Yay another manual or cvt thread!

Since the purpose of buying the Fit for me was commuting, I wanted the transmission rated with the highest MPG. Initially I thought it would be the manual because for ages it always got a bit better than automatics. Boy was I surprised when I found the CVT was rated higher MPG than the manual in the Fit. So I bought the CVT and have been so far pleased with it. My best calculated tank has been 47 MPG.

QFT above! I would have defaulted to the manual if the gear ratios were better. I recently got the chance to drive "The Back of the Dragon" and S mode really holds the gears well through the twisties. Can't wait to go back after replacing the Firestones.

 

I am a sporty driver. All my BMWs and Porsches have been manuals, including the current 911 Turbo. I spent two weeks debating whether I should buy the 6 spd manual or the CVT. After test driving both, I thought I would have more fun with the manual. But, since there were only 1 or 2 LX manuals in modern steel metallic in town, I could not get the right price to trigger a buy. Thanks to this board, from reading articles in the internet, and watching bunch of youtube videos, I changed my mind and bought the LX with the CVT. I am so glad that I did. It is the right car for me to run around town doing errands, and taking long trips, economically. Today, I took a 200 mile trip to familiarize myself with the car. I estimated that I got over 40 mpg, and I recorded the following: 60 mph/2000 rpm, 65 mph/2200 rpm, 70 mph/2400 rpm. I calculated that at 80 mph the rpm should be 3397 using the final drive of 5.44. The final drive of the 6 spd manual is 4.62. The bigger the final drive, the lower the rpm at the same speed. So, that's why the CVT gets better gas mileage and less wear and tear on the engine.

 

It's been 10 years since Honda has been using CVT on mass production cars. Their first was the Civic HV model that easily gets 40+ MPG. I think they should have dialed in by now... hopefully.

 

CVTs been used in farm tractors since the mid-1990s (my 2010 New Holland Boomer 8N has one). Not really a new thing, but like any major subcomponent, some designs are better than others over time. I can only recall one person here report a GK CVT failure, and (whether related or not) they had gotten the car stuck in sand prior and were "rocking" between D and R to get it out.

Mine has about 48K so far and I had the reprogramming done, with no really noticeable change in performance. No other issues with it to date.

es

PS - Interesting quote from Wikipedia on CVTs:

CVTs have been used in aircraft electrical power generating systems since the 1950s and in Sports Car Club of America (SCCA) Formula 500 race cars since the early 1970s. CVTs were banned from Formula 1 in 1994 because of concerns that the best-funded teams would dominate if they managed to create a viable F1 CVT. More recently, CVT systems have been developed for go-karts and have proven to increase performance and engine life expectancy. The Tomcar range of off-road vehicles also utilizes the CVT system.

 

I suspect the farm tractor CVT is a hydrostatic transmission (at least, most are), which—while certainly continuously variable transmissions—use a completely different technology than car CVTs. (A hydrostatic transmission is a hydraulic pump that drives a hydraulic motor, one of which is a variable displacement unit.)

Snowmobiles have used a belt-based CVT for years and years. Their belts don't last any too long, in my experience, in no small part because the belt also forms the friction material for the (centrifugal) clutch. I believe many scooters use a similar system, too.

 

You are ABSOLUTELY correct that tractor's CVT is a hydrostatic type not pulleys and a belt type used on road going vehicles. Actually I don't think it's even correct to use the term CVT on the tractors. At least, it didn't say so on the brochure of my (auto trans)Bobcat tractor that I bought new a few years ago.

I have 25,000 miles on my CVT Fit and so far zero issue.
I have a friend with 2010 Honda Insight with CVT and he has over 100,000 miles and so far zero problem.
My neighbor's Toyota Prius with 160,000 miles has zero problem (but their battery died!).

More and more auto manufacturers are turning to CVT for their auto trans option, especially for non-performance, non high end & light duty vehicles. It makes a perfect sense considering all the benefits that CVT brings.
But my future fun car has to be a manual (considering something small with turbo 4-cyl like Civic Si, Focus RS,etc.).

 

Ah, I should have read more! From further research, the ag CVT is indeed hydraulic, but it's also different from a hydrostatic transmission. Here's one explanation I found:

"From what I understand about the NH CVT system in the Boomer tractors, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, they are still fully operated by hydraulics. The fluid pushes open a swash plate to drive the gears, and the opening is controlled by throttle position. So, the more throttle, the more fluid pushing the swash plate open."

es

 

It should not be a matter of pro/con on the CVT and Manual 6 speed. It is a matter of choice, a choice that is dwindling. Is the CVT worth the $800s? In matter of performance, convenience, noise reduction, engine wear? It's up to the customer. Me? As an old geezer, I just like manual transmissions. All of the Hondas I've owned have had have been either 4, 5 and now 6 speed manuals.

 

Fully agree with KentFinn, other than the fact that is our first Honda.....have had many cars over 40 years, only ones that truly satisfied have been manuals .....and as far as automatics, I prefer an actual geared auto to a CVT, but...that's just me ....prepare for the future of autonomous automobiles, they're prying this stick outta my hands by government decree, which may well happen, at some point. Fuck self driving cars!!!

 

And every time I drive my 'geared auto' Honda Odyssey I'm reminded why I happen to hate the conventional automatic gear changes and prefer the smoother CVT acceleration.

If I could flick gear changes like a semi-auto DSG, I'd be ok with a geared automatic. And I'd also be happy with the Fit 6sp MT around town.

 

I might be an old geezer like you, but I'm smart one. All my BMWs and Porsches were/are manual. In the end I bought the CVT over the 6 spd because it provides higher gas economy, operates the engine at a lower rpm to reduce engine wear, and lower noise level from the engine at highway speed. Lastly, my left foot is relaxed as is my right hand. In the old days, people bought manuals because they got better gas mileage on their economy cars, but not anymore. The CVT wins over the 6 spd as far as economy goes. The Honda Fit was designed as a cheap utility car. Take it for what it is and you will be happy. It has abundant amount of room for those shopping trips, and it gets great gas economy for long trips for one or two people. That's why 99% of the Fits are fitted with the CVT. I test drove a 6 spd manual and found that it wasn't fun, it was work! Just because it has a manual doesn't make it a sporty fun car when the suspension and the steering feel like a heavy bloated Buick. The Fit is not a sporty car, not even close. Have you seen a Honda Fit at an autoX negotiating a sharp turn? The inside rear wheel lifts off the ground just like most other front wheel driven cars. Check out the attached photo showing the inside rear tire of the 2nd generation Fit. It is off the ground. I'm the photographer for both Porsche and BMW local autoX events. You lose steering control when the wheels are not planted to the ground! And, I read that the 2nd generation Fit was much "sportier" than the 3rd current generation, which has a softer suspension. BTW, the driver is a member of this forum. He's going to get upset with me. You bought the wrong car if you wanted the Fit to be sporty as with C&D who bashed their 2015 EX with the 6 spd manual long term test car because it was not sporty enough. Finally, it's OK if you just like a manual.

 

Hey, there's my first gen! Which had the "stiffest" stock suspension of them all... Those springs and shocks are long gone though.

Technically, no... The Fit/Jazz has had a CVT option since its introduction GD in 2001. The US and Canada markets didn't receive it until the GK was released. But on the other hand, US and Canada were the only markets to get automatic transmissions if I recall correctly.

 

if the GK was my only car I would get a MT. I like driving cars and AT's are just too boring to drive, if for fun.. this includes planetary gear AT, CVT, and dual clutch.

I had high hopes for the DSG in my GTI, but meh.. acceptable for the commute since I wear dress shoes to work, but not acceptable as a hobby car.

 

Old geezer like me? If you haven't passed into your 8th decade, geezer doesn't apply ... 76 years, one month.

But I'm so glad to have your approval in my choice of cars/transmissions.
I don't choose cars on either C&D or Consumer Reports.

 

Thank you! (Sarcastically of course). 68 here. My car, Porsche 911 Turbo, 6 spd manual. The Fit is just an appliance for me so the CVT will do just fine. If you want a manual that's fine with me too.

 

You obviously have a lot more disposable income than I. So a car, per CR, is always an appliance, like a fridge, stove, water heater. C&D's defining point is the fun or sport factor. A car for me has to be a reasonably priced combination. The EX Fit 6MT meets MY criteria ... only car, and only driver. Part of my rationale for the 6 speed was my daughter cannot borrow it. Tried to teacher her how to drive a manual shift (4 speed Civic) as hard as I could.

 

One day, when I pass through TN, I have to look you up. We'll see which one is faster 0-60, CVT or your 6 spd manual.

 

If we do the old Monte Carlo start, you win automatically (no pun intended). From a dead start drag strip style, maybe.

But don't forget, Tex, there would be no Texas if it weren't for Tennessee

Madison is a bedroom suburb NE of Nashville, still in Davidson Co.

 

Would you rather drive a fast car slow, or a slow car fast? I've had a fast car, you can't use all of its potential on the streets, not even half, there's no way in hell.

My Passion Berry Pearl is plenty sporty with a manual, just ask the owner of the BMW who I stuffed in a corner last night. Throwing the Fit around is the best fun, and the engine makes some great noises.

I can't stop smiling when I drive my Fit.

 

The first Honda I owned with CVT was a 250cc Helix scooter. I'd ride it to medical appointments that were 200 miles round trip rather than take my R-1100 GS BMW motorcycle.. I bought a VW Passat Wagon with CVT that was totalled by a hit and run driver and replaced with a 2005 Audi A6, also with CVT.. My wife was wanting a new Outback but didn't want to drive a car that wasn't equipped with a manual transmission but a short drive in the VW wagon convinced her that CVT was a good thing.. Our Kubota tractor and a couple of motorcycles are the only vehicles here that have clutches.