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Realized that it had been a while since I checked the plugs in my 2013 Fit, so I pulled the #1 coil pack off and checked the plug. Very tight, so I figured "Okay, I'm good..."
Fast forward to last week when I changed the air filter, cabin filter, and wiper blades. The next morning I start the car, and the CEL + VSA lights are on. My first thought was "Ah, I forgot to reconnect the mass air flow sensor", which I indeed had forgotten. Started the car back up, same CEL + VSA. Hmm. Disconnected the battery to reset, same condition. I know the CEL + VSA is a common symptom of a loose plug, so I figured...okay let me check them all this time.
20 minutes of pulling off all the crap on top of the engine, turns out the #2 plug was about 1.5 turns loose, with noticeable discoloration on the boot.
Ordered a new set of plugs and boots, dodged a bullet there.
Plug 2 seems to be the worst, followed closely by plug 3. I.e. if you are only going to check one, check plug number 2
Indeed, those two seem to be the two most likely affected, I suspect due to their proximity to the exhaust manifold.
It takes a bit of contortion, but the #2 plug is accessible without removing the cowling, certainly enough to stick a 6" extension with spark plug socket down there to check for tightness.
Your post prompted me to spring for the NGK plugs that I had saved on my Amazon wish list. None of mine were loose, per se, but #2 took considerably less effort to remove than the other three.
Dont use anti-seize, they need all the grab they can get, and torque 'em to 20ft.lbs. Should be good to go then.
FSM calls for anti-seize, and I think it's in part to achieve the proper torque. Torque on dry threads is different then torque on lubricated threads. Just a theory but there is a torque reduction factor for lubricated threads. So 13lb/ft dry will be a fair amount different then 13lb/ft lubricated.
Your post prompted me to spring for the NGK plugs that I had saved on my Amazon wish list. None of mine were loose, per se, but #2 took considerably less effort to remove than the other three.
With how many fakes are out there, I would NEVER buy spark plugs off amazon or ebay. Just not worth the savings or convenience.
At your discretion. I understand the basic concept of how anti seize affects torque values by reducing friction and do recall someone stating it can increase overall value by up to 20%. Assuming that's correct you'd be left with a value of 15.6. I've done my plugs a ton of times trying different things. Dry, copper, nickel, copper spray gasket, including a few months back where I ran 'em with nickel anti-seize at 20, and they loosened within just a few months. BUT I do use Denso IK22 powersports plugs (referenced in my superstreet/import tuner thread by Kraftwerks, purposed to address cylinder hotspot in L15A7), so thats an additional variable.
Somebody recently uploaded my old pic comparing the bishko manual to an updated print from the Honda dealership in Escondido, CA, where they raised the value to 20 ft.lbs. and made no mention of anti-seize.
That may not carry over across all dealerships though.
Because of your post as well as others, I replaced my plugs at 75,000 miles and by the looks of them, it was just in time. I’ve been lurking on the forum a bit and joined today just to say thank you to everyone that’s convinced me to change my plugs and torque them to 20 ft/lbs.
^Nothing really seems out of place. You would have felt one or more of the plugs come out with less force if it were loose. I know my #2 came out with less force, and if I remember correctly the part of the coil pack that is near the spark plug was brown vs the others completely gray. While I think the spark plugs can last the full 90k miles, I don't have faith that the machining tolerance or factory installed plugs should be left w/0 being checked for that long.
Somebody recently uploaded my old pic comparing the bishko manual to an updated print from the Honda dealership in Escondido, CA, where they raised the value to 20 ft.lbs. and made no mention of anti-seize.
That may not carry over across all dealerships though.
Just curious, if this is the manual/pic you're referring to? I agree that you will find many posts on many forums for many different auto manufacturers/models debating the pros and cons, but there is mention of anti-seize in this manual.
This is what I did the last time I replaced mine. I used copper anti-seize on mine at 199k miles 3 years and 27k miles ago and they (NGK) are still tight. First time in 40 years I've ever had the need to use a torque wrench or anti-seize to install plugs in aluminum heads. All my vehicles have had aluminum heads. I checked them at 210k (still tight) and just the other day at 226k because of this reminder post. The first set that I installed in my Fit (no torque wrench or anti-seize) loosened but did not eject after ~90k miles. For reference, 2010 and owned since new. As always, YMMV.
@zcargo
You're dead-on. I'd recognize that filthy thumb nail anywhere. It would appear that I've been more recently misleading folks about anti-seize. I'll look and correct my threads & posts. Thank you for catching this.
I'll see if I can get another print from the dealer in my new area, too.
@zcargo@Pyts As I have said before, elsewhere on this forum, when I changed my OEM spark plugs (installed at the factory, I am the only owner of the car) at 44k-ish miles, none of the plugs were loose, but one was "seized" up pretty good. It was the #4 plug if you are counting left to right while standing in front of the car looking at the engine. I was really sweating about this, and I had to use a small breaker bar to get the plug loose.
That puts me in the yes-use-anti-seize-on-saprk-plugs camp. But I hedge my bets by using only small amounts and covering only about half the threads.
But I hedge my bets by using only small amounts and covering only about half the threads.
There is never a need to use large amounts of anti seize, and coving only have the threads is likely not accomplishing what the anti seize is intended to do. My "guess" is they are calling for anti seize for a few reasons, and one of them is lubrication to achieve proper torque.
OT, Prior to 2000 I don't remember Honda's having spark plug issues, but they they've changed something and haven't figured out how to keep plugs tight.
There is never a need to use large amounts of anti seize, and coving only have the threads is likely not accomplishing what the anti seize is intended to do. My "guess" is they are calling for anti seize for a few reasons, and one of them is lubrication to achieve proper torque.
I don't even use that much; I just put a dab on the threads at the end near the tip and let it get spread around as I thread it in.
I need to post a link: I was watching a video where a guy was putting on WAY too much anti-sieze. Like a big, thick layer on the entirety of all the threads. I assume somewhere there is a big glob leftover down near the tip of the coil boots.
Reminder...check those plugs!!!
