Since my Fit immediately jumps to 2,000 rpm on cold startup waiting for warmup is a waste of time and fuel! Any damage is already done.

 

I don't care what anyone says, I always let my car warm up until the cold engine light goes out, and in the absence of an actual temperature gauge, usually longer. I live in Canada and the winters get cold, but it's not just about winter temperatures.

It doesn't matter that it warms up "faster" when you are driving it. Think of it in terms of RPMs. Say it takes 3 minutes at at idle (about 1200 rpms) or 1 minute while driving (let's say 3600 rpms for simplicity), the total opportunity for wear against the cylinder wall is about the same. Or is it?

Actually when you drive it under higher load, the piston rings are forced to the sides with more pressure, increasing the opportunity for wear. Not to mention the oil is colder giving less lubrication, and the cylinder is contracted slightly so clearances are less.

 

I'm agreed. Not just the engine is gonna wear out faster, for guys with MT it's usually harder to shift when it cold but still better than guys with AT. It may bang into gears or have some shift shock/shift delays when I try to drive it without warming it up during winter. Shift shock/delay problem doesn't happen on Honda only, it happens on my dad & my sister's subaru, and my gf's dad's 07 Camry V6 also.

 

Idling takes much longer to warm up an engine than driving it under light to moderate load. The longer the engine is cold, the longer the engine is running rich. The longer the engine runs rich, the longer you're washing lube from the cylinder walls, the longer you're diluting the oil with gas, the longer your cat converter isn't working, the faster you're consuming fuel, and the longer it's taking to drive moisture out of your oil. As long as you're not putting the engine under high load and high engine speed during the warm-up phase, all of these effects add up to more engine wear, more oil sludging, more fuel consumption, and more pollution. This isn't just my opinion, it's what my owners manuals for most of my cars say, it's what the Bosch blue book and tech guides say, and I suspect it's what most automotive engineering books say, too.

The cold engine light goes out so fast on the Fit that I suspect waiting until it goes out is likely not to cause any significant wear or real-world fuel consumption, but from all indications, you can drive it without any issues before it goes out. These warm-up issues are much more of a problem on cars that have very slow warm up (e.g. air cooled cars like my old 914) or for people who live in colder climates. IMO, a good reason to let your car idle and warm up in cold climates is to get a head start on getting your windows cleared, and heat going in the interior, regardless of if it's good for your engine or not.

 

FWIW, I checked Click and Clack's site to see what they say. Their advice is above freezing, no need to warm up, just drive at low loads and lower engine speeds until the engine is warm. Below freezing, 30 seconds or less of idling to be sure that oil has fully circulated to the top of the valvetrain. If running it for 30 seconds gives people peace-of-mind, and it has little effect on wear, pollution, fuel consumption, or sludging, I say go for it.

 

All I do is start, scrape windows n go for the first start up. If I'm leaving from somewhere I'll give a little time to get the oil moving but I never really wait over a minute unless I don't feel like driving yet

 

The oil pressure in your engine stabilizes about 1/10 to 2/10ths of a second and no more. It's a closed system.

Oil viscosity issues are only at temperatures where the viscosity rating of the oil is not within that temperature range.

If people are so concerned about wear on their engine during startup, then then the worst possible scenario is when you change your oil and that initial startup afterwards.

Waiting for one's car to warm up with today's oils, today's engines, and today's emissions systems is as ludicrous as people STILL changing their oils at 3000 miles...some with synthetic oil no less.

It's a complete waste of time, money, and more importantly, a huge source of unnecessary pollution.

 

Very good points.

 

First of all I'm not a hyper-miler, I'm not so worried about wasting gas. As for gas or moisture getting in the oil, well it's going to be burned out once I drive it for a half hour or so at operating temperatures anyways, so if I start driving with the engine already hot there's more chance of burning it up than starting from cold. Plus I believe in taking care of my new engine, so I use oil stabilizer, and gas conditioner which acts as a lube in itself. I change my oil every 4000kms, with synthetic whether it needs it or not.

 

More info. I couldn't find anything in the Fit's manual about warm-up or driving after starting. Here's the quotes from my '03 Boxster's manual (a pretty complex piece of work, especially the oiling system):

"Do not let the engine idle to warm up"

"When starting the engine, be ready to drive immediately. Drive the vehicle at moderate speeds and avoid engine speeds above 4,200 rpm for the first 5 minutes"

Here's the quote from my 1970 Porsche 914 (one of the first cars with electronic fuel injection):

"Do not warm up engine in neutral. Instead, you can drive off immediately, provided you use only low engine rpm for the first few miles."

Here's what my M3's manual says:

"Do not allow the engine to warm up by leaving it running while the vehicle remains stationary. Instead, drive off immediately at a moderate engine speed."

Our Sienna's manual has slightly different advice:

"After the engine runs for about 10 seconds, you are ready to drive"

"If the weather is below freezing, let the engine warm up for a few minutes before driving."

As they say, YMMV!

 

What kinda engine oil does your Porsche & M3 use btw?

Without some driving both the M3 & the boxter, 914 etc's rear diff is gonna be cold as ice.....so I can understand drive these car easily to warm it up.

 

pbanders,
That is a pretty diverse sampling, with similar recommendations! Thanks.

 

I'm using standard Castrol in the M3, pretty sure it's 10W-40. I'm using a synth in the tranny, but it's been so long since I switched, I can't recall what it is (probably Redline). The 914 I generally use Castrol 10W-40, the tranny has a semi-synthetic Castrol 90W gear oil.

As you say, if I lived in a cold climate (sub-freezing), my biggest issue with the 914 would be the tranny in cold weather. I haven't had a rebuild on the tranny since 1983, so the 1st and 2nd gear synchros don't like to be hurried. Of course, it's not a cold weather car to begin with (e.g. good old VW heat, for example).

 

You all must not live in Canada.

My new Fit will definitely be sitting in my driveway for a few minutes in the dead of winter. I'm not just driving when it's -20 outside. Screw that.

 

Every 2500 miles? Total waste of money, oil, and time. Any SM-rated oil will last for 5000 miles, and used oil analysis shows Honda engines tend to be easy on oil. Your engine isn't going to last any longer by doing changes every 100 miles (or 2500 miles).

 

yes, today's engines are designed to very tight clearances, but i bet these clearances are at a given temperature and i further bet that temperature isn't 10 deg. F. so, if the engine is cold and the metal parts within are contracted you'll have pistons moving up and down with room to slop from side to side until they are warm and fit perfectly.

what i do is start the car, wait for the navi to give me the "OK" button. hit it then take the parking brake off and let the car continue to idle as i roll back out of the driveway in neutral. overall, i'm probably giving 30 seconds of warm-up time. then, i keep it at 2500 rpm and under until the cold light goes out and slowly drive more agressively until i just feel better about it. and that's really the only thing that matters is making everything feel okay in my head according ot my own logic. cuz it's my car

 

remember those old Mobil 1 commercials where they showed conventional oil looking like pancake syrup being poured in very cold weather yet, Mobil 1 still poured as if it were 80 deg. F.? i did this same test years back then in my freezer. put my havoline 10W30 against mobil 1 10W30. i dunno what temp my freezer is, 0 deg. F. or so i imagine, but it is true. conventional oil at those temps does flow like molasses and the mobil 1 lost no viscosity that i could determine.

so, since then i've changed over to mobil 1 each winter.

2 mo' cents!

 

Most fuel injected cars are ready to move forward within 30 seconds of ignition in temperatures over 0 degree Fahrenheit. The most important matter is that you have the proper viscosity oil (per temperature range) in your car. Check you owners manual for this information. Synthetic oil of proper viscosity helps tremendously (both Transmission and engine fluid). But until you get your engine to proper operating temperatures you should baby your car.

If you are below 0F a little extra time is needed ... probably about the same amount of time it takes to scrape the ice off of your windows.

I use full synthetic oil all the time because it helps with molecule sheer (molecule structure is much longer in synthetics) under heat and films (doesn't drain as fast) on parts for much longer than std fossil oil. (but you may have to change the viscosity level dependent on the time of year -temperature range.)

 

ahh...so it does film on parts longer? i've wondered about that lately as i only drive my fit 1-2 times per week. i got curious how long oil coats the parts and if i'm doing harm by letting it sit without running for days at a time...hmmm

 

just something i would like to point out: forums contain a LOT of false information. they're rich with opinions, myths, and jibberish so don't believe everything people post; listen at your own discretion =)