Upgrading handling on 09 base & bad dealer experience
#1
04-15-2009, 05:29 PM
Upgrading handling on 09 base & bad dealer experience
09 Fit Most unfun car I’ve had
I recently bought an 09 Base Fit primarily because of the gas mileage and, according to many reviews, was meant to have been the most fun to drive of the econoboxes. I test drove a Sort model and commented to the salesman that the suspension felt a little soft and while the handling didn’t feel bad was expecting better. He responded that Honda has soft suspension in order to improve the handling! I thought that was a stupid response. I realized that in order to save gas one has to make sacrifices and bad oem tires are usually one of them, but did not see the relevance of lousy suspension. I thought I’d change the tires out and put in aftermarket suspension. The demo car was red and I wanted a more discrete color like white or silver. The salesman pointed out a couple of silver ones on the lot which were Base models. I asked what the difference was and he told me that the base did not have the armrest, the spoiler, and lower sill cladding, and came with steel vs. alloy wheels. I asked what made the sport a sport if it did not go any quicker or handle any better. He did not know. It therefore appeared that there was no advantage in buying a sport, particularly one with a cop attention color. The paperwork was done and he had the car brought up to the front for delivery. The “silver” looked more of a light
blue in the shade, but at least it wasn’t attention getting!
I drove the car home and regretted the purchase with every mile. A wind had got up and the car was wandering within the lane and kept me busy seesawing the steering wheel. The handling on the curved ramps was even worse than the test car. I should have done my research before
setting foot in the dealers. It appeared that the salesman was lying about the differences as not only were the wheels steel, they also came with higher profile narrower tires. Also there was no anti roll bar, or sway bar, between the A arms on the rear end. I also learned that the “Sport came with keyless entry/security system, which they charged me an extra $700 for on the base. I had noticed that the showroom while displaying plenty of literature and showcards on other models, had nothing on the Fit, so other than relying on the salesman, comparison information was unavailable. I am sure that the addition of wider tires along with sway bar would help the handling, believe me it needs all the help it can get! Does anyone know of a good source for sway bars and bushings etc, preferable as a complete kit ready to easily bolt on. I figure that I’m stuck with this pile of fit for a year as the NADA book does not even have a trade value for an 09, so I need to get it as drivable as possible. My last car was a Subaru LGT 5 speed, and before that a WRX so going “green” is no fun. I will never buy any Honda again, in fact I won’t even consider an enonobox of any make. I did call the stealer and asked what it would take to
trade to the Sport and he was going to call me back, but I am still waiting, so modifying it is my only option.
I recently bought an 09 Base Fit primarily because of the gas mileage and, according to many reviews, was meant to have been the most fun to drive of the econoboxes. I test drove a Sort model and commented to the salesman that the suspension felt a little soft and while the handling didn’t feel bad was expecting better. He responded that Honda has soft suspension in order to improve the handling! I thought that was a stupid response. I realized that in order to save gas one has to make sacrifices and bad oem tires are usually one of them, but did not see the relevance of lousy suspension. I thought I’d change the tires out and put in aftermarket suspension. The demo car was red and I wanted a more discrete color like white or silver. The salesman pointed out a couple of silver ones on the lot which were Base models. I asked what the difference was and he told me that the base did not have the armrest, the spoiler, and lower sill cladding, and came with steel vs. alloy wheels. I asked what made the sport a sport if it did not go any quicker or handle any better. He did not know. It therefore appeared that there was no advantage in buying a sport, particularly one with a cop attention color. The paperwork was done and he had the car brought up to the front for delivery. The “silver” looked more of a light
blue in the shade, but at least it wasn’t attention getting!
I drove the car home and regretted the purchase with every mile. A wind had got up and the car was wandering within the lane and kept me busy seesawing the steering wheel. The handling on the curved ramps was even worse than the test car. I should have done my research before
setting foot in the dealers. It appeared that the salesman was lying about the differences as not only were the wheels steel, they also came with higher profile narrower tires. Also there was no anti roll bar, or sway bar, between the A arms on the rear end. I also learned that the “Sport came with keyless entry/security system, which they charged me an extra $700 for on the base. I had noticed that the showroom while displaying plenty of literature and showcards on other models, had nothing on the Fit, so other than relying on the salesman, comparison information was unavailable. I am sure that the addition of wider tires along with sway bar would help the handling, believe me it needs all the help it can get! Does anyone know of a good source for sway bars and bushings etc, preferable as a complete kit ready to easily bolt on. I figure that I’m stuck with this pile of fit for a year as the NADA book does not even have a trade value for an 09, so I need to get it as drivable as possible. My last car was a Subaru LGT 5 speed, and before that a WRX so going “green” is no fun. I will never buy any Honda again, in fact I won’t even consider an enonobox of any make. I did call the stealer and asked what it would take to
trade to the Sport and he was going to call me back, but I am still waiting, so modifying it is my only option.
#2
04-15-2009, 05:50 PM
You are right, you should have done your research before you bought the car instead of blaming the stealership for your own mistake. I have a WRX myself, yea it handles way better but did you expect the Fit to handle like a LGT or WRX? It's an "enonobox".
#3
04-15-2009, 05:54 PM
the fit DOES have good handling characteristics... compared to other econoboxes... but expecting it to corner like a WRX is shooting high... even if you do get a sport its not going to meet your expectations...
#4
04-17-2009, 11:32 PM
Of couse I don't expect it to be up to the Subarus. I bought it with gas mileage in mind. I did expect the car as was delivered to perform the same as the demo model as I was assured that it would. The salesman emphatically stated that as far as performace in both engine and suspension that there were no differences. I still think that there was a noticable diffrence between what I tested and what I got.
#5
04-17-2009, 11:41 PM
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 2,373
Of couse I don't expect it to be up to the Subarus. I bought it with gas mileage in mind. I did expect the car as was delivered to perform the same as the demo model as I was assured that it would. The salesman emphatically stated that as far as performace in both engine and suspension that there were no differences. I still think that there was a noticable diffrence between what I tested and what I got.
I research a car for MONTHS and go on forums to find out EVERYTHING I need to know about my car. I dont deal with low level sales people anymore as by the time I decide I want to buy the car I know everything about the car imaginable.
#7
04-18-2009, 10:20 AM
09 Fit Most unfun car I’ve had
I recently bought an 09 Base Fit primarily because of the gas mileage and, according to many reviews, was meant to have been the most fun to drive of the econoboxes. I test drove a Sort model and commented to the salesman that the suspension felt a little soft and while the handling didn’t feel bad was expecting better. He responded that Honda has soft suspension in order to improve the handling! I thought that was a stupid response. I realized that in order to save gas one has to make sacrifices and bad oem tires are usually one of them, but did not see the relevance of lousy suspension. I thought I’d change the tires out and put in aftermarket suspension. The demo car was red and I wanted a more discrete color like white or silver. The salesman pointed out a couple of silver ones on the lot which were Base models. I asked what the difference was and he told me that the base did not have the armrest, the spoiler, and lower sill cladding, and came with steel vs. alloy wheels. I asked what made the sport a sport if it did not go any quicker or handle any better. He did not know. It therefore appeared that there was no advantage in buying a sport, particularly one with a cop attention color. The paperwork was done and he had the car brought up to the front for delivery. The “silver” looked more of a light
blue in the shade, but at least it wasn’t attention getting!
I drove the car home and regretted the purchase with every mile. A wind had got up and the car was wandering within the lane and kept me busy seesawing the steering wheel. The handling on the curved ramps was even worse than the test car. I should have done my research before
setting foot in the dealers. It appeared that the salesman was lying about the differences as not only were the wheels steel, they also came with higher profile narrower tires. Also there was no anti roll bar, or sway bar, between the A arms on the rear end. I also learned that the “Sport came with keyless entry/security system, which they charged me an extra $700 for on the base. I had noticed that the showroom while displaying plenty of literature and showcards on other models, had nothing on the Fit, so other than relying on the salesman, comparison information was unavailable. I am sure that the addition of wider tires along with sway bar would help the handling, believe me it needs all the help it can get! Does anyone know of a good source for sway bars and bushings etc, preferable as a complete kit ready to easily bolt on. I figure that I’m stuck with this pile of fit for a year as the NADA book does not even have a trade value for an 09, so I need to get it as drivable as possible. My last car was a Subaru LGT 5 speed, and before that a WRX so going “green” is no fun. I will never buy any Honda again, in fact I won’t even consider an enonobox of any make. I did call the stealer and asked what it would take to
trade to the Sport and he was going to call me back, but I am still waiting, so modifying it is my only option.
I recently bought an 09 Base Fit primarily because of the gas mileage and, according to many reviews, was meant to have been the most fun to drive of the econoboxes. I test drove a Sort model and commented to the salesman that the suspension felt a little soft and while the handling didn’t feel bad was expecting better. He responded that Honda has soft suspension in order to improve the handling! I thought that was a stupid response. I realized that in order to save gas one has to make sacrifices and bad oem tires are usually one of them, but did not see the relevance of lousy suspension. I thought I’d change the tires out and put in aftermarket suspension. The demo car was red and I wanted a more discrete color like white or silver. The salesman pointed out a couple of silver ones on the lot which were Base models. I asked what the difference was and he told me that the base did not have the armrest, the spoiler, and lower sill cladding, and came with steel vs. alloy wheels. I asked what made the sport a sport if it did not go any quicker or handle any better. He did not know. It therefore appeared that there was no advantage in buying a sport, particularly one with a cop attention color. The paperwork was done and he had the car brought up to the front for delivery. The “silver” looked more of a light
blue in the shade, but at least it wasn’t attention getting!
I drove the car home and regretted the purchase with every mile. A wind had got up and the car was wandering within the lane and kept me busy seesawing the steering wheel. The handling on the curved ramps was even worse than the test car. I should have done my research before
setting foot in the dealers. It appeared that the salesman was lying about the differences as not only were the wheels steel, they also came with higher profile narrower tires. Also there was no anti roll bar, or sway bar, between the A arms on the rear end. I also learned that the “Sport came with keyless entry/security system, which they charged me an extra $700 for on the base. I had noticed that the showroom while displaying plenty of literature and showcards on other models, had nothing on the Fit, so other than relying on the salesman, comparison information was unavailable. I am sure that the addition of wider tires along with sway bar would help the handling, believe me it needs all the help it can get! Does anyone know of a good source for sway bars and bushings etc, preferable as a complete kit ready to easily bolt on. I figure that I’m stuck with this pile of fit for a year as the NADA book does not even have a trade value for an 09, so I need to get it as drivable as possible. My last car was a Subaru LGT 5 speed, and before that a WRX so going “green” is no fun. I will never buy any Honda again, in fact I won’t even consider an enonobox of any make. I did call the stealer and asked what it would take to
trade to the Sport and he was going to call me back, but I am still waiting, so modifying it is my only option.
Hopefully, you have learned it is the buyer's resoponsibility to at least study the brochure and know the things that are contained theein before going to the dealership, where salespeople are taught to confuse. (I've been thru the course).
All of the things you mention are listed in the brochure. just as there are dufus salespeople, there are dufus buyers. Now you may graduate to knowledgable buyers.
Did you do your homework on invoice, used vehicle, and retail pricing too?
It doesn't take a thesis, just a few minutes, even if its just arriving at the dealership and reviewing the brochure before talking to a salesperson.
Sorry to be so hard on you but I've heard your story hundreds of times and I've gotten a little thin-skinned. My intent is you remember next anf future times. cheers.
And PS deactivating the front antisway bar mays the base equal to or better than the sport with both bars. And with the $ you saved, replacing the wheels/tires will go a looong way to improving handling. And cross-wind resistance.
The only thing you really lost is the cruise control.
cheers and good luck.
#9
04-18-2009, 11:34 PM
Sorry to hear about your bad experience. Not to beat a dead horse, but what I do when I'm thinking about a new car is have a brochure mailed to my house for every car I'm interested in. That way I can decide what options are important to me and what model I want to look at before I even set foot in a dealership.
I used to have a 2001 Mustang GT and I bought a 2009 Fit for many other reasons besides the better gas mileage, and I am extremely happy with the car. It actually handles better than my Mustang did, which is pretty funny.
I can only hope that over time maybe you will come to enjoy your Fit as much as I do, or at least enough to deal with it for a year or two before getting rid of it. Good luck.
I used to have a 2001 Mustang GT and I bought a 2009 Fit for many other reasons besides the better gas mileage, and I am extremely happy with the car. It actually handles better than my Mustang did, which is pretty funny.
I can only hope that over time maybe you will come to enjoy your Fit as much as I do, or at least enough to deal with it for a year or two before getting rid of it. Good luck.
#10
04-19-2009, 07:50 AM
"I'll never buy another econobox again from any maker..."
"I just called the dealer to find out what it would take to trade up to a sport."
You're just trolling now.
"I just called the dealer to find out what it would take to trade up to a sport."
You're just trolling now.
#12
04-19-2009, 12:28 PM
#13
04-19-2009, 03:10 PM
O.K So I'm like the rape victim, it's all my fault! I have been in business for many years and still have many of my original customers and have not advertised for more than 20 years, Why? because I treat my customers honestly and fairly. What is wrong with that? I should expect another business to treat me the same, and not lie and cheat. I have bought many new cars including repeat purchases from the same dealer and have never had cause for complaint, and have recommended them to others. Will that salesman and his managers be in the same business even 10 years from now? I doubt it.
To those posters who are happy with their choice, I'm happy you are!That's why Baskin Robbins make a zillion flavors. The other reason I'm happy is that a resale should be a lot easier than it would be were there no happy Honda buyers. The reason I won't look at another econobox is that the trade off for me is just not worth the (possible) savings.
To those posters who are happy with their choice, I'm happy you are!That's why Baskin Robbins make a zillion flavors. The other reason I'm happy is that a resale should be a lot easier than it would be were there no happy Honda buyers. The reason I won't look at another econobox is that the trade off for me is just not worth the (possible) savings.
#14
04-19-2009, 04:48 PM
It is definitely person preferences whether you enjoy the handling of a Fit or not. For me the Fit's ability to slam it into a curve and hold the line was what sold me on the car. Test driving a Civic I did not feel the handling was as responsive as what the Fit was. When I went to my first test drive on the Fit I had logged in to Fit Freaks since February and I got the test drive a month later. I knew that the Fit had a McPherson strut assemblies and my sales man did not even know this!Your salesman can only tell you what he is told to say by the dealership because most of them are not educated about the products they are selling. I also test drove several other micros and ruled them off the list. This is a hard lesson to learn but you have to do your homework, go into the dealership with the information in your hand and I will test drive and walk away. No decision has to be made immediately especially when purchasing big ticket items that you are committing a portion of your monthly paycheck to. Hope things will work out for you
#15
04-19-2009, 06:22 PM
O.K So I'm like the rape victim, it's all my fault! I have been in business for many years and still have many of my original customers and have not advertised for more than 20 years, Why? because I treat my customers honestly and fairly. What is wrong with that? I should expect another business to treat me the same, and not lie and cheat.
Seriously dude. You did no research, you listened to whatever the salesman told you, and you expected them to be completely honest/knowledgeable? Wanna buy a bridge?
So I am curious. With all of this non-preparation you did, how much did you pay?
#16
04-19-2009, 06:44 PM
It is definitely person preferences whether you enjoy the handling of a Fit or not. For me the Fit's ability to slam it into a curve and hold the line was what sold me on the car. Test driving a Civic I did not feel the handling was as responsive as what the Fit was. When I went to my first test drive on the Fit I had logged in to Fit Freaks since February and I got the test drive a month later. I knew that the Fit had a McPherson strut assemblies and my sales man did not even know this!Your salesman can only tell you what he is told to say by the dealership because most of them are not educated about the products they are selling. I also test drove several other micros and ruled them off the list. This is a hard lesson to learn but you have to do your homework, go into the dealership with the information in your hand and I will test drive and walk away. No decision has to be made immediately especially when purchasing big ticket items that you are committing a portion of your monthly paycheck to. Hope things will work out for you
You cannot 'slam' a stock Fit into a corner without going butt over teacups into the outside wall nose first.. It doesn't have the weighht distribution, center-of-gravity, suspension, tires, nor alignment to do that. The stock Fit understeers so badly that the most you will get is losing the front end in lurid slides. I think what you liked was the precision steering. It is a piece of good work.
But you are correct that the Fit handles better than Yaris or Versa; those just happen to be worst. They apparently used my father's Oldsmobile as their target. aND even better the Fit can be made to handle much better just by reducing the massive understeer.
#17
04-19-2009, 06:54 PM
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bay Area/Central Coast, CA
Posts: 777
Dealers are in the business to make money. Especially in this economy, their gonna sell you whatever they have. Ideally, the salesman will be honest, but many are not fully informed.
Salespeople are NOT usually car people. They only know what they see in the "Features " column of the brochure.
The buyer should be able to trust the dealership in an ideal world, but for now it's best to do your research.
It's a bummer, and so I'm wishing you the best of luck.
Salespeople are NOT usually car people. They only know what they see in the "Features " column of the brochure.
The buyer should be able to trust the dealership in an ideal world, but for now it's best to do your research.
It's a bummer, and so I'm wishing you the best of luck.
#18
04-21-2009, 08:17 PM
"And PS deactivating the front antisway bar mays the base equal to or better than the sport with both bars. And with the $ you saved, replacing the wheels/tires will go a looong way to improving handling. And cross-wind resistance"
"aND even better the Fit can be made to handle much better just by reducing the massive understeer."
Mahout
By removing the front bar, surely it will have the effect of causing more dipping and body roll by allowing the front wheel as would be on the inner radius of the curve to come up even more and therefore make the roll worse? Also I am looking into different tire choices and there does not seem to be a great selection out there. The oem Dunlop31's are garbage and I am surprised that they list for as much as they do. The "better" tires only come in different sizes. As a compromise I am considering the Sumitomo H200 in 195/60/15 or the Bridgestone 960 in same size. I figure that size and type should not increase rolling resistance too much, while providing a better grip, but the only way I'm going to find out is by making the change. I don't see much advantage in changing the wheels unless I go for something very much lighter and they would run at least $250 ea. I am not sure about that massive understeer and whether it can be improved, at least in a fairly cost effective way.
"aND even better the Fit can be made to handle much better just by reducing the massive understeer."
Mahout
By removing the front bar, surely it will have the effect of causing more dipping and body roll by allowing the front wheel as would be on the inner radius of the curve to come up even more and therefore make the roll worse? Also I am looking into different tire choices and there does not seem to be a great selection out there. The oem Dunlop31's are garbage and I am surprised that they list for as much as they do. The "better" tires only come in different sizes. As a compromise I am considering the Sumitomo H200 in 195/60/15 or the Bridgestone 960 in same size. I figure that size and type should not increase rolling resistance too much, while providing a better grip, but the only way I'm going to find out is by making the change. I don't see much advantage in changing the wheels unless I go for something very much lighter and they would run at least $250 ea. I am not sure about that massive understeer and whether it can be improved, at least in a fairly cost effective way.
#19
04-22-2009, 08:22 AM
"And PS deactivating the front antisway bar mays the base equal to or better than the sport with both bars. And with the $ you saved, replacing the wheels/tires will go a looong way to improving handling. And cross-wind resistance"
"aND even better the Fit can be made to handle much better just by reducing the massive understeer."
Mahout
By removing the front bar, surely it will have the effect of causing more dipping and body roll by allowing the front wheel as would be on the inner radius of the curve to come up even more and therefore make the roll worse? Also I am looking into different tire choices and there does not seem to be a great selection out there. The oem Dunlop31's are garbage and I am surprised that they list for as much as they do. The "better" tires only come in different sizes. As a compromise I am considering the Sumitomo H200 in 195/60/15 or the Bridgestone 960 in same size. I figure that size and type should not increase rolling resistance too much, while providing a better grip, but the only way I'm going to find out is by making the change. I don't see much advantage in changing the wheels unless I go for something very much lighter and they would run at least $250 ea. I am not sure about that massive understeer and whether it can be improved, at least in a fairly cost effective way.
"aND even better the Fit can be made to handle much better just by reducing the massive understeer."
Mahout
By removing the front bar, surely it will have the effect of causing more dipping and body roll by allowing the front wheel as would be on the inner radius of the curve to come up even more and therefore make the roll worse? Also I am looking into different tire choices and there does not seem to be a great selection out there. The oem Dunlop31's are garbage and I am surprised that they list for as much as they do. The "better" tires only come in different sizes. As a compromise I am considering the Sumitomo H200 in 195/60/15 or the Bridgestone 960 in same size. I figure that size and type should not increase rolling resistance too much, while providing a better grip, but the only way I'm going to find out is by making the change. I don't see much advantage in changing the wheels unless I go for something very much lighter and they would run at least $250 ea. I am not sure about that massive understeer and whether it can be improved, at least in a fairly cost effective way.
One of the worst 'standards' in suspension is "body roll is bad". Europeans, who drive much harder than we, barely use antiroll bars and even then use them to balance handling by changing understeer/oversteer. front bars add understeer; rear bars add oversteer. They'd rather use springs. Which of course makes cars too stiff for America.
Roll bars reduce body roll some but at the expense of unloading the inside tire, which of course, reduces cornering power. Somewhere in the distant past massive understeer was decided the best for American drivers so thats the 'standard'. Most suspension engineers don't believe if you lose it go off frontwards instead of backwards. Headons are worse than backons.
If you deactivate the front antisway bar on an 08 Fit cornering speed increases. And if you control roll at the rear with AirLift shocks the Fit gets downright fun on a race track.
PS are 195/60x15 tires the only tires you can consider? There are a lot of other good choices based on the ones we have installed.
But its your car and youre driving; your choice.
#20
04-22-2009, 11:17 AM
It took me about 3 mins to look up the comparison spec sheet from the Honda site to see the differences between base and sport, before I went and bought mine.
Time to look into the mirror my friend.
Time to look into the mirror my friend.