Issues After Lost Motion Spring Recall
 

I know there's already a long, long thread about the lost motion spring recall, but I want to post some issues in a new thread so they get some visibility. Accessing the valvetrain on the Fit requires removing the black plastic cowling at the base of the windshield, as well as the wipers. We had the recall work done on both of our '09 Fits yesterday, and both have issues with that cowl. I'm posting so others can take a close look at their Fits to ensure you don't have similar issues.

The #1 issue is that the cowl consists of an upper and lower half that appears to snap together with clips molded into the upper part. The first picture shows that one of our Fits now has all of these clips broken and there's a gap between the upper and lower halves of the cowl. That cowl is also the airbox where outside air is drawn in for A/C and ventilation, so the gap means some air from the engine compartment will now get pulled in too (not good!). The second picture shows the other Fit with the clips intact and no gap. There are more clips not shown in the photo. Our "bad" Fit has all clips broken, the "good" one has two broken.

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/9885/brokenclips.jpg

Good Clips:
http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/9867/goodclips.jpg

Issue #2 is that the plastic trim piece at each corner at the base of the windshield is now scratched up on the "good" Fit. The scratches are actually worse than the photo makes them look. There are also some white stains in the photo - that's just car polish residue.

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/490/scratches.jpg

Issue #3 is that a plastic push-button fastener was missing on the "good" Fit. These fasteners have been mentioned in the other recall thread. I actually took a few pictures before the work was done (I never expected I would need them....), so here's a picture of the fastener in question. There's one on each side of the car. I don't have a photo showing the hole with the missing fastener.

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/4338/fastener.jpg

The last issue, also mentioned in the other thread is that the wipers were positioned at slightly different angles after the recall work. Ours were too and I fixed those myself.

I've already contacted the dealer to arrange to get things corrected, and we'll see how that goes. But an equally big concern is that if they did such a poor job on the items I can see, who knows about the quality of the parts of the job I can't see. I can say that the "good" Fit has had a very, very slightly noisy valvetrain since new (it only has 12K miles now), and it's now quieter. I haven't driven the other Fit yet.

I hope these photos will help others know about some things to look for.

(Yes, those are kayaks and windsurfer masts in the first photo, along with a long pole saw made from a windsurfer mast - gotta have toys!)

UPDATE 04/07/2011: The replacement cowls for both Fits came in a few days ago, and we dropped off the Fits at the dealer this evening to have them installed. While there, my wife mentioned that her windshield wiper had been rattling. I checked the wiper pivot point on the drivers side, and it turns out that the whole wiper assembly (motor, arms, linkages, both wipers) seems to be floating around loose. Something wasn't bolted down inside the cowl. Checking the second Fit, everything was tight. So this is yet another problem to be watchful for. FYI, the Fit with the loose wiper assembly is the one with the more badly hacked up cowl. Whoever re-assembled this cowl after the LMS work must have really had his/her mind on something else.

UPDATE 04/09/2011: We picked up the two cars with new cowls yesterday afternoon. Everything looks and works great based on initial inspection. One of the Fits had developed a very, very slight tick-tick sound when running for the first minute or so after a cold start. I asked the dealer to note it and have a trusted tech give it a listen after they had let the car sit overnight. I didn't push for or demand a valve adjustment, but I think the service manager could easily sense that I was a lot more concerned about being able to trust the valve work over the long haul than I was with the visible cowl issues. Anyway, he chose to have his "best tech" do a valve adjustment on both cars and the service write-ups show 1.6 and 1.9 hours for valve adjustment on the two Fits. Both cars sound good, but final judgment will be after the engines have gone through several heat/cool cycles.

Through this process, I've been much more concerned about having confidence in the engine work than the plastic. However, the cowl pieces now show that someone took care to do the job right. The plastic pieces line up nicely and everything is clean and new looking (no car wash though - these Fits only get hand washed). Based on that, plus the dealer redoing the valve adjustment, I no longer have a lingering doubt that the engine work was as much of a hack job as the original cowls and wipers.

This shouldn't have happened in the first place, but I'm happy with the way the service manager handled the issue.

UPDATE 04/09/2011, later that same day....
It's car washing day which led to finding one more thing to watch for. When you open the hood, there are four black rubber bumpers that the hood should rest on when its closed (they look like upside-down rubber stoppers for a flask). I discovered one of those was missing, probably knocked loose by the service tech leaning over the front of the car. Fortunately, it was lying in a recess in the upper grill housing so I could just press it back in place.

In this photo, the bumpers are circled. The one closest to the square was lying in the square:

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/8911/bumperv.jpg

Very informative. Thanks. With issues posted here from you and other owners who had the recall work done, I am a little leery about having it done on mine.

I just took pictures on my Fit in case they do that kind of damage to me.

Very helpful information Ultrawolf! +rep to you.

My 2010 Sport thankfully isn't part of the recall, but this is definitely a useful resource for this forum. Just another reminder to go over your car with a fine-toothed comb before AND after bringing it to the dealer for service.

I'm not liking that gap in the first pic :( . I hope the dealer does right by you.

subscribed...getting mine done next week...have to keep an eye out

I'm just going to take the cowl off before going in. Problem solved.

I will be taking mine in this coming Tuesday,will "forewarn" the service rep that I will be looking for this not to happen with my car!!!

The gap is caused in part by one of the four broken clips being jammed between the upper and lower pieces. I could remove it, but I want the dealer to see it that way.

My wife is bringing her Fit in on the 23rd to have the recall done. I wont be able to have a good look at it until around the 28th. I am hoping AutoFair Honda does a good job in both the recall and the cowling. Don't the techs have step by step instructions on how to do this properly without destroying the cowling???? Ill tell you what...,if Techs are destroying the cowl on doing this work, Honda is going to have a bigger problem replacing all these cowls than with the actual recall. Hers will go right back into the shop for a new cowl

If you delay some to take your car in for the recall, all the techs at each dealer will learn the tricks and correct way to remove and install the plastic without breaking the tabs. Of course that means someone else will be the guinea pig.

I would not accept any of this. Not even the scratches. If they try and mask them with black plastic conditioner don't accept. You will still be able to feel the scratches and after 6-12 months the conditioner will wear off and scratches will re-appear.

_

The scratches are quite deep so there's no way I'll accept any attempt to mask them.

It's too bad the dealer did such a poor job here, because this dealer has been good in other areas. They took good care of me during cash-for-clunkers, including paying me the scrap value on my clunker which many people didn't get. And their service writer, Jay, has been excellent in getting us set up to do both Fits on the same day with a free loaner car to minimize the hassle factor. But the quality of their service work is sure in question now.

Quote for Truth!
If you think you're entitled to a perfect job, do it yourself.
I like you.

ultrawolf for president!

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Actually, now that I think about it, that gap shouldn't be there even with broken clips. In the past when I've broken the clips without repairing them the cowl would still go into place just fine. Usually I get that gap when the two rubber extensions on the side, the ones that slide in right next to the hinge, get hung up. Either that or one of the weak blue clips that keep the cowl attached to the sheet metal under the windshield has broken and is wedged under there. I also don't understand the scratches on the little plastic attachment. I have popped that thing off tens of times and never scratched it. They probably tried to pull it off while the hood was fully open...

Just checked my car; clips are all in place, everything looks clean, but there is a scratch on the top of the cowl, but not terrible enough to bring it in.

what do you personally use to "un-clip" the clips?

wouldn't the honda dudes have a tool specifically for those clips?

The service manual says to detach the clips, 'pull the windshield edge of the cowl cover upward" literraly you just pull up until they pop out, problem is a few always break.

if they can't even put those back in properly... how do you think they did in the engine??? my crosstour that broke a valve and took the shortblock with it is never running right... in and back to service the 4th time in 4 weeks...

just a thought...

lol. wow.

just waiting for someone to post the most annoying cliche used on this forum... "well you bought an econo box, what do you expect?"


btw, my local honda service dept told me they've done between "50 and 100" recall fixes so far. hopefully they're getting good at it.

^^ econo or not... they use cheap clips and plastics... I have more clips and plastics that are broken on my crosstour than on my fit

oooof. yeah. hell, the arm rest on the fit cant stand the pressure of a human arm. no joke. they actually have a service bulletin about it.

that sucks about your crosstour. i feel for ya. i followed that thread you started from the beginning. total aggravation.

But if you break a clip then the cost of a new cowl comes out of your wallet. If Honda breaks a clip they replace the cowl free. Easy decision for me.

And from the sound of it very easy to break a clip. Even the experienced here have acknowledged breaking one.

_

Quick Update
 

I had a chance to drive the second Fit, the one with the most broken clips, and the engine sounds good. So using excessive valvetrain noise noise as the indicator, both Fits have no indications of any issues with the engine work.

Thanks for the heads up! I took a couple pics and video of the car just in case there's any foul up. I'm getting my spring bolts replaced on tuesday. I'm also getting them to look at my rear taillights which have had a problem condensation inside their housing this spring.

AND, worryingly, we've discovered my car is leaking oil. it's a 2009 floor model (sport) bought in August 2009 and it's just reaching 35K on the odometer.

Fortunately, the warranty will be able to cover all this.

Ultrawolf, + reps. That's what I call a constructive post!!!

Anyone who thinks that the solution is that we should remove our own cowls deserves negative reps. It's fine that you're self-sufficient and take that route but that should not be expected from the customer. And if you make a mistake, you eat the cost to replace/fix. That's just wrong when this is warranty work to begin with.

Edit: I just took my iPad down to the garage with this thread open and looked over all the pics vs my car. The dealer did a prefect job! There is absolutely no indication that anyone has worked on that section of the car. I'm still not sure about engine ticking noise. I hear a ticking noise but it sounds normal to me so I need to hear some new fits with their hoods open (in person) to compare. I'm not too worried about it right now so I'll do that when when I get some time. Once I check that off, I will send my dealer a letter to let them know that the job was done perfectly.

nothin - Well put. So much of what we think we hear is based upon thinking we hear something or that there's even something to be heard. It can drive you crazy.... ticking in the engine, what? You and your dealer have a good thing going.

That's fine - negative rep me. haha I was just stating a solution to the potential problem. Of course you shouldn't have to do this, but I'd rather not have to potentially take it back to the dealership. Personally, I probably will take it in, as is, and let them do the work because I have a lot of faith in my dealership, and they are very close by. That's a rare situation, at least, in my experience.

Know-nothin: Thank you for your comments - I've learned a lot from these forums and am glad I can contribute something. I also appreciate your report that your job was done correctly. That gives me ammunition in case my dealer says "there's no way to do the job without breaking the clips", or some other similar nonsense to try to dodge responsibility. I'm going to expect replacement of all damaged pieces, even if that means replacing the whole cowl because of a couple of damaged clips/tabs.

I was kidding about the negative reps and in any case, it was more directed at Lyon. ;) *but seriously, just to be clear, I'm not neg repping anyone. I actually appreciate all these various opinions. *Also, I don't fault anyone for doing it themselves. But I don't think a good answer to dealer incompetence is to expect customers to do the work themselves.*

Thanks Krimson. Yeah, this was a great start with this dealer A+ all the way so far! So I'm keeping my fingers crossed.*

Dude, it's I who thank you for the thread. I had it on my to do list to check out the work more closely and you saved me a bunch of searching for clip placement and such. If you need anything from me (like pics of my cowl), let me know and I'll get them to you.

Edit: ignore the asterisks. Some sort of cut and paste formatting glitch.

true a lot of the materials in the car are really cheap. Arm rest, etc. I guess part of being a cheap car.

Dropped car off and waiting now for my pickup. Took some quick pics of top of cowl and under just for reference. I just want a clean job - something that I have come to expect from Curry Honda in Atlanta. It was also nice that the main tech who drove my car out stopped - came runinng up to me and handed me the wallet I left behind in the pass seat. So far - so good. Will report back later.

Were you testing him? :rotfl:

I was the first one in my area to get it done and my cowl looked just like yours, but I only had one clip broken off. My dealer did an awesome job of taking care of me. They ordered a completely brand new cowl and threw in an oil change for the trouble. Thanks Bob Howard Honda in Edmond.

What about the internal work?
 

This is a good thread, as well as the one it came from. The talk about the problems getting the cowl back properly make me worry a little about the internal work....one part in particular.

(For those who may not have already looked at the service bulletin that the dealers are supposed to be following, there are service manual procedures referenced, rather than repeated in the service bulletin.)

When the technician is about to remove the rocker assembly, ie step 8 in the service bulletin procedure, the manual specifies that all 16 rocker arm adjusting screws are supposed to be loosened first. That takes all uneven stresses off the assembly. Then the 11 bolts holding the rocker assembly are to be loosened by only two turns at a time, and in a certain sequence. The rocker bridge itself is a thin cast material (see it on page 2 and 3 of the service bulletin) and these manual procedures obviously want the technician to treat it verrrrrry carefully.

However....I can easily imagine a technician in a hurry just skipping the part about loosening all 16 of the rocker adjustments, and then just zipping out all 11 of the rocker assembly bolts with an air ratchet....'cause it's a LOT faster that way.

Then when the rocker assembly is bolted back to the head, the manual says for the 11 bolts to get retightened again by only two turns at a time, in a certain sequence. Ten of them wind up with 11 ft-lbs of torque and one is at 7.2 ft-lbs of torque. Then each of the 16 rocker clearances get adjusted. Which means adjusting a few, rotating the engine a little, then adjusting the rest.

However...again I can imagine a tech just zipping all 11 rocker assembly bolts in with an air ratchet. Then maybe checking a few valve clearances ('cause he never loosened the rocker adjusting screws) and calling it done.

I've read about one instance where the rocker bridge was broken "somehow" (ha) and another where the owner was just told that they needed "a part" and it would be a few days before they could get it. I'd guess that was another one.

Anybody else have concerns? Heard of problems? Thnx!

ahck. mine's at the dealership now getting this done.

i hate stealerships.

had ours done over the weekend. no problems yet. I looked around under the hood and couldn't see any obvious damage - just a few fingerprints in the dust.

i think your full post was excellent.

no matter what, there will have to be an element of blind faith going into this, but it would not hurt to mention these concerns with the service writer, as well as expressing awareness of the cowl issue. it might increase the odds of getting the job done right.... as would sticking with the same service writer thru the entire process.

i had an oil change 2 weeks ago, knowing i'd be back soon for the recall. the assistant service manager gave me his card, circled his name and said, "i virtually live here, call me when you're ready for the recall, and any questions you have." i'm going to lean on this dude (in a positive way) as the link between my concerns and the tech actually doing the repair.

people can laugh at excessive caution.... but there's nothing to lose with covering all your bases.

Just got back from dealer and all went well. Only one tab snapped off, but all hardware looks to be in place and no scratches - including the cowl plugs, etc. Tab may have been snapped off when I had my windshield replaced prior by separate vendor.

I am posting my invoice below in case this helps anyone who is going through the process.

Dropped car off at 12 noon and was done by 330pm. Car felt stronger at the low end and a tad quieter. All in all, great experience at Curry Honda - and always has been. Great staff and very up to date tech team.

http://www.thebluepotato.net/fit/fitrecall.jpg

Thanks Ultrawolf for the pics! My cowl is intact, but it looks like the two fasteners on the left and right are missing... I'm guessing it's from the time I had some body work done though. Oh well, I'll pick up the clips from the dealership tomorrow.

Update After Visiting Dealer
 

OK, we convoyed both Fits to the dealer for the service manager to look at. To pave the way for this visit, I called this morning and directed his attention to this Fitfreaks thread. So he knew exactly what to expect. He was duly displeased with the problems and said they would replace cowls and left and right end caps on both cars. He took pictures of the damage. He also offered that they would pick up the cars at our house and leave us loaners when the parts were in.

I asked how I could be sure the valvetrain work was done right when the cowl work was clearly not done well. He said he watched the valvetrain work being done on one Fit because he hadn't seen the recall work done before and wanted to verify the process. He said he can verify that one was done by the book. He said a different service tech did the other car, and that he would have a trusted tech verify proper valve adjusment and torquing of bolts on that one. Short of doing the work myself, that will have to do.

Neither one of us mentioned anything about "customer retention", i.e., some sort of freebie or other compensation for the hassle. I want to focus on getting the cars right first.