Looks like some tie rod end replacements might be in my future.







I've got no experience with this, so feel free to offer advice, part numbers, tool recommendations, etc.

 

I don't have any experience with tie rod ends, but looks like a significant leak on the driver's side? Your CV boot and wheel look very wet/shiny. Maybe clutch/brake master from above?

Mileage for reference?

Mark

 

Pic was taken a few minutes after I coated the boots in silicone. That's my boot maintenance routine.


81,000 miles

 

Say.. those are some nice boots..

As for the Tie Rods Ends.. you can just replace the rubber boots on the ends without affecting your alignment. OEM Part number 53546-S84-003

 

My first thoughts are:

1) How hard will it be to get those boots on without loosening the in-board end of the tie rod?

2) If the boot is torn, has dirt and grit gotten in there and created wear?

3) These boots, in order to be restored to factory function, need to be filled with grease, right?

 

1) How hard will it be to get those boots on without loosening the in-board end of the tie rod?

You don't have to loosen the in-board end you can seperate them from the knuckle side and pop them out to get access to the boot. Using a tool similar to the ones circled in red.



2) If the boot is torn, has dirt and grit gotten in there and created wear?

There will probably be some dirt and grit inside of the boot.. You can always wipe away the dirty grease and re grease as necessary. Be sure to check for functionally as in smoothness of the joint and there is no "play". If there is excessive play you can always replace the entire Tie Rod End which then you will need to have the car realigned.

3) These boots, in order to be restored to factory function, need to be filled with grease, right?

Always a good practice to re-grease the end and boot while you are replacing the boot.

 

I learned 3 things from this post.

1. Squirt silicone on CV boots. Although, at 13+ years and 223k miles, mine still looked good the last time I rotated my tires.
2. Squirt silicone on tie rod end boots? Maybe.
3. Keep an eye on tie rod end boots so you can replace boots BEFORE they split.

I also squirt silicone on a rag and wipe down my door rubber from time to time to keep them "fresh." Doors close much easier.

Mark

 

Just to be clear, I would be using this tool to remove the tie rod end from the knuckle. Is that correct? What do you call this tool? Couldn't I tap the tie rod end out with a hammer? Should I expect that it's going to be difficult to separate the tie rod end from the knuckle?

I did a little research. I'll attach Pages 17-18 to 17-19 of the Service Manual. Your suggestion to replace just the boots is a good one, but I don't think I have enough finesse as a mechanic to do it, nor do I have the proper tools. I anticipate that those boots are not going to go on easily, especially with the tie rod end still attached. Maybe not, but I am trying to anticipate points of failure. This is my daily driver, and I have to rent lift space, so I have to get this job done correctly the first time. If I can buy the entire tie rod ends and make this a drop-it-out-drop-it-in procedure, I could increase my chances of success. Then, all I would have to worry about is getting an alignment.

 

The tool is called a Pitman Arm Puller.. You can google search for Pitman Arm Puller or Tie Rod end Removal tool to find the tool. I would recommend using tools similar to those versus using a hammer.. as a hammer can ruin the threaded portion of the Tie Rod end and cause it to either 1.) Ruin the threads and/or 2.) Cause the threads to mushroom as it is hollow to allow for a cotter pin to pass through it. A hammer will be a much harder process as the Tie Rod end is pressed in there.. and rate of destroying the threads of the Tie Rod is high.

What I recommend doing is removing the castle nut.. Flipping it upside down.. and putting it back on with solid side facing out so that you can both protect the threads and give it some rigidity while applying those tools to it. To prevent the threads from "mushrooming" out and prevent it from ruining the threads.

You can buy entire Tie Rods if you rather do that as well.. Once you undo the nut that allows for adjustment you are going to need to do an alignment. And you are still going to need to remove them from the knuckle side to get them out. The Part Numbers for them are below. The cost for them is about 50 each.

53540-TF0-003 Right Tie Rod End
53560-TF0-003 Left Tie Rod End

You do not need to put the car on a lift to do this job. That is optional. Some jack stands and a jack if you have those should suffice. You just need to take off the wheel to get access to the knuckle.

 

@mykizism Thank you that post. It is very helpful, thorough, clear, and patient.

Buying a couple of Pitman Arm Pullers shouldn't be a problem. However, if I replace the entire tie rod end, then I won't have to worry if I damage the old one while removing it. Also, you advise "Be sure to check for [functionality] as in smoothness of the joint and there is no 'play.' If there is excessive play you can always replace the entire Tie Rod End which then you will need to have the car realigned." Right there is where I don't have enough experience as a mechanic. I wouldn't know how much play is acceptable. The argument in favor of replacing the entire tie rod end is firming up for me.

Here's my question: If I need a Pitman Arm Puller to remove the old tie rod end, how hard is it going to be to install the new one?

 

If there is any play in it.. it should be obvious.. The ball joint should be pretty tight in there.. and should move around smoothly (gliding within the grease fluid) without a gritty/grind-y feeling in it.. if there is any play it will be that you can feel an air gap between the ball and the cup that it is in. (Like pulling up and down on it and hearing/feeling for clicks). Installing it is very easy.. you just need to put it in place and use the castle nut to bolt it in.. The act of torquing the nut will "press" the joint back into place.

There is nothing wrong with getting new Tie Rod Ends if it you feel more at ease with them. Replacing just the boots will save some money as the boots are about 10 each versus 50 each. But you get new Ends which is great. I say do what you feel is best for you.

 

This is a big thread! I really have missed a lot.
The above info looks solid but I did just skim. Forgive me if I'm repeating what the other dude said. The following is my advice on doing tie rod outers:

I HATE tie rods. I've tried removing them all the ways and I ALWAYS rip the boots, so now whenever I remove them for any service I have another set ready to go. I use a metal mallet/demolition hammer (2-3lbs), flip and reinstall the castle nut flush with the top of the stud. just so I don't miss or mushroom the stud to the point of being stuck. I would recommend trying to make sure the stud is straight-ish in the hub's hole so as to avoid ovaling it. I do have 3 ball/tie rod removal tools, I just don't use 'em unless I cant fit the hammer or someone picky is watching over my shoulder.

Contrary to popular opinion (if it interests you) I get replacement ends without grease zerks. Every time I grease those they burst within a month, nevermind any claims about there being channels purposed specifically to release excess grease. That guides my purchase of replacement. Worth noting though, my originals have lasted me 110k miles now, so I'm also considering getting OEM ones when it's time..

As for getting them close before an alignment, just try to count threads while the old ones are still on, or you can use a caliper, ruler, or mark a small stick to indicate approximate distance from where the threads begin on the inner rod to the nut that butts against the outer. It doesn't have to be perfect

A decade or so ago I did tie rods on a friend's mustang. I counted threads and wrote down the numbers, but then accidentally switched numbers for each side. Got in the car to go get the alignment and realized my mistake. It was so off it squealed like a banshee at above 20mph. So I drove it to a shop at 20mph with the hazards on
I did apologize and explain when I handed the keys over. The front tires had just a tiny bit of scuff.
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Thanks @Pyts. I was wondering about grease fittings. I don't see any in the images of OEM tie rod ends for the Fit, and I didn't notice any on my car. I guess I'll find out when the new parts arrive.

Now for another question: If I'm replacing outer tie rod ends, does that mean the inner tie rod ends are likely shot as well? What's the rule of thumb here?

And maybe one more: My alignment shop is 20 miles down the highway. Is that too far to risk driving on un-aligned wheels?

 

If you have the proper tools to remove the parts why bother using a hammer? Its way more work and energy going down that route. I mean.. unless you like that sort of thing. The removal tools require little to no effort and that is their job to remove those parts with ease.

Anything that has grease zerks is not OEM Honda..and is usually aftermarket and is usually junk.

 

To be quite honest from the images you posted of your Tie Rod Ends.. they look to be in good condition and the boots are the only thing that need to be replaced. The Inner Tie Rods usually are good for the life of the car.

You should be fine driving 20 miles to get an alignment. You would be surprised how many people drive hundreds of miles on misaligned cars eating through tires like its cake.

 

Inner tie rods can be tugged on with an inline motion to be checked for play. Any slack indicates wear that equates to an impossibility of proper alignment.
You know, cuz if they can slip in and out, they can't be set to be a perfect distance apart from the other side. When they're moderately bad you can actually hear a knock while tugging.

I'd advise doing inners and outers at the same time so as to only pay for one alignment BUT inner tie rods are annoying, require a special tool similar to but not the same as the one used for a fuel pump housing, as well as (to avoid scraped knuckles/get extra leverage if tight) a long extension. Oh, and you have to deal with the inner rod's boot band. I've replaced bands with zip-ties numerous times (after market parts can even come with zip-ties), but even with a high quality zip-tie.. you need to make sure it's a good seal and yet avoid over-tightening to the point that it'll snap later. The alternative is an unpopular specialty tool and new metal band, so I definitely wouldn't fault using zip-ties.

I think the service manual calls for dropping the steering rack to do inners. I doubt you actually have to, but it may be pretty tight! With all that said I leave it to your discretion, my friend. If you need anything further for it though, don't hesitate to ask! I'll dig up everything I can.

As for the alignment shop distance - at 20 miles you should do your very best to count threads and match that number on the relevant side when installing your new parts. Close will most definitely be close enough. Oh, and make the nuts moderately tight! Don't want it coming loose on the drive.

Sometimes they're stuck! I've worked on some abused cars. And sometimes the tools don't fit perfectly depending on the vehicle When I first did tie rods, I bought via ebay the OEM tool for the related car. That went well, but aftermarket tools can fit a little iffy, and if stuff is jammed/stuck, I've found that you can damage the backside of the tie rod, like where they would put a grease zerk. Simply put, if there's a way to screw something up, I'll find it. Now I'm spiteful! I've done cleaner work with a hammer! And the hammer may already be in use to get the stud centered in the hub's hole for it. With a flipped castle nut, I'm starting near the highest point of escalation shy of using penetrating oil (which I'll do a day ahead if my head's clear) and a torch. Saves me from getting all frazzled too early into the job.

Aftermarket parts can be good! I can't make a super strong argument for that, but budget has forced me to develop that opinion.
I totally respect one's loyalty to OEM parts though, particularly in the case of the Fit. Honda used some seriously high quality stuff! I even get just doing boot replacements. I'd leave it to the discretion of the doer. If they don't feel super comfortable with telling if a joint is bad though, I'd suggest just replacing it. Grease will break down in some way, get displaced, and allow for metal on metal wear eventually. If the factory ones hold up a lifetime, and I believe that they could, they won't be quite as tight as a fresh one (provided it was manufactured with some sense of pride). Wear takes its toll on all of us. But there's no shame in wanting to see a part through to the very end!

 

Oh. now it brings back my original reply. Machines may be smarter, more competent, and smoother with the ladies than I am, but they're unapologetic for their failures!

 

These zip ties are sweet, but may be too wide.
Use good ones regardless :}

 

I appreciate that advice, Seņor Pyts, but if the inner tie rod ends need replacing, then I'm going to fold. I wouldn't be able to reach that far.

Right now, I'm going with the idea that the boots went bad, not the ball joints on the outer tie rod ends. Therefore, if the "accordion" boots on the inner tie rod ends are in sounds shape, I expect that I will find no play on the inner end. We shall see.


EDIT: By the way, you can source replacements for the metal band that holds the dust boot in place. What I'm not seeing on the parts diagram is the metal pin that fixes the inner tie rod end in place. Maybe the you tube video that I saw was not correct.

 

I didn't see your edit!
I havent figured those metal bands out well enough. Seems like they require some funny pliers. It's been in mind to look further into those. As for the pin you mentioned, I'm not sure what you're referring to. I don't think I recall seeing any pins on the inners i've serviced.
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