Hi everyone! I have a 2013 manual Honda Fit with ~80k miles on it. I was driving today, heard a pop, and what sounded like muted truck air breaks. I realized 2sec later it was my car. I immediately pulled off into a parking lot and cut the car off. Like, I drove it 25-50yrds to the first turn-off. Anyway..

I had it towed to a shop nearby for a diag. They found one of the plugs blew out and "caused irreparable damage to the cylinder head" and will send me a quote in the morning, but said "it could cost up to $4.5k". Hopefully they can give me more info on what happened as well but we'll see.

Good news: I have a lot of mechanical experience and all the tools I need except for the special crank wrench (which I read I can rent from O'Reilly's probably) to replace the head myself. I've done a valve refresh on a Ford Ranger and a top-end rebuild on a MK4 VW 1.8t GTI I used to own, for example. And there's a couple salvage yards nearby, one I know has at least one gen 2 Fit on the lot because I've pulled interior parts from it before. I can buy an entire head for $50ish. Helicoil could be an option as well, but I'm not sure about the extent of the damage.

Bad news: I live in an apartment building with a parking garage, and my spot is on the 4th floor between two cars. I can't work on it here. And for all I know that cylinder itself is hosed. I don't know if any debris got down into the cylinder area. And I don't have nearly $4.5k in savings.

Question to y'all: I've been reading some people have luck getting Honda to replace the head or at least cover a significant amount of the bill. Has anyone had any experience, good or bad, with that route?

I bought the car used from a car lot halfway across the states, in a city I used to live in. Sadly I'm about $600 away from paying off the $10k loan, I was excited to have it paid off and free up the car payment money so I could save it.
Thanks for reading!


Edit: oh and I just had an oil change done 2 days ago by a Grease Monkey shop. It's very coincidental timing... but the techs were super chill and I have no reason to believe they would touch the plugs. And I'm not about to be the customer that gets an oil change, the car happens to blow up for an unrelated reason days later, and I blame them. I know that's not the way things work, since I've been on the tech side of things a lot in the past.

 

Bummer! Maybe you can find another shop willing to helicoil it? Can you try to get a photo down the spark plug hole to see how bad it's actually damaged?

 

I'm guessing it was cyl 2 or 3. They seem to be the worst. Anyhow, in late Dec my 2013, with about 65K, was smelling fumes in the car for a few days, then an engine light came on. I drove home (about 1 mile) and checked the code. Pointed me to ignition coils. I checked spark plugs. Plug number 3 was very loose and 2 was slightly loose. I got lucky--I tightened them up and got a new ignition coil for 3 (since it didn't look good --it might have been fine but I didn't check or clean it up - too cold in around here late Dec, early Jan). Planning on replacing plugs (and adjusting valves) soon now that the weather has warmed up.

Just wondering. Your plug just popped, no engine light or misfire code, no smelling of gas fumes, etc?

 

By the way, to get to spark plugs, you either need to remove the cowl of the car ( a lot of work) or sneak your hand in back of engine and work by touch (i.e you can not see it) with short socket wrenches and open end wrenches to remove ignition coils and plugs. I can assure you, your oil change guys did not touch your spark plugs.

 

Sorry for the double post.

I called the shop this morning, spoke to the owner, and asked if I could swing by at some point and check out the boroscope myself, and ask a few questions. He said sure, but.... the cylinder walls are trashed. He said they successfully vacuumed out all of the debris and without me asking, he said they were hoping they could helicoil it for $100 for me. But when they saw the cylinder wall damage, that was off the table. I also can't help but wonder if that pitted or damaged the piston itself. I imagine the aluminum walls would give before the piston itself is damaged but I don't know. He said I can stop by Saturday morning first thing and check out the scope myself.

Edit: At this point, instead of considering buying a head from a salvage yard near my apartment and doing the work myself (I hit up a car friend to see if he knows of a place I could park the car for 1-2wks and replace the head, Tbelt, HG, etc.. myself), I looked up their inventory and found they have 4 GE's in the yard. '07, '09, '10, and '11. It's only $250 for a full engine with ACC and a 30 day warranty. I could pull that myself with a free engine hoist they lend, transport the engine in a rented Homedepot van, and have the shop install it. It seems like a better gamble than having the shop do a tear down and finding the valves are also f****ed up and other issues potentially popping up after the repair.

If I went this route, obviously I'd go to the yard and do as thorough of an inspection as I could and see what info I could get on the car. I'd avoid buying an engine off a car that wasn't bodily damaged, because that'd mean it was probably engine failure. But I could also check oil color/quality from the pan, check out the plugs, check out under the VC, and maybe even borrow a battery and see if I could start it.

It's unfortunate this happened now because I was going to trade my Fit in to a dealership, for a vehicle with more ground clearance and 4WD/AWD, at the end of this summer.


edit2: Aw man, I clicked the edit button on my post from this morning but it somehow overwrote my post before it last night and merged the two. I replied to all of you helpful guys last night. Sorry that’s lost. JDfit, one thing I wrote in my reply was along the lines of: I heard the subtle pop, the not-so-subtle misfiring that followed, I whipped into a parking lot and parked it less than 50yds driven total after the plug popped, and there were strong gas fumes when I opened the hood after cutting it off but no smoke. And the CEL was flashing, which is why I was so quick to park it.

 

Dang. I had good luck contacting the Honda Corporate offices about an out of warranty assistance. They recommended that I have my local dealership start that process and the factory covered about 60% of a $1000 repair bill for a busted motor mount that took out the timing chain cover. Took my bill from about $1k to $400 there 'bouts.

I would think that if the spark plugs were original, they might do it. If the plugs were changed, they may have been over torqued and thus less likely that they will help.

 

Your most recent plan sounds pretty darn solid. It sounds frustrating having to bring everything to the yard but I can't argue with the price!

It sucks to hear that the cylinder is damaged.. I've dealt with ejection on a gm 3.1 60° v6, and the cylinder was fine. Its timing chain even popped later and a valve hit a piston. The cylinder was still fine (though the head lost a small chunk of cast aluminum externally and cracked from the valve seat down to the deck.)

Oh, would yuh care to log your specifics in this here spark plug poll thread?

 

Oh nice! I’m going to see what Honda can do for me but regardless, I’m glad that worked out for you! I contacted the shop my car’s at and asked which cyl it happened to and a couple other questions. I’ve been reading on FitFreak that this happens on cyl 2&3 usually. So if my cyl is one of those, that should help my case. Waiting to hear if the plugs are oem or aftermarket. I appreciate your input.

Wow! Well if your head was damaged that bad, my piston had a good chance of being healthy it sounds like. Thanks for the info. And yeah honestly taking my tools to the yard is fine if there’s even a chance I can get a decent engine. We’ll see! I’ll check it out this weekend.

Oh and definitely! I’ll contribute to that thread before the weekend is out, when I have all the info on my car’s situation.


I don’t have photos of the head itself but they sent a photo of the plug. The coil pack is messeddd up.

 

I've never heard of the plug ejection causing cylinder wall damage. The threads should have blown out with the plug.

I'd put a thread insert in the hole and change the plugs before going to any greater lengths.

 

Thanks! You’re correct. I called and spoke the the shop owner (an OG tech) and he told me he could still see the cross hatching in the cylinder walls and both he and his master tech are confident the block is totally fine. All damage is limited to the cylinder head. I’m not quite sure what sort of damage he’s referring to, I haven’t seen that part myself. But since the cylinder walls are fine, I’m 100% comfortable doing the work myself. Oh and like you said, and can see in that pic, the plug threads look relatively fine (color aside), so pretty sure yeah the head plug threads just blew out.

A buddy has a spot for me to park the car and I’m going to tow it there, and check out the cylinder head myself. I’m going to hold off on a full engine replacement since that’s way too much work consider the limited damage. Worst case scenario at this point is I buy a cylinder head from the salvage yard for $50, take it to get machined if needed, replace all gaskets between the valve cover and the block (a top end refresh), and I should be good. Assuming valves and compression are fine. There’s 4 GE’s at the yard and I’d bet at least one has a head without leaks. I remember one GE there was side-swiped.

But I digress.. I’d love to try an insert before even jumping to that route ^ but two things.
1) I don’t know how I could tap/insert for the plug without pulling the head, to avoid debris falling into the cylinder itself?
2) I’m not sure if there’s any valve damage since I don’t know the extent of the damage.

If I have to pull the head in the end, I’m very familiar working with the TDC and timing. So I’m not stressed about it. It’s just a matter of time and the least expensive route.

 

Glad to hear the destroyed cylinder diagnosis was thrown out!

Some dudes here seem comfortable with heli-coil stuff, threaded sleeve inserts.. On the engine I mentioned, my first time trying, I overshot and cut a valve slightly trying to drill out for the insert with the head still on. Yikes. that said, it worked until the chain snapped due to crumbling timing guides. I don't really like that sleeves are held in by silicone and a knurled outer wall.. but dudes run it, I ran it, and it worked.

If I were doing it again, I'd take the head off and get a replacement, take that to a machinist and get it cleaned up. The one out here quoted me at $100 for a 4 cyl if I pull cam/s and have it all disassembled. not sure if that'd include lapping valves or whatever. Honestly I don't know if lapping valves is out of date now as I think modern valves have a.. what's it called. they're not ground down quite enough and are supposed to smash into fitment as a result of the engine's normal operation.

Just my .02, If you're uncomfortable with doing a sleeve/heli-coil, I wouldn't recommend doing it.

Edit: oh, as for debris in the cylinder, compressed air and a strong squint would probably be the ideal route for clearing. Some say grease to make debris stick to the tap, but then if any fall they won't blow out.. Having a scope to check the cylinder would be ideal.

 

Thanks, Pyts! I've done lots of helicoils but always externally on engines. I've never had to try and keep shavings from falling into an engine in any way. The tips about compressed air and the grease are both great, thank you for that. I'm parking the car on the street near my apt for a week or two and then trailer'ing it to my buddy's shop. He's got a compressed air tank so that would be totally doable. Also... knicking a valve and it still running for that long is amazing. Too funny but I'm glad it lasted so long afterwards on you!

Although, the cam seal is leaking per the shop so I might as well pull the head and/or replace it as well, since I'll be so far down anyway. I haven't looked up the full steps for just the cam seal, but I imagine I've gotta remove the camshaft to get to it. And yeah haha when I think of getting a head machined, I instantly think of valve lapping. But all the cars/trucks/bikes I've worked on have been 2005 or older, so I wasn't thinking about valve lapping possibly being out of date. I'll have to call a shop and get a quote for getting a head cleaned up from one of our 1.5 GE Fit engines so I have a better idea. Thanks for the tip.

Y'all have been great, thank you! I'll be sure to update this thread with end results.


Edit/update: I just went by the shop, I got to check out the boroscope myself. The plug threads in the head still even look amazing. There's one thread, about 4-5 threads from the bottom, that's a little goofy (protruding ever so slightly). I was expecting way worse. I'm not sure how the plug blew out while leaving the head and plug threads both looking okay. Even the piston itself has very little carbon build-up, and there's no debris in the cylinder at all. At this point, I may just try threading a new plug in. Worse case scenario I pull the head and helicoil it. If I do the latter, I'll replace the leaking cam seal. But if a new plug threads in fine, I may not worry about the seal since I'm trading the Fit in this fall.
This was a big relief to see. whew

 

I would definitely put a plug in and see if it holds. It is possible that the plug unthreaded and ejected and didn't damage the threads at all. What you may be seeing is just poor factory machining. Since you are considering head removal as a possible final solution, consider using ultra high temp threadlocker on the plug. It may never want to come back out, but might buy you 90k miles.

For whatever reason, GD Fit's have a bit of an issue with ejecting plugs. GE Fit's have a significant amount of failures. When Honda did the revision for the GK Fit, they finally used the proper longer thread length plugs and the issue seems to be fully addressed.

Of all the cars I've worked on, the Fit is the only one I've seen with aluminum heads and short reach plugs. I don't think it's a smart combo. On our GD, I go with the goodentight method on the plugs. The factory rating of 13 ft/lbs is not near enough in my opinion and my opinion seems to be backed by factory installed plugs ejecting from the head.

 

Must be nice 😂 from replacing an engine to replacing a cylinder head to just maybe chasing threads on one plug and getting a new coil.

One thing I've done for chasing should you bother, I just cut 2-4 knotches in an old plug using an angle grinder and a wood clamp to hold the plug in place (I love my little bessey clamps). This does cut through the crush washer or hex partly. cutting perpendicular to the threads like yuh do. I figure the hardware that gets installed in a hole/nut will already have the desired pitch and whatnot. then just blow out the cylinder. might even get away with using dust-off canned air.

Just hafta be careful for yourself and the fastener, avoid flinching and accidentally flattening threads. severing an artery.

Not a plug, but an example

EDIT: thumbs up @GAFIT
20ftlbs according to my old dealership.

 

GAFit it's funny because I always do lots of research on a car I want to buy, before I buy it, so I hopefully know of any common issues to preemptively resolve. But sometimes I don't find out about an issue until it happens to myself.. lol. I never knew about plugs hitting the eject button. The short threads in an aluminum head definitely don't seem like a good idea from where I'm sitting.. agreed!


It really is, not gonna lie 🤣

That's a solid idea, I'll do that! Notch a couple threads so the top threads can still bite. Thanks for the reference photo! Super helpful. I actually don't have an angle grinder but I've got a Dremel that'll definitely do the trick. And a vice I use for lock picking, from harbor freight, with nice rubber clamp grips ("2-3/4 in. Articulated Vacuum Vise"). So it won't damage the plug.

I've got 4 NGK 6774 plugs on the way, should have them by Wednesday or Thurs. Towing my car home tomorrow, I got a spot to work on it in a parking spot on a side street, it'll have to do.


Hey, while I have y'all helping me out, could you give me advice on the oil pan gasket? I'm used to replacing gaskets around the entire lip of the pan. But on my GE, from allll the research and part diagrams I found online, all I can find is a half circle gasket (AutoZone part URL, aftermarket; OEM PN being 11252-PWA-000). And all the aftermarket gaskets I found on AutoZone, for example, come with an excessive amount of RTV black. lol
Since I can't find an actual full gasket, and all the half circle gaskets come with RTV, and all the diagrams I found from Honda don't have any other gasket PN's.... do I legit just RTV seal the lip of the pan in conjunction with the half circle gasket? (No RTV on the gasket just around the lip until it meets the gasket)

Thanks!!

 

You had both bad and good luck, it seems

Interestingly, the melted coil pack almost looks like it was an electrical fire. But I don't have any trouble believing that 10 minutes of exhaust gas leakage blowing by before the plug let go would do that, either.

 

Most of the mating surfaces (other than the valve cover) of these engines are sealed with Hondabond. I use Permatex Ultra Grey as a more affordable substitute. The oil pan just has the half circle gasket. The rest of it and the entire timing chain cover are RTV. There's even two small dabs used on the valve cover where the timing chain cover mates to the head at the top.

All of that said, I can't think of any reason you'll need to remove the oil pan. Even if you remove the cylinder head, the oil pan stays on the block. There are two bolts that go up through the pan and into the timing cover, but the pan itself stays on.

If you end up removing the cylinder head for repair and want to replace every gasket associated with the job, go with a gasket kit. Both Honda and the aftermarket offer kits that include every gasket associated with cylinder head replacement...

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...t=5416&jsn=865
or
https://www.hondapartsnow.com/genuin...0-rb0-010.html

 

I really did! I'll be able to actually rest easy when I get new plugs in and it's running fine.

Awesome, thanks for the confirmation on the Hondabond and the tip on the Permatex Ultra Gray! When I had my oil changed, 2 days before my plug peaced out, I was informed my oil pan is leaking. But I'm not buying any gaskets until I see everything with my own eyes although I do believe it. And honestly I don't want to mess with anything until after the car's mobile, for time-sake.

And thanks for the links to the gasket kits. I hadn't looked them up yet but I did plan on doing a full kit, so those are perfect. I did a 'head gasket and up' kit on my '04 VW GTI. I'm all about proactive vs reactive repairs.

I got my plugs today and am towing the Fit back to my apt on Friday morning. My only fear is that I won't have a free parking spot on the street when the tow truck gets here with my car. I can take the day off from work though and get'er done. Absolute worse case scenario I could see: the plug doesn't thread in and I have to pull the head. If that happens I can pull the electrical connector on that cylinder's fuel injector and drive up to my parking spot on the 4th floor if there isn't a street spot open. I'll do everything in my power to avoid that of course.

I did forget one thing... I didn't order a coil pack. I just ordered one from Rock Auto (DENSO 6732312) and it'll arrive Thurs so I'll be good by Friday.

Man... I can't wait until I can afford a place with a garage. I'm moving out of state to somewhere cheaper than Denver in a year. I hate this guerilla car repair I'm stuck doing in an apt building.

All of you have been lifesavers though! I appreciate the support.

 

Pyts your suggestion was perfect. I took out one of the other plugs and made a chaser out of it. I almost didn’t even need it. The plug really did vibrate it’s way out of the spark plug hole.

I did 4 notches to be safe and used some white lithium to catch fragments but I almost didn’t even need grease.

I disconnected the injector on the cylinder, with the new plug installed so compression wasn’t off, and drove it back up to my parking spot. Even with a cylinder down, the engine sounded wonderful.

I’m officially out of the woods! My coil pack arrives this evening and I’ll replace the camshaft and oil pan gaskets for leaks soon.

Thanks to everyone that helped me. ❤️

 

What a story! I'm glad it all worked out. It was a good read.