Pilots and Ridgelines are great sellers here. We see them on the road all the time so I doubt Honda would cut them out. I the Civic definitely needs a major rework. IMO the newest iteration is a step backwards. The CRZ could have been a huge hit if they hadn't gone the eco hybrid route and stuck to a fun sporty two seater with pep.

 

I rarely see either of them, and in my mind, that is a market that should go away soon. They're dynamically, ergonomically, economically inferior to minivans and more money; if only middle aged women would realize that they don't look cooler driving a Pilot than they do driving a minivan.

 

Hey excellent job with that writeup. I like it a lot.

I don't agree with 100% of it and I'll tell you below. But keep in mind that I do, in fact, fully agree with 90% of it

1. Eliminating the Civic is a poor choice because of the brand equity. But it needs a major rework. I expect probably they'll baseline the next gen on the Elantra, which is a mistake because it would be better to do a clean-sheet, customer focused rethink and actually addresses some of the core attributes you listed: usability, fun to drive, efficient. Personally, I think it needs the wheels pushed back out, some intelligent packaging, interior ergonomic work, trim lines that actually go up in visual appeal (like the Fit!). It doesn't have to be a supercar, but it needs some appeal to the driver in the traditional Honda buyer - and it needs to evenly split the difference between the tiny Fit and the large Accord, not try to bridge that ENTIRE gap with multiple trim lines. Oh, similar to this - they should probably offer the sedan version of the Fit.

2. The Pilot is a big, profitable seller. I don't like it either, but I think maybe some treatment along the lines of what you suggest for the Odyssey could work; or could an enhanced focus on ruggedness and maybe some sponsored expedition marketing. The latter I think they could DO, but currently mgmt is too unfocused to do it with conviction. As a manager I would not eliminate my full-size SUV ... sorry.

3. A lot of what you suggest, you'll be happy to know (and probably already do) Honda is doing

4. Several people (not Mike) have said the Accord is a luxo-barge. I encourage you to drive it first. The Accord is certainly big, but it has an extremely fine sensation of control and stability which is very, very rare in that class of car. The car can be big and still have a nod to the driver. It's not easily perceived by many buyers, but I think it's an unconscious factor that keeps the car desirable despite it being out of date in many ways. In case people are curious, take a look at some of its competitors and see how many of them offer double-wishbone front suspension.

More later maybe

 

Imo consumers are partly to blame: Honda releases great cars that get overlooked time and time again when new, but then are sought after in the used market ( del sol, civic hatchbacks, old crv, elements, fits (?)

 

A good friend of mine had an Accord 6-6 coupe and I will say:

1. Pretty damn fast for what it is.
2. Handles like garbage (ridiculous understeer! Maybe just tires?)

I would say it was a fun car though for freeways and cruising around town. Suprised the hell out of quite a few "Golden Era" tuners w/ boost @ stoplights

Accord R = TSX, so I guess the next car I want is technically an Accord

There's a TON of Pilots and Elements out here, but I hardly ever see Ridgelines. That was a strange move for Honda (the Ridgeline).

 

I agree on the Civic nametag. Sort of like Ford, when they dropped th eTaurus name. They made a big mistake, and re-introduced it. Redo the Civic, but keep the name. The Accord, while it is a competent driver, LOOKS like a barge. Put a Buick symbol on it, and the Sun City crowd would fall all over it. CR-V is great, the CRZ COULD have been a great one had they not gone the eco rout and ruined it. It looks like a sports car, make it one. If they have to have a greenie option, fine, but give it the performance it deserves.

 

Consumers can't be to blame. It is up to the manufacturers to give the consumers what they want. NOT what the manufacturer wants.

 

I agree with everything Mike said except getting rid of the Civic.

I don't think the Civic needs to go completely, but I do think the Fit and Civic should be more inline. They should share the same engines and chassis. Don;t make the fit bigger either. Bring the civic to the fit size, but with a trunk. Basically, the Fit would be the hatchback version of the Civic. (Kind of is already)

That's is exactly what Toyota does with the Corolla and Matrix.

 

Now if only Honda read this site the way GM does the sites for their cars. They actually read, respond and are members.

 

Honda is just doing what the rest of the car manufacturers are doing offering bland line ups to the USA. Blame on US designers. Ford in Europe had the Focus ST for years, offers 2dr version of the Fiesta with even a diesel engine. All the manufacturers offer station wagons in Eurpoe with high performance versions. VW has the Scirocco and the GTD (the GTI diesel). Gm has the Cruze station wagon. Also here is the Europe version of the Civic New Honda Civic | Test Drive & Specifications | Honda( UK)

 

Ok, then explain: FR-S, Miata, Camaro, Mustang, Veloster...not really performance but not bland, either. Nissan Z, Cooper, BMW, Abarth...Honda...????????

 

Don't forget Honda already eliminated the civic in japan. At this point the civicc we get is a us only deal. That's why I say kill it. If Honda japan makes one I say give us the same one.

 

Didn't know they killed it elsewhere.

 

I have to clarify something based on a comment. I have not driven the V6 accord. I have read the extra weight does create a very heavy, understeering feeling. I recommend the 4. It still has forward weight distribution, but it does not feel greatly unbalanced.

 

A guy on one of my other forums used to have an ITR and he loves his wife's 6-6 Coupe.

 

Well the one I drove had stock suspension and OEM tires, and if the OEM tires on the Fit are any indication of the tires the Accord came with, that would explain my experience

 

OEM tires.....Welp.

I'm not going to lie, I preferred my car on cheap allseasons to the S.Drives on my old Advans.

 

Truest words ever spoken

 

What was the definitive answer on the discontinuing of the element? I see a ton of them around here, the car is a exercise in pure utilitarianism. Albeit hideous, but other than wrapping paper there are only so many ways to dress up a box.

 

Honda Element to end production after the 2011 model year - Dec. 10, 2010

Sales down to 14k units a year.