another DIY gone wrong....please help!
 

so I decided to do a valve lash adjustment because of a slight tick and because I wanted to learn how to do it....

results: TPMS light on (maybe because I took a wheel off and the battery out?)might go away if I drive it a bit

-airbag light on....not sure why, I'll check all connections
-engine light on..(scanguage still scanning?)
-engine ticking quite loudly now!!!! (too loose, tight?)

oh yeah and a bolt on the valve cover head snapped...my cousin wanted to torque it I asked him if it was set to 7lbs, he said yeah, turned out it was 27lbs...my bad for trusting him.

Tried removing bolt and it was an issue so I put sealant in that corner to help out. good idea/bad idea?

looks like I'll be going to Honda anyway....

update.....airbag light and tpms light went away when I circled the block for a test drive....

engine light comes on and off, and D light flashing.....

any idea what to check or what I may have done?

latest update....unplugged the scanguage then plugged it in after starting the car....no engine lights and the guage came up quick.

only issues are the fact that my engine is louder now (ticking) and corner bolt (by the timing chain) being snapped and the hole threaded....

should I just take it to honda? or man up and try again?

For the snapped bolt, if you remove the cylinder head, can you get at the bolt?

cant really get to the bolt. I tried using a bolt extractor but it ended up hitting the threads a bit also. Not looking good there.

I might have to take it to an independent mechanic to see if they can do it. Worse case scenario, it there a product out there to rethread or at least put another bolt in to hold in place.

I might have to take it all apart again to redo the valves. They are way noisier than before (is that dangerous for the engine?).

Also is it possible the noise will lessen as I drive it? I chose .18m for the intakes and .28 for the exhaust, adjusting them to the point where there was a slight drag as I pulled them out (on the loose side).

Malraux: .18mm and .28mm

Still wrong?

There are numerous sized extractors.. I don't see why you shouldn't just go ahead and remove the bolt yourself It will be one more skill you acquire in case you trust another family member to touch tools and your car at the same time ever again...You want to be able to hear the exhaust valves clicking a little bit because they will wear into the valve seat over a period of time and the valve adjustment gap clearance will close a little.... You are more likely to have a burned exhaust valve from not having enough clearance and that can get costly if the burnt valve punches a hole in the top of a piston.... I need to do my valves tomorrow....

TC: will it get quieter over time?

it is def louder than when yesterday...

Yeah as the exhaust valve seat wears the valve stem will move closer to the rocker arms... While you are still messing with it, it might be to your advantage to check the clearance again with Go No Go feeler gauges. If they are too loose the valves will begin to open slower, close slower than they should and not open quite as wide as they should.. Actually that would extend the cam's degrees of duration a little bit and might even pull a little more full into the combustion chamber during over lap when both intake and exhaust valves are both opened at the beginning of the intake stroke... It is less of a problem if the exhaust are a little loose but do try to set them as close to what is recommended for optimal running and wear.

Not that it seems like a big difference, but you want to go looser on the exhaust side and tigher on the intake side.

.28-.30mm Exhaust side

and .16mm on the Intake

;)

the aftermath
 

so I about to head to home depot to see if they have a t bar hand extractor. My drill bit one pretty much banged into the threads and I'll probably have to repair the threads.

anyone here experienced in thread repair? what is cutting oil? think I can repair this without taking everything out?

I went to the local mechanic hoping they could get it out with little fuss but they want to remove everything including the upper intake and the valve cover...of course they will charge for all that. When a mechanic says its going to be a big job, hide the wallet!!!!

anyway please feel free to chip in if you've been down this road before. I had no idea those valve ccover bolts were so fragile nor the engine head so soft...

I don't see why you shouldn't just go ahead and remove the bolt yourself It will be one more skill you acquire in case you trust another family member to touch tools and your car at the same time ever again...You want to be able to hear the exhaust valves clicking a little bit because they will wear into the valve seat over a period of time and the valve adjustment gap clearance will close a little

Yeah you all are right. Time to man up and try to remove it myself. I need to get proper supplies and may have to try to repair the thread on my own but I hope I can get it right. Time to hit up my local harbor freight and bernardi for supplies.


Meanwhile while my car sounds like a true diesel, it feels better. I pulls smoother, but it could be my imagination.

on another note, thanks to DSM, TC, and Algernon for taking the time out to pass on some advice. Its always appreciated!

Not to sound stupid to you, but you did adjust the valves in 1,3,4,2 order correct and turning each cylinder to TDC prior to adjusting?

555: its ok, you never know.....but yeah I did it by the fit service manual and the DIY posted here.

The gray area and I guess what is referred to as the art is getting the amount of drag right. Most of my intakes grabbed the .18mm lightly so that as i passed the feeler back and forth, there was a grab.

The exhausts on the other hand were tight to the point where I had to loosen them, put the feeler in and then tighten when the amount of drag was felt.

I've driven 80 miles since the adjustment and while the car feels good, it is loud (tickey tack). How long does it take to quiet up? otherwise I may have to do it again, and make the intakes tighter and the exhausts.

If you have a mig welder [or somebody that has one] and can get to the bolt, tack weld a nut [weld inside it] on the broken bolt. Remove right after welding when everything is hot. The best way to extract a broken bolt!

Good luck

I'd rather have a tick than silence. You run the risk of burning up exhaust valve hats when they get quiet/tight.

Yeah DSM, I agree with you. The ticking I'm hearing is tighter than before, especially when easing off the throttle. Honestly I like it.

If I need to remove the valve cover to get this bolt out I'll just go by your recommendations and tighten up the intakes a smidge. Since I allowed a lighter drag when using the .18mm feelers, I guess I went looser.

but I need to focus on the bolt now....I went to an independent shop and the guy declined the job.... recommended tapping the side of the engine when the bolt is and putting wd-40 in the hole in an attempt to get it all penetrated. Then he recommends using a center punch to level out my previous mess and create space for the extractor to work. What do you guys think? He went against the weld idea, but I'll look around for a machine shop just in case

In a moment of weakness this morning I went to Honda. Without looking at it they said they would do a valve adjustment, extract the bolt and repair the threads for just under $500...but of course that'll change when they look at it. Also I would have to wait a week for the valve cover gasket....

so I ended up ordering the gasket, some cowl clips (after removing it like 4 times already they are beat up) some extra valve cover bolts, and some other pending items to maximize shipping ($144 for everything). I'll regroup and probably tackle the thread myself again.

Have you tried something like this? Attach to drill in reverse and once they "bite" it unthreads the bolt. Saved me acouple times at work.
[IMG]http://i643.photobucket.com/albums/u...z/95c5f00c.jpg[/IMG]

Sorry for huge pic

Be advised that the broken bolt you are attempting to remove is a 6mm bolt
less than 1/4" Easy outs have been known to break. If you get them from Harbor
Freight it probably will break. A broken easy out will multiply your problems. I try
to remove broken bolts with a sharp pointed center punch. It usually works unless
the bolt is rather old or bottomed.

Do you know what the exhaust valve clearance was before you adjusted them?
Obviously you didn't get them adjusted right or the they wouldn't be too noisy.
Yes, they will eventually wear down and maybe make a little less noise. Unless
you have some serious problem it probably will take 100k miles for that to happen.

If you continue to try getting the bolt out and destroy the threads you will need to
use a Helicoil or similar thread repair kit.

How to Repair Threads With A Heli-Coil Insert - YouTube

When you get into that kind of repair you have to insure you aren't drilling into a
water jacket. The You tube will explain the process.

The bolts in the valve cover aren't too soft. You have to use torque based on
several factors, including bolt size, material it's installed in.

Not to be rude, I suggest you take up your dealers offer to fix it. That may turn out
being the least costly way to get out of the hole you are in.

I have been messing around with car repairs over 60 years and sometimes you
have to let someone else get you out of let hole.

In any case, good luck, whatever course you take.

Clifton

a vid of my engine post-valve adjustment
 

Here is a link for a vid I made this morning to record the engine sounds. I've driven it 200 miles since the weekend:

VID-20120321-00026.3GP - YouTube


How does it sound to you? keep in mind my engine has 80150...

also you can see the bolt the broke....I was hoping to extract it at a dealership without them having to take apart everything on top of the Valve cover but no dice....

I am still waiting for my parts to come in but Clifton I wanted to thank you for the advice and for informing me of the bolt size. Bernardi doesnt have its size listed and I need to know this for the thread repair.

I am going helicoil but what size should I use the smallest coils I found at Harbour freight was 13 which I assume are threads for 12mm bolts?!?! I am new to thread tapping...

I saw the video though and it looks straight forward. Definately do not want to drill deep since the threads on the bolt were short. Will practice on some junk at first....

After hearing your video I'm positive your valves are much too loose. That clatter is
not normal and that noise will not clear up. If it's not corrected I believe you will
eventually have excessive wear on the valve components.

You said you set the valves on .18mm and .28mm. I don't know what type feeler
gauge you used, but metric gauges are not too common in the USA, most are
marked thousandths of an inch. Are you in Canada?

The valve cover needs to removed again to fix the problem. I suspect you
actually adjusted your valves to .018 in. not .18 mm. intake and .028 in. not .28
mm. exhaust. That would cause the clatter I heard from your video. The engine
would feel to run a little better in local driving because the increased clearances
make you cam appear to have a smaller duration. Good for low end but bad for
top end.

Clifton

Clifton-

After you last post I went to the basement and confirmed its metric and the sizes I put in were .18mm (intake), .28mm (exhaust).

I believe I may have left the exhaust a bit on the loose side (light drag, little effort to slide it back and forth).

A adjusted two intake valves but perhaps I made these too loose also. My feeler set did not have a .16mm gauge so I'll have to look around for another one or perhaps go tight on the .18mm I have (more effort to slide out).

I'll be taking it apart again this weekend to see.

A lot of people will mince words and not tell you like it is
 

Part of being mechanically inclined suggests that if you find something that far out of adjustment then you need to check your method again! The bolt extraction with r/r of the valve cover should have been a piece of cake. Between the noise and the array of warning lights, I think the car was screaming for you to stay away.

This kind of experience should make you put down the tools and walk away from all things mechanical. :rotfl:

HAAHAHAHA man I'm just keeping it real because everyone it throwing you softballs. I know you can take it like a man. Hurry up and fix it right.
Do you know exactly where you went wrong?

Its all good....I've been on these boards long enough and am surprised it took so long to get toasted a bit....

I ended up taking it to honda, tired of how long and drawn out this is getting plus some other issues I would like to resolve.

I learned some valuable lessons from the experience though...sucks I gotta cough up just under $500 to learn it though....

I adjusted my valves last week and had the same problem. One of the holes where the bolt goes in the head was stripped out and another bolt snapped off on the first turn. I put gasket sealer in the broken one, no problem, but the one that my neighbor made a new bolt for is leaking oil. So now I have to take it apart again as well. So my question is... what’s the best re-thread kit I should buy?

You could always rethread it to a larger bolt or you could put an insert in. I've used timeserts for drain bolts; one of those or a helicoil might be a better option for you than retapping to a larger bolt size.

Thanx so much for the advice, i solved the problem... For now anyway, if it doesn't hold, I'll be back with questions. Lol. Thanx again.

Stick with it, Santiad :D
I'd still like to know what exactly went awry for you with this job. If it was an issue torquing the nuts to secure valve lash, something left disconnected elsewhere, whatever. Don't let it discourage yuh though. I've caused thousands of bucks in damage over the years, broke some bones, lost some meat, and nearly killed a few dudes! It's been a wild ride :popc: