For those who might be interested, I checked around for DW1 pricing, and most of the places web or not, is about $8+ / quart. I called a local Honda dealer for the fun of it, they were willing to go for $7 / quart if I buy a case of 12. Well, that beats anything anywhere when you add heavy shipping charges and handling for a case of 12 quarts of oil. I got the case and will be playing with the tranny this week. Will see if the grinding noise disappears or at least reduces its frequency or volume. Will report back to our gang here.

 

I agree with a burnt smell. But color alone is not a good deciding the condition of a fluid. For example, there are plenty of UOA's on motor oil that show even though the oil is dark, the oil is still usable and the additive package is still good as well. Just sayin'.

 

I'm sure there's a word for this. But I decided to call this the black box effect. Whether it is an engine or transmission, if you don't know what's inside, you going to come up with all sorts of superstitions based on the input and output. People with no knowledge weather patterns perform a rain dance and it just so happens to rain the next day, next thing you know everybody's doing a rain dance.

 

my personal belief system requires consulting an astrologer to know the most opportune time to service my tranny. And by tranny, I mean the car. But in a pinch, tea leaves will do. Blood-letting was popular for a while. There's a curious parallel.

 

my experience with this sound:

09 fit A/T with 77k- I can replicate this sound with light throttle at just over 2k rpm. Light grinding sound I thought might have been me driving over road imperfections but I confirmed it was the car after 50 miles driving around. Checked the fluid and it was a bit low. Topping it up while hot made shifts feel smoother (it shifted firm before). Prior to this I performed 2 fluid drain and fills (one at 50k and the other at 65k) and the fluid is brown-pink with a slight smell to it. Will change the fluid again and see if that helps.

I may take SevereService's advice and do a full drain and fill though. There were two instances during its 77k where it shifted hard as I rolled to a stoplight.

Back to the noise: There is an Acura MDX in the family with about 120k, poorly serviced and the transmission probably was never serviced as often as needed. I can EASILY reproduce the grinding sound in this car the same way as in the fit for a few seconds so it troubles me to hear it in the FIT.

Perhaps more frequent fluid changes wouldn't be bad thing. An ounce of prevention and all that

 

just curious:

Your form of severe service involved blowing two engines. Was this all on the same auto transaxle? What sort of peak HP do you think you were producing? How many miles did you accrue on the transmission?

Thanks.

 

Ok, a quick report for those who might still be interested on this thread. Did the 4 x "drain & fill" today with ATF DW1. So far, the tranny definitely runs smoother and more responsive on both up and down shifting. Tried to recreate the same rattle noise at 2000 RPM up shift from 2nd to 3rd gear with light paddling. So far so good - NO noise! Will wait for a couple more days and see if this keeps up, then we may have solved this tranny noise mystery.

 

Perhaps the fluid breaks down pretty fast. Waiting for mine to arrive to do the same drain and fill.

If not my uncle has an 09 as well (leased) and I may consider swapping transmissions if its cost effective. He has 40k on it.

 

I have a MT and never experienced that problem yet. I'm at 70K and flushed it out with Amsoil. Still shifts like a charm.

 

A transmission cooler is relatively inexpensive and easily installed.. Putting one on a transmission that already is acting up won't help but if you can find a solution for the existing problem a transmission cooler will add life to the fluid and the transmission... I have had them lower the engine coolant temperature because they cool the transmission fluid before it circulates through the bottom of the radiator or you can mount it to lower the fluid temperature after it has passed through the radiator before it re enters the transmission....

 

Ok, after 5 days since the "drain and fill", the tranny grinding noise problem has not come back. I think that we are good on solving this one.

 

me either, but I'd characterize the noise as "fluid flushing" perhaps as it passes by a valve. No longer hearing it could be related to a drain/fill.

A grinding noise would have set my hair on end and had me in the dealer asking for a new transmission.

Either way, shifts seem a bit more snappy.

 

Steve, thank you for your confirmation so that I do not feel bad about being "too sensitive" to the noise, but focus more on the mechanical functionality and reliability. Although, I have to say the 4 x "drain and fill" is rather confusing after the second time, let alone the 3rd and 4th. That being said, for the next 30 to 40k, should we do the 4 x routine or does 2 x suffice?

 

I did "one time" at the dealer @ 35K

I'll do "one time" every 30K or so.

My rational is by the time the MM calls for the first drain/fill (around 120k?) it will have 4 drain/fills. It satisfies my need to be anal without going full OCD.

 

I hate this kind of hearsay advice, when people talk about "I heard from...", especially if the old wive's advice may not even apply to the specific situation. Sometimes mechanics just make up some BS with the most simplified answer that they think will get rid of a pesky customer asking a lot of questions so they can get back to work.

As far as flush, I don't see how you get too much pressure if they used a t-tec device which is an unpowered device. So this depends what a "flush" is. There are still schools of thought to not replace all the fluid in one go, so that's a reason not to flush, but the reason of too much pressure is a procedure or tools issue.

but anywhoo, why would you drain only 1 quart if you can drain 2-3quarts? Might as do the full drain and fill. Seems like it's a waste of effort to screw that plug back in, while the fluid you don't want is still draining out.

 

Just wanted to chime in that I'm also experiencing this noise. 2010 base auto, 34,400 miles. I just got back from the dealership, where they heard the noise and recommended a triple drain and fill for $179.95. Ouch. I'm thinking about doing it myself but I have no experience with this kind of thing so I'd definitely get help from my dad who has more experience. It seems fairly simple to me. However, I'm confused now about draining and filling and how many times to do so. Is it three or four? And how long should you wait/how far should you drive in between?

It seems very weird to me that, according to reading other threads on AT fluid change, the official recommendation from Honda is to change it (meaning one drain and fill, I assume) at 60,000 and then ever 30,000. Yet at 34,400 the fluid is causing enough issues to make a grinding noise. That's a big mileage difference, and I'm not an aggressive driver, I don't live in a mountainous region. Obviously changing the fluid is the safe way to go. It can't hurt, if I do it right. If the noise persists, I just hope the dealership honors the fact that I did it myself and doesn't insist that I buy their ridiculously overpriced service before they dig any further into the transmission.

 

The dealership won't dig into the transmission. Honda mechanics aren't trained anymore to rebuild/fix them; just replace them (too few failures so it's not cost effective). They won't do that for a funny noise.

I don't think there's any grinding going on. It sounds like fluid moving turbulently. Any automatic transmission stores fluid under pressure in "accumulators" and this is used via small tubes and valves to operate the transmission. I don't know why this is happening in Fits, but it's common. If there were something serious going on, Honda would be doing a recall to change the fluid. The transmission is covered under the 5yr/60K drivetrain warranty.

The Honda recommended service @60k then 30k intervals is for "severe service." If you use the fit as a taxi, carry heavy loads at low speeds, this would put you in this use category. Otherwise I think it's considerably longer until the first drain/fill.

You do the math, the most bang for your buck is the 1st drain/fill giving you 42% of the newer grade DW-1 fluid. Each drain fill is 2.5 quarts out of 6 quarts total (approx). You'll get diminishing results with each subsequent drain/fill.

You'll need ramps or jack stands to do this. Consider the cost of these and know how to safely use them. The drain is simple. You'll need a flat oil collection container to drain the fluid into. You'll need a silly long funnel to do the fill. Follow the owner's manual for checking the level.

Most of the fluid sits in the torque converter and radiator. You need to drive it a few miles (10? 50?) between drain fills to avoid draining just the new fluid you put in.

I wouldn't worry about the noise that much. I think the new fluid performs slightly better. Both reducing the frequency of the noise (I've only heard it once since having it done, and that was the same day so maybe it hadn't "mixed" completely. Shifts are more crisp (less time lag). I only did one drain/fill at the dealer a couple weeks ago at 35K. The next one won't be before 60K. I don't consider my use "severe."

 

Thank you for your post, it was very helpful. I'm not sure if we're talking about the same noise, mine doesn't sound like fluid at all. Sometimes it's a low grumble, sounds like a heat shield rattle, and sometimes it's a higher, shorter grinding sound. Always happens in third gear at just under 2,000 RPMs when it's like the transmission has shifted to third a bit too soon. If I give it more gas at that point, it will downshift. The noise also happens for me regardless of the temperature of the engine.

 

Exactly the time I heard it. Approx 2,000 rpm, light acceleration, shift from 2nd to third and then it happens for about a second. I also characterized it as similar to the sound a heat shield vibrating would make (read back in this thread).

Think about the sound fluid would make being released under pressure. Maybe with some chatter by the valve it's flowing around.

I'm pretty sure we're talking about the same noise. A grinding sound would make you want to park an automatic transmission car and call a tow truck.

Oh and keep the receipts for the fluid. Take pictures of your work. Any warranty issues you can give them these. I don't blame you for being a little concerned. When I did the drain/fill at the dealer I asked them to note the odd noise on the work order so there was a record of it. One drain/fill seems to have cured it for me.

 

Jessh, my advise in terms of cost savings is to be sure you have the right tools, then things are immediately easier.

1) get yourself a case of the fluid.
2) if you want to make things really easier, get yourself a fluid extractor (mityvac 7201) and you can do everything topside.
3) funnels, including a transmission oil funnel (funnel with a tube)
4) drain pan/oil container

As far as the procedure itself, it is as simple as changing the oil, If your dad has done that before then you shouldn't have any problems. Go review the DIY threads for exact procedures. I happen to have a fluid extractor which makes this even easier as I don't need to get under the car.

Now for the procedure, this is anyone's opinion, but my advice is to minimize waste. I would say do one drain/fill, drive around for 10-20minutes or so.
Then evaluate are things the same? improved? or perfect?

If things are only in the same/improved category, then maybe you do one more D/F.

Then I think things are good enough, or you're not going to get much more from another d/f. I think you are done, or can postpone the next d/f to sometime in the future. How long? I would just do it during next oil change until you work your way through the case (3quarts=4 changes). If you're nearer to perfect then maybe 2oil changes down the road.

The reason, is I would give the new fluid a chance to mix well with the other fluid and maybe get some use out of it, rather then just dumping it out after 10-20miles.

Last note is recycle your oil. Most autoparts stores will take any trans fluid in terms of it's fundamental qualities it can be combined and recycled with motor oil.