics, ignoring that I've owned Fits of multiple generations, modified & maintained them and generally am one of the most knowledgeable remaining GD/GE posters.

 

Thanks mike410b, you spent waaaaaaaaay more time that I would have dealing with this. Much appreciated for your input.