AT Paddle usage

[TCMIV]

I want to start a thread for people to post about their usage (if any) of their AT paddles in order to improve fuel economy.

Some people advocate using the shift paddles in the Sport AT models to improve fuel economy (this guy at The Auto Channel writes about his use of paddles to improve FE). Some argue that any improvement achieved over leaving the AT alone is minimal at best and not worth the potential extra stress on the AT and the engine.

So please post the following information and vote in the poll:
1. Do you use the AT paddles to improve fuel economy?
2. If not, why not? Because It's too much work? Because you don't believe it helps FE? Because it increases stress on the transmission and/or the engine?
3. If you do:
a. Have you noticed any improvement?
b. What kind of shifting pattern do you use during a normal start from 0 on normal flat road? (ie, at what speed and RPM do you engage a specific gear?)
c. Do you think the techniques you use adversely affect your transmission and/or your engine?
4. Do you have a GD (MY2007-2008) or GE (MY2009)? In case there are significant differences.
5. Do you use hypermiling techniques and if so which ones?

Note: feel free to comment on others' responses (needless to say), but please focus on the usage pattern without bashing/hating/flaming the posters!

[TCMIV]

I'll start us off:
1. I use the AT paddles in an attempt to improve fuel economy.
3a. I started out driving without using paddles and now I do. FE has gone up over the same period (from just under 30MPG to pretty consistent 31-33MPG, many short trips), but I'd attribute the difference to break-in and familiarity with the car. For all I know all this shifting could be lugging the engine losing FE for me.
3b. When I can afford a slow acceleration from zero:
1st to 2nd: 1700-1800RPM (holding the throttle steady, engine usually goes up to 1900RPM before the shift is complete. This shift is a little rough, but I find it smoother than letting the AT shift itself around 2000-2100RPM.)
2nd to 3rd: 1800-1900RPM (this shift is smooth when I do it right)
3rd to 4th: 1700RPM, 21MPH (this shift is very smooth, barely noticeable)
4th to 5th: 1700RPM, 31MPH (again completely smooth)
(All done in D mode)

There is a road I use a lot which has smooth traffic and a speed limit of 25MPH. Most cars travel at 29-33MPH. When conditions allow, I'd use S mode and use 5th to cruise between 26 and 30MPH. In D mode the gearbox doesn't seem to allow me to engage 5th until I'm a bit over 30MPH. And quickly drops down to 4th whenever it has an opportunity.

When I need faster acceleration (high way on-ramp, merging, don't want to slow down traffic at a busy intersection, etc.) I just leave the AT alone.

3c.
I try not to "lug the engine" but I am not sure how I'm doing. Any comments on whether my shifting pattern is hurting the engine or hurting the fuel economy?

Unless I plan ahead perfect, the transmission certainly performs more shifts. Like I shift up to 5th at 31MPH and then need to slow down because of a light change. Whereas the AT left alone would still be at 4th (one fewer upshift and one fewer downshift). Certainly, there is also more torque stress for the engine to overcome when I shift up at lower speed. Any comments on whether this is bad enough for the transmission and/or the engine that I should leave the AT alone?

Once in a while I'd mess up on the 2nd to 3rd shift. Somehow the 1st to 2nd shift seems to take a little while to "settle down" (for RPM to drop). Sometimes I'd mistakenly shift up to 3rd before the 1st to 2nd shift "settled down" and effectively skip 2nd gear. In this case I definitely feel the engine lugging and this can't be good. But I've learned to avoid this.

4. I have a 2009 Fit Sport AT w/o navi. (GE08)
5. Other than accelerating slowly when I can and timing the lights (quite poorly at this point) I don't use any special techniques. No drafting, FAS, P&G, etc

[keepitpg]

1. Do you use the AT paddles to improve fuel economy?
yes i try..
2. If not, why not? Because It's too much work? Because you don't believe it helps FE? Because it increases stress on the transmission and/or the engine?
i do when coasting, or driving on the open highway
3. If you do:
a. Have you noticed any improvement?\
on the highway yes, keeping the car in 5th gear going up a shallow hill instead of downshifting to 4th improves mpg.
b. What kind of shifting pattern do you use during a normal start from 0 on normal flat road? (ie, at what speed and RPM do you engage a specific gear?)
i dont use it to accelerate because ive found that the most efficient way is to leave it on D
c. Do you think the techniques you use adversely affect your transmission and/or your engine?
if you shift too early, you hurt the mpg because you put an excess load on the engine
4. Do you have a GD (MY2007-2008) or GE (MY2009)? In case there are significant differences.
'08 GD3
5. Do you use hypermiling techniques and if so which ones?
no i have a lead foot

[Hootie]

At the points you shift at I think your just going to bog your car out. Try revving it just a little higher like around 2.5k to 3k.

1. Do you use the AT paddles to improve fuel economy?

Yes.

3. If you do:
a. Have you noticed any improvement?
b. What kind of shifting pattern do you use during a normal start from 0 on normal flat road? (ie, at what speed and RPM do you engage a specific gear?)
c. Do you think the techniques you use adversely affect your transmission and/or your engine?
4. Do you have a GD (MY2007-2008) or GE (MY2009)? In case there are significant differences.
5. Do you use hypermiling techniques and if so which ones?

A) Yes, I can actually skip gears with the trans if its needed. Example: Passing a slow car doing 25 in a 40. From 5th gear click the neg. paddle twice and hold the trans goes into 2nd, pass, click pos. paddle twice and hold again and the trans up shifts back into 5th.

B) I typically start in 2nd gear at a dead stop accelerate till 2.5k RPMs then shift, repeat for next gears. If from a roll and I can't get into 2nd in time I stay in 1st till 3-3.5k then skip to 3rd if I'm under 21 MPH.

C) I've used my paddles every time I drive the Fit and have done so for 12,400+ miles; not a problem so far.

D) GD3; transmission gear ratios are slightly different.

E) I use a few, but nothing too drastic. First and foremost check your tire pressure. Coast as much as possible if there is very little to no traffic. Drive with the windows down or cracked if your under 60; crack or closed above that speed with the vent on fresh air and fans going at 60-70MPH. And if your 70+MPH A/C on and windows closed up unless you can take the heat.

[Interstate526]

i don't have them. but if i did, i probably wouldn't use them much. My mom has an 08 miata, and it has them, but i don't use them that much. I like "real" shifting on an mt and if it's AT, just mash it!

[TCMIV]

Originally Posted by Hootie

At the points you shift at I think your just going to bog your car out. Try revving it just a little higher like around 2.5k to 3k. [IMG]file:///C:/Users/JYEKao/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-34.jpg[/img][IMG]file:///C:/Users/JYEKao/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-35.jpg[/img]

Thanks, Hootie. Thing is though, when I accelerate slowly, the RPM barely breaks 2k when I stay in D mode and leave the AT alone.
On my way home today I observe: 1st-2nd: 2-2.1k, the rest: 1.9-2k.
I guess maybe I should just leave it alone huh?
I could also experiment with auto S mode or manual S mode and see if forcing HIGHER shift points give me better results. Anyone experimented with this?

Originally Posted by Hootie

B) I typically start in 2nd gear at a dead stop accelerate till 2.5k RPMs then shift, repeat for next gears. If from a roll and I can't get into 2nd in time I stay in 1st till 3-3.5k then skip to 3rd if I'm under 21 MPH.

That's interesting. Why do you start in 2nd gear? And why do you skip to 3rd if you start off in 1st?
Better FE? Less shifting effort on your part?

[Hootie]

In auto S mode the trans will just shift at higher points, it is not good for fuel economy. The last I've tried the I was doing 60 in 3rd gear and then I up shifted it myself. Also, starting in 2nd can yield a better FE so long as you don't add too much throttle. Just add enough to get you going and you'll be good, too much will result in forced VTEC. (Which can happen around 2400RPMS)

The reason I start in 2nd is because I don't have to be ready to shift right after I start off (especially while turning), another reason is because the shift into can be a bit jerky at times when the gear is engaging. The only time I skip from 1st to 3rd is whenever I'm creeping in the turning lane to a light and preparing to stop and then it suddenly turns green.

[Shaggs2Dope]

i havent really tried too much, Regular D is programmed by honda for mixed driving. Sometimes I have used the paddles for economy, and I got maybe 2 more mpg than normal, thats about it. I usually shift near 3k though, I can't drive super slow. I usually just pop it to S to get up to my cruising speed, and then pop it up to 5th and put it back in drive and set the cruise. Short onramps mean flooring it and carrying as much speed as possible.

If I am using the paddles its not usually to save gas though, its to hold it in 2nd and 3rd through some twistys, or to slow my car down with a cop behind me without touching the brakes

[tdesi420]

I do not use the paddle shifters at all to improve FE. I only use them to do the exact opposite. If i wanna accelerate faster on the highways or for engine braking going down a hill.

[TOOL]

I have before and gotten over 36mpg mostly city a little highway, using all paddles. Im sure in D that number would be more like 32-33mpg.. Shift at like 2500rpm, and really light throttle input.
Usually i use S when im running a caynyon or getting on the highway though, its to hard to resist revving in S mode. At least for me lol.

[CBX]

Originally Posted by Shaggs2Dope

... If I am using the paddles its not usually to save gas though, its to hold it in 2nd and 3rd through some twistys, or to slow my car down with a cop behind me without touching the brakes

This sounds familiar to me.

I also have a steep uphill driveway, and often use a paddle to drop it to first for the climb. I do often drop a gear on a pretty steep freeway uphill stretch.

I think Honda has pretty much sorted out the shift points for econemy, without my intervention.

[Shaggs2Dope]

going up to tahoe the sport mode is totally needed, or driving hwy1 or twisty backroads. I play like a game with the fit, its called, "don't touch the brakes" and I have gotten killer mileage like that. Only use the motor to slow you down, and carry momentum on a downhill ramp up some speed before uphills. I did a beach run using sport mode and got 36-37mpg. Most of the time like 50-55 and lots of tight twisties down to even 10-15 mph turns. My accord 5 speed 4 banger actually gets better mileage than my fit when I am not flogging it, especially hwy1 rides. I drive my cars like my motorcycle, all engine/gearbox, brakes only when really necessary

[CBX]

Reminds me of the Muir Woods/Mt. Tamalpais area... not to mention the Toiga!

I need to take a trip.

[Shaggs2Dope]

im a lil north of that, but its fun to ride up my area from Mt.Tam especially if you go all the way to skaggs springs and come back that way, killer ride or drive. I used to work in Corte Madera til economy took a shit and I got laid off. So if traffic was crappy and roads were stuck, I would cruise up Hwy1 and enjoy the scenic windy route

[TCMIV]

Originally Posted by Shaggs2Dope

i havent really tried too much, Regular D is programmed by honda for mixed driving. Sometimes I have used the paddles for economy, and I got maybe 2 more mpg than normal, thats about it. I usually shift near 3k though, I can't drive super slow. I usually just pop it to S to get up to my cruising speed, and then pop it up to 5th and put it back in drive and set the cruise. Short onramps mean flooring it and carrying as much speed as possible.

Hey Shaggs2Dope, you may want to check out this article [link] (search for string: Undocumented). This guy says using cruise with S can be more efficient. I haven't thoroughly tested it but from my limited observation what he says seems to be true.

If I'm already at D at cruising speed, I don't usually switch to S just for that. But if you're already at S, maybe?

[Shaggs2Dope]

same thing as a regular early shift on a stick. If the car sees a load it will leave the power gear on until you lift from the pedal. Even in D you can upshift early, but I have had the car shift right after I used the paddles to what it wanted. To optimize it you have to leave it in Manual mode, just shift earlier, keeps your revs down. Anytime I hit extended downhills I leave it in sport 5 until I need to scrub some speed, you save a TON of gas.

My best mileage has been mixed driving on sport mode on coast runs. What I need to cut back on is speeding. Drag makes more of a difference than anything.

[ToFit2Quit]

Originally Posted by TCMIV

So please post the following information and vote in the poll:
1. Do you use the AT paddles to improve fuel economy?
2. If not, why not? Because It's too much work? Because you don't believe it helps FE? Because it increases stress on the transmission and/or the engine?
3. If you do:
a. Have you noticed any improvement?
b. What kind of shifting pattern do you use during a normal start from 0 on normal flat road? (ie, at what speed and RPM do you engage a specific gear?)
c. Do you think the techniques you use adversely affect your transmission and/or your engine?
4. Do you have a GD (MY2007-2008) or GE (MY2009)? In case there are significant differences.
5. Do you use hypermiling techniques and if so which ones?

1. Yes
2. The engine likes to rev up to 4K on turning with the gas lightly depressed on AT. I like to keep the rev low near 2,500 just to cruise.
3a. It depends on how hard I press the gas.
b. I just watch my RPM meter rev up slowly and when it revs near 3K, I come close to letting go of the gas while shifting up. Then shift up when coasting to avoid engine braking. And gear down when engine speed hits 1.5K.
c. doesn't seem like it's puting a strain on the toque converter as long as I keep the RPM speed near 2,500 RPM. But at 4000 RPM, I can feel the strain on the torque converter. A slight jump in torque can be felt and I can hear the gear shifting.
4. I got a GD3.
5. No really drastic hypermiling technique. Just timing red lights and letting go of the gas early before stopping. Also, never accerating faster than the guy in front of me unless I intend to pass.

Comments:
Best recorded so far is 28 mpg city, 35 mpg hwy. It might've changed because I haven't been logging recently. Worse so far 22 mpg city, 28 mpg hwy...

[ken_vs_ryu]

its a lot of work for city driving. and the indicator will say M3 but it's really on 2.

[ken_vs_ryu]

Originally Posted by TOOL

I have before and gotten over 36mpg mostly city a little highway, using all paddles. Im sure in D that number would be more like 32-33mpg.. Shift at like 2500rpm, and really light throttle input.
Usually i use S when im running a caynyon or getting on the highway though, its to hard to resist revving in S mode. At least for me lol.

this.

below 2000 and the engine doesn't like it.

[JDMxGE8]

I tend to get a higher MPG when I'm in D. When I'm on S, I usually upshift at a higher RPM than in D mode.